Oppo BDP-83 Universal Blu-ray Player Review

[PENG]

Well, I completely get people's budget situations, but I don't personally think that $499 falls into the "money is no object" category. But I understand that there's always a maximum cap to spend -- heck, if I didn't get this player for the holidays, I would not have been able to buy one ANY more expensive than the Oppo.

I guess it is my turn to be misunderstood (you know how that feel right?). $499 is in many cases not a money no object thing except when one has already owned 3 BD+1PS3+2HDDVD+1XDE500+1Denon Universal (meaning I would be looking at the 83E for $899) and have to consider WAF as well.

Here is my take on the 83:

1. Top notch upscaling - Its DVD upscaling is unbeatable according to synthetic test results but in real world as many reported unless you have a 3 digit size screen you may not noticed a difference between it and a player such as those fitted with the Reon, or some Pioneer Elite models (just for examples) that are currently available at less than $250 or the non Elite model BDP320 frequently found for under $150. Ask jostenmeat and he may tell you if you have a triple digit sized screen you shouldn't be bothering with DVDs anyway regardless of how good your player is as the PQ will be 'unwatchable' relative to that of BR's.

2. BR PQ - Their BR PQ has got to be top notch based on professional and owner's reviews, but in real world movies watching you will likely be just as happy with a PS3 (brand new untouched by kids) in a side by side test when you cannot see which player is playiing. I have not done this myself so take this as just a hearsay thing.

3. SACD/DVDA factor - If I do not already have a DVD3910 I would have bite the bullet and bought the 83E because in that case it would have been eas(ier) to justify the spending to get around the WAF. For those who needs to play SACD/DVDA I see no logic to go with the plain 83, what is the point to worry about the presumably higher audio quality of those formats if you are going to play them on an entry level player (I mean the audio side). I mean even some PS3 can do it for you if it is just for the sake of SACD capability.

4. Speed king - Only several months ago, the 83 apparently was the fastest player. To many people that is a big plus and could well worth the premium on this count alone.

5. Near silent - Last but not least, the 83 was also reportedly one of the quietest player. This is critical for people who intend to use it for music enjoyment, but again in that case people should spend the extra $400 and get the 83SE. Of all my players I found the BDP-320 quiet enough to the point I enjoy BR music more so than I do with SACD on the 6 to 10 times more expensive Denon 3910. The XDE is also quiet but for movies it matters not much. The PS3 is far too noisy for anything other than movies.

To conclude, I wish Oppo would be brave enough to try marketing a $299 BD player that offers the same BR/DVD PQ, speed and low noise performance as the 83. In my opinion the 80 is a disaster. I understand it is good in speed and noise but not as good as it's brother in SQ and PQ so what the heck is the point to pay $399 unless speed king is a pre-requisite to you.

 

[PENG]

it was always suggested to me that first of all, the '83's noise reduction system uses a mosquito type reduction which does nothing for background compression and block noise, and secondly, the Anchor Bay chipset wasn't designed, at all, to "improve" the look of any video -- Oppo actually told me that if this is something I was after, I would need to look to products that carry the Realta/Reon or Genumm processors because these components can actually tweak the look of poor standard definition material (and HD material) to get rid of grain noise, macroblocking, compression artifacts and a slew of other problems.

Wow, I can't believe they actually tell you such things, talk about honesty these days. Oppo has got to be owned by engineers and not MBAs (just kidding)!

When I got that kind of feedback from the company, I was worried that I had indeed made the wrong decision on going with a new player which carried the Anchor Bay chip, and that if I wanted aggressive application of video controls and, more importantly, noise reduction, I should have looked at players with the Reon or Realta processors. The problem is, I know these applications, as seen in many of Denon's higher end stuff, are normally FAR from affordable.

Since you can live with slower speed you may want to try out a BDP-320 for under $200. If you google it you will find lots of reviews on this player. By the way you mentioned the XDE-500 and I can tell you if you think the upscaling PQ of the 83 is ''overhyped then the claims about the XDE's not so good PQ are nothing short of 'underhyped'. I read a quite reviews on that player and I couldn't help but think that the reviewers could well be biased against Toshiba, and in a way I don't blame them as it was clear at the time that BDPs were becoming more and more popular following each major price drops. I only bought the XDE because I have already acquired a good numbers of DVDs and do not want to wear down my HD players playing them. At today prices of most BD players, I wouldn't have bothered, no matter how cheap and/or how good the XDE is. It was selling for less than $100 at the time when I paid 3 times that for my first BDP.

