Oppo Releases New DV-970HD DVD Player for $149!

[Nomo]

Nope, doesn't play HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray. Says so on the Oppo website.

It does seem kinda weird that they would name the player with "HD" at the end of it -- sorta invites confusion. Maybe they just want people to think that their standard DVDs will look like HD by using this player.

cheers,
supervij

Oh Crap!
I was thinking this was a HD-DVD player. That's what I get for not reading closely.

 

[j_garcia]

These guys are 10 min from me. Maybe I'll have to see if they'll do a side by side for me...

Based on what they said about the 971 performing better, I may reconsider going with the new one.

This player was mentioned a while ago in a discussion here (I don't remember where) but Oppo had said months ago that they would be coming out with a lower cost HDMI player that would be a lower model than the 971. They also mentioned either a replacement for the 971 or a higher model than the 971 I believe.

 

[WndrBr3d]

I'm actually really curious to see information on the video processor and the changes that have been made to the internal circuits (audio, whatnot).

The most interesting tidbit about the video processor is that it wont output any signal over 480p via component if the disc being played is encrypted with CSS (as most all commercial DVDs are).

Think you guys could at least leak us the video processor model # before you write the article??

 

[Audioholics]

These guys are 10 min from me. Maybe I'll have to see if they'll do a side by side for me...

Well either way you can know that I'll do it for you.

 

[Matt1976]

New OPPO intended to be 480i transport

My understanding of the purpose of the new OPPO was that it was an inexpensive HDMI 480i transport (hence the lack of the DCDi chip). Previously only the Pioneer Elite and the Arcam DVD players had a 480i HDMI out (which is what you really want if you are using one of the new Video Scalers on the market). I think that the 971 will still offer superior performance if you are not using an outboard scaler. However, the pictures I've seen of DVD performance using an HQV or Gennum scaler with a 480i HDMI DVD player are enough to make me wait a while to go to Blu Ray or HDDVD.

 

[westcott]

Well either way you can know that I'll do it for you.

Clint,

Any specualtion as to why Oppo Digital felt it needed to produce a cheaper product?

It really seems like a step in the wrong direction to go without a Genesis video deinterlacer. After all, IMO, that is what put them at the top of the market heap in the first place.

The marketing confusion only adds fuel to the fire as I am sure many will buy this player thinking it performs as well or better than the OPDV971H.

Why go to all the trouble of building a different unit when your existing player is nothing short of amazing in its feature sets, price and performance? Why not just slap an HDMI connection on the OPDV971H, fix the 480p problem via component output, and add all the features that were released with DV-970HD?

This outfit really is on the technical leading edge of DVD technology and I applaud them, but I think it is time they hire some marketing professionals to take them to the next level.

 

[ned]

My understanding of the purpose of the new OPPO was that it was an inexpensive HDMI 480i transport (hence the lack of the DCDi chip). Previously only the Pioneer Elite and the Arcam DVD players had a 480i HDMI out (which is what you really want if you are using one of the new Video Scalers on the market). I think that the 971 will still offer superior performance if you are not using an outboard scaler. However, the pictures I've seen of DVD performance using an HQV or Gennum scaler with a 480i HDMI DVD player are enough to make me wait a while to go to Blu Ray or HDDVD.

There are other DVD players that does 480i HDMI like Sony 975 and Pio 6xx. How clean or unmolested the signal path it provides is another question, hopefully Oppo 970HD will prove to be such.

Using an outboard scaler on a properly calibrated equipment can get you to est. 90% of HD-DVD. Beside the fact broadcasting source (both SD and HD) that which outboard scaler will provides significant PQ improvement. If you have a huge SD DVD collection, use DVD changer, aspect ratio control, it might be a good investment as well. Even with my Toshiba HD_DVD player, an outboard scaler still provide significant improvement in overall PQ.

 

[WndrBr3d]

I don't think this is an accurate assessment of the market.

Almost every mid to high-end next-gen receiver will include some form of video up scaling to 1080i from any input. Even if your receiver doesn't support video up scaling, most new monitors and projectors do. So why should Oppo put the cart before the horse? If their player can provide the scaler with a clean 480i signal, then it can be scaled by a scaling component to an even higher quality picture.

Honestly, I think it's an interesting move on their part as well, but very calculated. This will give the Oppo player a great niche market and will be a great player for people to bundle into their new system upgrades.

What about people who don't have any video scaling equipment but have HD televisions? For those people, Oppo will provide a decent option, probably no different than what's currently provided by Digital Cable Boxes or next-gen game consoles.

For a price of $149, to me, that’s one hell of a deal for a DVD player that can fit both roles.

I'm actually excited to see a shift in this direction, where a system would have one universal scaler (in the Receiver or through another component) instead of each component itself having it's own scaler. What this does is lowers your cost-per-component and also gives you more avenues to upgrade your system at a reasonable price.

 

[j_garcia]

Well either way you can know that I'll do it for you.

Thanks. I think I'll let you tackle this one for now

 

[LEVESQUE]

Honestly, I think it's an interesting move on their part as well, but very calculated. This will give the Oppo player a great niche market and will be a great player for people to bundle into their new system upgrades.

Exactly. The niche maket is the external scaler crowd. The 970HD is a "specialized" product. The 970HD is not a replacement for the 971H. If both are used as stand-alone players the 971H is a better player.

BUT! If you have a scaler (using the newer chips like Gennum VXP, Realta HQV, NSC) then the 970HD is the player to get.

Sadly, there is already alot of confusion on the net. People are ordering the 970HD to replace the 971H for a stand-alone player, but they will be disappointed. They should not.

The goal here was to provide a cheaper alternative to SDI modding of a player by providing a clean 480i over HDMI output for external scalers, or for the newer outboard de-interlacing and scaling solutions accepting 480i over HDMI.

It's sad, because we will soon read things like that on the net:" my 971 is better then my 970HD! My god! What's that!", when it's totally and perfectly normal...

If you have better outboard de-interlacing and scaling, then the 970HD is for you. But if you want a stand-alone player with good internal de-interlacing and scaling, then you need the 971.

 

[westcott]

I don't think this is an accurate assessment of the market.

Almost every mid to high-end next-gen receiver will include some form of video up scaling to 1080i from any input. Even if your receiver doesn't support video up scaling, most new monitors and projectors do. So why should Oppo put the cart before the horse? If their player can provide the scaler with a clean 480i signal, then it can be scaled by a scaling component to an even higher quality picture.

I see what you are saying but in order for a display to provide the best possible picture quality, it must receive a clean video signal. The Genesis chip is regarded as one of the best, if not the best, deinterlacer on the market. This is what makes the picture quality so pristine before the 480p signal is
upscaled to 720p or 1080i\p by the display to fit its native aspect ratio. It is this chip and Oppo's implemetation of this chip that made it a market success and one of the best performing DVD players at any price!

I would have been happy to pay $250 for a unit with the changes I mentioned that outperforms other DVD players video performance costing thousands more!

 

[j_garcia]

I see what you are saying but in order for a display to provide the best possible picture quality, it must receive a clean video signal. The Genesis chip is regarded as one of the best, if not the best, deinterlacer on the market. This is what makes the picture quality so pristine before the 480p signal is
upscaled to 720p or 1080i\p by the display to fit its native aspect ratio. It is this chip and Oppo's implemetation of this chip that made it a market success and one of the best performing DVD players at any price!

I would have been happy to pay $250 for a unit with the changes I mentioned that outperforms other DVD players video performance costing thousands more!

As has already been mentioned, the 970 was not designed to replace the 971. they are intended for different purposes. If you use the display's upscaling or an external scaler you don't need to feed it a 480p signal, which means the Faroudja deinterlacing becomes unnecessary - also reducing cost. Basically, if someone is looking for a stand alone player that feeds an already upscaled image, then the 971 is the one they want because of the DCDi.

 

[GlocksRock]

My jaw dropped when you said the HDMI cable was included. Wow! They may be taking a bite out of HD-DVD and Blu-ray sales by pricing this unit so favorably. Any chance for a review?

Why is that such a big deal, when a good quality HDMI cable can be bought on ebay for dirt cheap... I mean, the original OPPO inculded a DVD-HDMI cable, so why is this so surprising to you?

 

[LEVESQUE]

The Genesis chip is regarded as one of the best, if not the best, deinterlacer on the market. This is what makes the picture quality so pristine before the 480p signal is upscaled to 720p or 1080i\p by the display to fit its native aspect ratio.

Not true anymore. Genesis/Faroudja is far behind Gennum VXP, Realta HQV and the new NSC chips when dealing with 1080i signals. Owners of scalers using those new chips are the "niche" market for the 970HD.

Those new chips can do everything the Faroudja chips are doing for 480i, but they can also do inverse telecine and per-pixel motion adaptive de-interlacing, and frame-rate conversion, with a 1080i signal. Something the "old" Faroudja 23xx and Sil504 chips can't do.

For example: the Anthem D2 (Gennum VXP), Vantage HD (Realta HQV), Algolith Dragonfly (Realta HQV), Crystalio II (Gennum VXP), Lumagen Radiance (Realta HQV)... and more coming... And also some projectors that are now integrating those new chips: Marantz S4, upcoming Optoma 1080p, Cinetron HD900... etc...

Owners of those high-end scalers and projectors are the people that will buy the 970HD to get clean 480i over HDMI for cheap. We don't want any Faroudja chip in the video chain near us!

For example, with the new HD-DVD players from Toshiba, those new chips are a must to treat both 1080i and 480i, and also avoiding doing "bob" (and losing resolution) with 1080i. Also, DCDi does not work with 1080i, but the Gennum and Realta chips are doing the same processing BUT for 1080i also.