I compared the XDE to my Reon equipped Samsung and the BDP-320 (not sure what processor is in it) enough times to know the XDE would win most of the times. That being said, if you want minimum grain then I would go for the Reon equipped players or the Pioneer BDP-320 (or the higher Elite models). The XDE produces slightly sharper PQ, but also slightly less smooth than the Samsung and the Pioneer. To me picture sharpness (perceived higher resolution) is more important to me than smoothness (less grainy), so overall I prefer to use the XDE for DVDs and save my HD players strictly for BR's.

 

[j_garcia]

2. BR PQ - Their BR PQ has got to be top notch based on professional and owner's reviews, but in real world movies watching you will likely be just as happy with a PS3 (brand new untouched by kids) in a side by side test when you cannot see which player is playiing. I have not done this myself so take this as just a hearsay thing.

I have and I don't think anyone would notice the difference.

3. SACD/DVDA factor - If I do not already have a DVD3910 I would have bite the bullet and bought the 83E because in that case it would have been eas(ier) to justify the spending to get around the WAF. For those who needs to play SACD/DVDA I see no logic to go with the plain 83, what is the point to worry about the presumably higher audio quality of those formats if you are going to play them on an entry level player (I mean the audio side). I mean even some PS3 can do it for you if it is just for the sake of SACD capability.

You can't play DVD-A MLP tracks on a PS3 or any other Sony player; only the dts tracks.

4. Speed king - Only several months ago, the 83 apparently was the fastest player. To many people that is a big plus and could well worth the premium on this count alone.

I would never buy a player based on loading time, but it IS fast.

5. Near silent - Last but not least, the 83 was also reportedly one of the quietest player. This is critical for people who intend to use it for music enjoyment, but again in that case people should spend the extra $400 and get the 83SE. Of all my players I found the BDP-320 quiet enough to the point I enjoy BR music more so than I do with SACD on the 6 to 10 times more expensive Denon 3910. The XDE is also quiet but for movies it matters not much. The PS3 is far too noisy for anything other than movies.

Quiet in terms of noise from the unit itself physically or during playback the noise floor of the unit?

I compared the XDE to my Reon equipped Samsung and the BDP-320 (not sure what processor is in it) enough times to know the XDE would win most of the times. That being said, if you want minimum grain then I would go for the Reon equipped players or the Pioneer BDP-320 (or the higher Elite models). The XDE produces slightly sharper PQ, but also slightly less smooth than the Samsung and the Pioneer. To me picture sharpness (perceived higher resolution) is more important to me than smoothness (less grainy), so overall I prefer to use the XDE for DVDs and save my HD players strictly for BR's.

While the REON players are supposed to do a better job at "cleaning up" a poor image, I've also heard this results in a softer picture as well (expected as a result of the "cleaning"). Some prefer this softer image and others feel that ABT gives better general results, though as noted, it doesn't "clean up".

What I have been getting at all along is, I am not sure why this is a question at all? If you guys aren't satisfied with the quality of upscaling from the best players on the market, why would one say "the player is overhyped"? I bought my 83 before there were any reviews of it, so it wasn't based on hype. I had 3 upscaling players at the time, and as mentioned, the 83 easily bested them. It isn't a night and day difference, but it IS noticeable. When you have a player that is good, the buzz/hype will tend to get a bit blown out of proportion, but I don't see where there has been a frenzy over this player touting it as the best thing since sliced bread. It is an excellent player and receives great reviews not simply based on its upscaling, but because it does a LOT of things very well.

The single reason why I bought one was because I wanted one box to replace 2 or 3 and I was concerned that one unit could not do it. I was pleasantly surprised that it could.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I guess it is my turn to be misunderstood (you know how that feel right?).

Indeed, PENG. I do. But I respect your attempt at explaining yourself, so I will continue reading your post below...

$499 is in many cases not a money no object thing except when one has already owned 3 BD+1PS3+2HDDVD+1XDE500+1Denon Universal (meaning I would be looking at the 83E for $899) and have to consider WAF as well.