 

[westcott]

Not true anymore. Genesis/Faroudja is far behind Gennum VXP, Realta HQV and the new NSC chips when dealing with 1080i signals. Owners of scalers using those new chips are the "niche" market for the 970HD.

Those new chips can do everything the Faroudja chips are doing for 480i, but they can also do inverse telecine and per-pixel motion adaptive de-interlacing, and frame-rate conversion, with a 1080i signal. Something the "old" Faroudja 23xx and Sil504 chips can't do.

For example: the Anthem D2 (Gennum VXP), Vantage HD (Realta HQV), Algolith Dragonfly (Realta HQV), Crystalio II (Gennum VXP), Lumagen Radiance (Realta HQV)... and more coming... And also some projectors that are now integrating those new chips: Marantz S4, upcoming Optoma 1080p, Cinetron HD900... etc...

Owners of those high-end scalers and projectors are the people that will buy the 970HD to get clean 480i over HDMI for cheap.

With the new HD-DVD players from Toshiba, those new chips are a must to treat both 1080i and 480i, and avoiding doing "bob" (and loosing resolution) with 1080i. Also, DCDi does not apply with 1080i, but the Gennum and realta chips are doing it for 1080i also.

Come on. You know what I meant. You are not going to find a Realta HQV based on the Teranex video processor in a $150 DVD player. The original video chip they produced cost $60,000!!!!!

 

[westcott]

As has already been mentioned, the 970 was not designed to replace the 971. they are intended for different purposes. If you use the display's upscaling or an external scaler you don't need to feed it a 480p signal, which means the Faroudja deinterlacing becomes unnecessary - also reducing cost. Basically, if someone is looking for a stand alone player that feeds an already upscaled image, then the 971 is the one they want because of the DCDi.

People with scalers in their video setup are in the vast minority. Most people buy a DVD player for its video performance and deinterlacing is VERY important. You keep using the word scaling and deinterlacing interchangeably and that is a fact farthest from the truth. Scaling is the easy part, producting a qaulity video picture free of NTSC interlacing artifacts is the difficult part and that is what made Oppo such a hit in the video world.

I, like many others, have not had the privelage of a private conversation with Oppo or seen their marketing material so what position the new player is designed for is not common knowledge. If a statement is made in their marketing literature that states it is a product produced specifically for a small minority of scaler owners, I will withdraw my statements. Somehow, I just do not think this is the case, no matter how strong of an arguement you make for this "niche" market.

Why?
There is little profit in low volume sales at high volume prices.

 

[Rex]

Can anyone tell me what advantage if any this player would have say, over the Samsung HD860/960?

 

[westcott]

Can anyone tell me what advantage if any this player would have say, over the Samsung HD860/960?

Samsung has never been known for putting a lot of R&D into the video processors they acquire for even their most expensive DVD players.

The possible advantages of the Oppo over the Samsung would be:

Faster Layer Changes
Less Image Cropping
Better Synchronization of Subtitles to Frames
Better 2-2 Cadence, Film Flag recognition
Minimal YC Delay
Better Deinterlacing

It's a shame because Samsung starts with some good mpeg and deinterlacer video processors in their equipment.

 

[j_garcia]

People with scalers in their video setup are in the vast minority. Most people buy a DVD player for its video performance and deinterlacing is VERY important. You keep using the word scaling and deinterlacing interchangeably and that is a fact farthest from the truth. Scaling is the easy part, producting a qaulity video picture free of NTSC interlacing artifacts is the difficult part and that is what made Oppo such a hit in the video world.

I, like many others, have not had the privelage of a private conversation with Oppo or seen their marketing material so what position the new player is designed for is not common knowledge. If a statement is made in their marketing literature that states it is a product produced specifically for a small minority of scaler owners, I will withdraw my statements. Somehow, I just do not think this is the case, no matter how strong of an arguement you make for this "niche" market.

Why?
There is little profit in low volume sales at high volume prices.

They didn't say the player was intended ONLY for those who have scalers, however earlier in the thread there was a quote directly from them that stated it IS a lower model and that it would not perform as well as the 971H as a stand alone player. I'm not sure what you are getting at since both players will be on the market - the 971 does not go away.

Can anyone tell me what advantage if any this player would have say, over the Samsung HD860/960?

If you take a look at Secrets, most of the Samsung players tested have not done particularly well. Their higher scoring models were still not highly recommended by the reviewers.

 

[LEVESQUE]

Come on. You know what I meant. You are not going to find a Realta HQV based on the Teranex video processor in a $150 DVD player. The original video chip they produced cost $60,000!!!!!

Relax... Were you sleeping under a rock lately? The Denon 5910 is using the Realta Chip for less then 2500$ for more then 1 year already, and the 2 upcoming Denon players this fall will both use the Realta chip also for half the price of the 5910...

There is already some Realta scalers under 2000$.

We use those scalers with 480i over HDMI players, just like the new Oppo 970HD. It's then only a digital transport for the scaler. At 149$, that's the only think we want from the Oppo player. Pure signal to reach the scaler.