I suppose this makes sense. I was just taking the standpoint of the actual price of $499 not "seeming" like it's part of a "price is no object" genre of gear. That I would reserve for a company I recently wrote a magazine article on, Loimanchay Audio, which offers speakers in the $150-$200K range per pair.

Here is my take on the 83:

1. Top notch upscaling - Its DVD upscaling is unbeatable according to synthetic test results but in real world as many reported unless you have a 3 digit size screen you may not noticed a difference between it and a player such as those fitted with the Reon, or some Pioneer Elite models (just for examples) that are currently available at less than $250 or the non Elite model BDP320 frequently found for under $150. Ask jostenmeat and he may tell you if you have a triple digit sized screen you shouldn't be bothering with DVDs anyway regardless of how good your player is as the PQ will be 'unwatchable' relative to that of BR's.

Okay, I am trying to follow you here, but can you make some elements a bit more clear for me? Do you mean there should be no difference between a player fitted with a Reon processor and one with the ABT solution, as the 83?

I understand the tests have reported "unbeatable" by just about every single editorial outlet and online reviewer on planet Earth; heck, it's why I wanted one. But in real world testing, I am finding much of what you outline above, that there doesn't seem to be THAT kind of wildly "better" processing or upscaling going on with the Oppo compared to what I've seen before it. Perhaps this WOULD change with a triple-digit front projection setup (inches wise I mean for the screen) but there would be absolutely no way for me to test that because I am not in any financial situation to indulge in that now, or in the near future whatsoever.

2. BR PQ - Their BR PQ has got to be top notch based on professional and owner's reviews, but in real world movies watching you will likely be just as happy with a PS3 (brand new untouched by kids) in a side by side test when you cannot see which player is playiing. I have not done this myself so take this as just a hearsay thing.

Agreed; I mean, coming from my Panasonic DMP-BD10A, the Oppo's Blu-ray playback is about the same, which is to say, once again, REALLY GOOD BD transfers will look "really good" and grainy, poorly mastered ones won't. If I look REALLY closely, there may be a VERY VERY SLIGHT improvement on BD playback on the BDP-83 compared to the Panny, but I wouldn't even know how to categorize what I'm seeing...perhaps better detail, or fluid motion, perhaps more depth of field?

3. SACD/DVDA factor - If I do not already have a DVD3910 I would have bite the bullet and bought the 83E because in that case it would have been eas(ier) to justify the spending to get around the WAF. For those who needs to play SACD/DVDA I see no logic to go with the plain 83, what is the point to worry about the presumably higher audio quality of those formats if you are going to play them on an entry level player (I mean the audio side). I mean even some PS3 can do it for you if it is just for the sake of SACD capability.

I didn't buy into either of these formats, so I cannot comment; I'm still a CD guy. If there was an Oppo model I could have bought that DIDN'T play SACD and DVD Audio for less money than the 83 cost, I would have gone for it (although this player was a gift, so...).

4. Speed king - Only several months ago, the 83 apparently was the fastest player. To many people that is a big plus and could well worth the premium on this count alone.

Now, THIS is one area in which I am in TOTAL agreement with regard to Oppo themselves and other owners that boast about this player's speed -- this player is RIDICULOUSLY fast in loading high definition media. LIGHT YEARS ahead of my Panny BD10A; it's almost an instantaneous effect when you load a BD from the loading screen to the main menus or trailers. The player is ridiculously fast. And that's a big plus for anyone.

5. Near silent - Last but not least, the 83 was also reportedly one of the quietest player. This is critical for people who intend to use it for music enjoyment, but again in that case people should spend the extra $400 and get the 83SE. Of all my players I found the BDP-320 quiet enough to the point I enjoy BR music more so than I do with SACD on the 6 to 10 times more expensive Denon 3910. The XDE is also quiet but for movies it matters not much. The PS3 is far too noisy for anything other than movies.

This wasn't really a factor for me, but the 83 I'd have to say is pretty damn quiet...it makes some funky buzzing when menus are selected on discs, as the player switches to different playback modes and such, but that's to be expected. No more or less quiet than my Panny I'd say.

To conclude, I wish Oppo would be brave enough to try marketing a $299 BD player that offers the same BR/DVD PQ, speed and low noise performance as the 83. In my opinion the 80 is a disaster. I understand it is good in speed and noise but not as good as it's brother in SQ and PQ so what the heck is the point to pay $399 unless speed king is a pre-requisite to you.

Wow -- that's interesting that you feel that way about the BDP-80. Is it really that bad? What makes it a disaster in your opinion?

Isn't the '80 the player which removes the Anchor Bay processor for a lower price over the '83?

 

[PENG]

I have and I don't think anyone would notice the difference.

Thank you for confirming this.

You can't play DVD-A MLP tracks on a PS3 or any other Sony player; only the dts tracks.

I understood, I should have been more specific about that point.

I would never buy a player based on loading time, but it IS fast.

Same here, all I meant to say was some people might....

Quiet in terms of noise from the unit itself physically or during playback the noise floor of the unit?

I meant physically, for example I find my PS3 and HDDVD players too noisy for me to enjoy classical music discs. Noise floor in general don't bother me that much as I don't crank he volume up high enough to notice the hiss.

While the REON players are supposed to do a better job at "cleaning up" a poor image, I've also heard this results in a softer picture as well (expected as a result of the "cleaning"). Some prefer this softer image and others feel that ABT gives better general results, though as noted, it doesn't "clean up".

Regarding 'clean up' and 'softer picture', I thought I kind of said that too, in different words.

What I have been getting at all along is, I am not sure why this is a question at all? If you guys aren't satisfied with the quality of upscaling from the best players on the market, why would one say "the player is overhyped"? I bought my 83 before there were any reviews of it, so it wasn't based on hype. I had 3 upscaling players at the time, and as mentioned, the 83 easily bested them. It isn't a night and day difference, but it IS noticeable. When you have a player that is good, the buzz/hype will tend to get a bit blown out of proportion, but I don't see where there has been a frenzy over this player touting it as the best thing since sliced bread. It is an excellent player and receives great reviews not simply based on its upscaling, but because it does a LOT of things very well.

You are not asking me right? I am not the guy who asked those questions and I don't even have the 83! Every (unless I missed one) time I cited the word 'overhyped' I quoted it. The guy raised some points that are logically valid. Perhaps if you read his posts again you may noticed his logic. I really don't see any 'frenzy over this player................since sliced bread'. I do see different opinions, preference, disappointment expressed by one owner and yes he did use the word 'overhyped' but that's about the extent of the 'frenzy', unless I missed some posts.

The single reason why I bought one was because I wanted one box to replace 2 or 3 and I was concerned that one unit could not do it. I was pleasantly surprised that it could.

Sure, everyone has his/her own reasons but I have no trouble accepting that this poster may not have enough reasons to hold on to his 83. It is clear from his posts that he is not satisfied with the 83's upscaling performance and that performance in this area is important to him. Also from his posts, may be, just may be, he prefers smooth but softer pictures that are less grainy. That's why I suggested a Reon equipped player or the Pioneer players.

 

[PENG]

Okay, I am trying to follow you here, but can you make some elements a bit more clear for me? Do you mean there should be no difference between a player fitted with a Reon processor and one with the ABT solution, as the 83?

I am not sure but I do believe you can see more of a difference on a larger screen. My point though, was that if you are not happy with the PQ you are getting on your 50" screen how are you going to be happy with the PQ on a 100" screen? I mentioned jostenmeat because he had previously commented on DVD PQ on his large screen (don't remember the size but triple digit for sure). Mind you with a larger screen you can always watch it from further away but the gap between upscaled PQ and BR remains none the less.

I would have gone for it (although this player was a gift, so...).

How nice to have such a gift! I have been waiting for gifts like that for years....

Wow -- that's interesting that you feel that way about the BDP-80. Is it really that bad? What makes it a disaster in your opinion?

The player itself must be pretty solid from reviews I read and the fact that it is an Oppo product. From marketing standpoint I thought it was a disaster because for people who have no use for SACD and DVDA they may not have enough reasons to spend $299. For people who are keen on SACD/DVDA they would presumable be audiophile or at least near/semi audiophile/audioholic type who will likely want the audio side to be of higher end than the Oppo 80. Of course in trying to make a point I used an overly strong expression. No it is not a disaster, not literally anyway.

Isn't the '80 the player which removes the Anchor Bay processor for a lower price over the '83?

Correct, it has a different video processor in it. I am not sure if the audio electronics are the same though.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I am not the guy who asked those questions and I don't even have the 83!

Then why are you posting in an Oppo BDP-83 related thread?

Are you thinking of getting one?

Every (unless I missed one) time I cited the word 'overhyped' I quoted it. The guy raised some points that are logically valid. Perhaps if you read his posts again you may noticed his logic.

Thank you. I'm glad someone could see the logic behind my arguments/points.

I really don't see any 'frenzy over this player................since sliced bread'. I do see different opinions, preference, disappointment expressed by one owner and yes he did use the word 'overhyped' but that's about the extent of the 'frenzy', unless I missed some posts.

Sure, everyone has his/her own reasons but I have no trouble accepting that this poster may not have not enough reason to hold on to his 83. It is clear from his posts that he is not satisfied with the 83's upscaling performance and that performance in this area is important to him. Also from his posts, may be, just may be, he prefers smooth but softer pictures that are less grainy. That's why I suggested a Reon equipped player or the Pioneer players.

Well, I am uncertain if I will actually "get rid of" my BDP-83, but as far as the "frenzy" and "hoopla" and all that go, there IS an unyielding, overwhelming amount of "overyhype" regarding this player both online and in print publications; it does indeed border on "best thing since sliced bread" semantics, but I did not originally say that.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I am not sure but I do believe you can see more of a difference on a larger screen. My point though, was that if you are not happy with the PQ you are getting on your 50" screen how are you going to be happy with the PQ on a 100" screen? I mentioned jostenmeat because he had previously commented on DVD PQ on his large screen (don't remember the size but triple digit for sure). Mind you with a larger screen you can always watch it from further away but the gap between upscaled PQ and BR remains none the less.

Let me chew on that for awhile...

How nice to have such a gift! I have been waiting for gifts like that for years....

Well, it was a gift from a parent, and in this certain parent's specific financial situation (not mine), the $500 price point for this player wasn't a "problem."

The player itself must be pretty solid from reviews I read and the fact that it is an Oppo product. From marketing standpoint I thought it was a disaster because for people who have no use for SACD and DVDA they may not have enough reasons to spend $299. For people who are keen on SACD/DVDA they would presumable be audiophile or at least near/semi audiophile/audioholic type who will likely want the audio side to be of higher end than the Oppo 80. Of course in trying to make a point I used an overly strong expression. No it is not a disaster, not literally anyway.

From what I understood, the BDP-80 didn't include the Anchor Bay processor, so DVD upscaling was supposedly "worse off" than with the BDP-80 (we all know I feel about that personally) but as far as SACD and DVD Audio go, I didn't know this player handled that as well -- so it IS a universal player like the 83. I don't think, though, that spending $299 would be "unnecessary" or "overkill" for those who don't need playback of these formats; I mean, how much cheaper can you go on a player? I realize there are Wal Mart level models for less than this, but who would REALLY want one?

Correct, it has a different video processor in it. I am not sure if the audio electronics are the same though.

Confirmed; I don't think the analog circuits are as premium as on the 83 or Special Edition/retrofitted models though.

 

[PENG]

From what I understood, the BDP-80 didn't include the Anchor Bay processor, so DVD upscaling was supposedly "worse off" than with the BDP-80 (we all know I feel about that personally) but as far as SACD and DVD Audio go, I didn't know this player handled that as well -- so it IS a universal player like the 83. I don't think, though, that spending $299 would be "unnecessary" or "overkill" for those who don't need playback of these formats; I mean, how much cheaper can you go on a player? I realize there are Wal Mart level models for less than this, but who would REALLY want one?

The newest Panny DMP-BD65 is going for around $160. The Pio BDP-320 regular goes for around $160 or at times much less. Folks at AVS forum reported that the Pio's Elite equivalent BDP-23FD could be had for similar price range, sometimes a little over $200. Again, if you prefer a less grainy picture, try out the Pio.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142263

Confirmed; I don't think the analog circuits are as premium as on the 83 or Special Edition/retrofitted models though.

Of the 3 models, the 83SE makes most sense, but that's just my opinion. If and when my Denon dies, the 83SE will likely be my top choice.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

The newest Panny DMP-BD65 is going for around $160. The Pio BDP-320 regular goes for around $160 or at times much less. Folks at AVS forum reported that the Pio's Elite equivalent BDP-23FD could be had for similar price range, sometimes a little over $200. Again, if you prefer a less grainy picture, try out the Pio.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142263

Interesting. I didn't realize players of this caliber had dropped to these levels. Still, I don't think $299 is really "ridiculously overkill," but I understand what you're saying based on the above data.

Of the 3 models, the 83SE makes most sense, but that's just my opinion. If and when my Denon dies, the 83SE will likely be my top choice.

It sounds like you use your HT machines for audiophile duties as well, yes?

 

[PENG]

Interesting. I didn't realize players of this caliber had dropped to these levels. Still, I don't think $299 is really "ridiculously overkill," but I understand what you're saying based on the above data.

Don't get me in trouble with Mr. Garcia, I never said "ridiculously overkill".

It sounds like you use your HT machines for audiophile duties as well, yes?

I use the HT gear for 5.1 SACD/DVDA via Denon Link but I run analog cables to the audio system for Stereo SACD/DVDA and use pure direct mode. Both systems are in the same room, for now.

 

[PENG]

Then why are you posting in an Oppo BDP-83 related thread?

Are you thinking of getting one?

Yes, I have my eyes on the 83 SE, can't you tell? I have to get rid of at least two players first though. At the moment there is no chance I can make the case other than I want my toy even though I have no need for it.

Well, I am uncertain if I will actually "get rid of" my BDP-83

I understand now, I wasn't thinking of the fact that it was a gift.

but as far as the "frenzy" and "hoopla" and all that go, there IS an unyielding, overwhelming amount of "overyhype" regarding this player both online and in print publications; it does indeed border on "best thing since sliced bread" semantics, but I did not originally say that.

I thought he referred to this particular thread. Again I must have missed some posts.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Don't get me in trouble with Mr. Garcia, I never said "ridiculously overkill".

Oh, I'm not saying that you did -- I was merely using that statement as a reference...

 

[PENG]

I've had these discussions at ridiculous and exhausting length with their support staff, regarding the noise reduction abilities of the player, why it will not "clean up" poor transfers, etc. etc. and it was always suggested to me that first of all, the '83's noise reduction system uses a mosquito type reduction which does nothing for background compression and block noise, and secondly, the Anchor Bay chipset wasn't designed, at all, to "improve" the look of any video -- Oppo actually told me that if this is something I was after, I would need to look to products that carry the Realta/Reon or Genumm processors because these components can actually tweak the look of poor standard definition material (and HD material) to get rid of grain noise, macroblocking, compression artifacts and a slew of other problems.

I really appreciate you sharing these information. I read so much about the Oppo superior customer service but this level of honesty or open mindeness is really refreshing and unparelled. Now I really want one.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Yes, I have my eyes on the 83 SE, can't you tell? I have to get rid of at least two players first though. At the moment there is no chance I can make the case other than I want my toy even though I have no need for it.

I see now that you're eyeing the SE.

I understand now, I wasn't thinking of the fact that it was a gift.

Even if it weren't a gift, I don't think I would necessarily get rid of it; I just wish the DVD upscaling was a TAD more promising. There's honestly nothing wrong with the machine -- outside of its rather non existent noise reduction abilities -- and it's a great all around player which bitstreams all the high resolution codecs (well, TrueHD/MA) which is something I was after in a new player. If I could have bought this without SACD and DVD Audio for less than $499 (if I were buying it) it would have made even more sense.

I thought he referred to this particular thread. Again I must have missed some posts.

He may have; I don't know. I'm saying I've seen this player overwhelmingly gushed over online and in print.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

I really appreciate you sharing these information. I read so much about the Oppo superior customer service but this level of honesty or open mindeness is really refreshing and unparelled. Now I really want one.

One thing I will say about Oppo's customer service is that whatever's been said about them is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I mean, these guys have had RIDICULOUSLY lengthy e-mail discussions with me regarding getting my player to its optimum performing extremes for weeks and weeks on end, maybe longer...and they never lost their patience or refused to help. They gave me their recommended settings for the player based on my display, and I believe it helped the image look better than when I set it up on my own, initially.

But they were honest in telling me that if I was looking for overtly aggressive noise reduction processing, I shouldn't have looked at a player with the Anchor Bay chip because it doesn't offer such NR capabilities...and I too was impressed with this level of honesty, if not put off by the fact that I should have probably gone with a different brand of Blu-ray player because I NEEDED the aggressive noise reduction for my tastes.

 

[jostenmeat]

But they were honest in telling me that if I was looking for overtly aggressive noise reduction processing, I shouldn't have looked at a player with the Anchor Bay chip because it doesn't offer such NR capabilities...and I too was impressed with this level of honesty, if not put off by the fact that I should have probably gone with a different brand of Blu-ray player because I NEEDED the aggressive noise reduction for my tastes.

Yes, and DNR is the most hated thing by videophiles. But . . . maybe check out the DVDO Edge, it can apply DNR and EE while based on ABT. In fact, I think even Onkyo receivers can do that too, but I don't know how they comparatively work. I sometimes base my movie purchases on making sure that DNR and EE are not used excessively. For reasons like that do I buy Braveheart over Gladiator, for instance.

Note that:

480i DVD gets you 337,920 pixels.

1080p bluray gets you 2,073,600.

Upconverting does not magically or accurately create the 1,735,680 missing pixels.

Remember, upscaling is putting lipstick on a pig. It might be Revlon, or it might be Estee Lauder, but you get the point.

Ok, I am NOT saying players don't make a little difference, but keep your expectations in check. If you really care about PQ, look towards display upgrade. Likewise, if this was an audio thread, and you had a $1500 set of speakers, and were looking to buy a ($500?) disc player to greatly improve your audio, well, I'd probably tell you to look towards the speaker upgrade first, even if costs 5x more. Because I think it's still the better value. More expensive, yes, but the better allocation of funds IMHO.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Yes, and DNR is the most hated thing by videophiles.

I realize this, Josten, and I'm not after DNR for the reasons of really making a smoothed out look from detailed material; after all, I HAVE read all the articles and arguments about what happened with Citizen Kane. I just happened to like the way my previous Panny BD10A applied its DNR to standard DVDs that had too much compression noise and artifacting, as it seemed to squelch these issues somewhat; the Oppo doesn't do this at all.

But . . . maybe check out the DVDO Edge, it can apply DNR and EE while based on ABT.

I've heard about this; is the EDGE the standalone noise reduction device that plugs in between devices or is this something else completely?

In fact, I think even Onkyo receivers can do that too, but I don't know how they comparatively work.

I am uncertain if Onkyo receivers have the EDGE processor, but I wouldn't leave NR duties to my AVR anyway; I prefer to have it in the source deck.

I sometimes base my movie purchases on making sure that DNR and EE are not used excessively. For reasons like that do I buy Braveheart over Gladiator, for instance.

I understand what you're saying here, and I have heard negative things about Gladiator's Blu-ray transfer, hence why I didn't replace my Signature Selection DVD with it, but you have to admit there are SOME DVD transfers that can just benefit from SOME kind of artifact reducing or something to calm down aggressively noisy/grainy transfers...

Note that:

480i DVD gets you 337,920 pixels.

1080p bluray gets you 2,073,600.

Upconverting does not magically or accurately create the 1,735,680 missing pixels.

I know that, and again, I'm not looking for BD-like magic from upconversion, as many novices first getting into the game are...I just think some DVDs can look better upscaled to 1080p, BASED ON the "upconversion hype" companies like Oppo and Toshiba (via their XDE player) enjoy.

Remember, upscaling is putting lipstick on a pig. It might be Revlon, or it might be Estee Lauder, but you get the point.

Ok, I am NOT saying players don't make a little difference, but keep your expectations in check. If you really care about PQ, look towards display upgrade. Likewise, if this was an audio thread, and you had a $1500 set of speakers, and were looking to buy a ($500?) disc player to greatly improve your audio, well, I'd probably tell you to look towards the speaker upgrade first, even if costs 5x more. Because I think it's still the better value. More expensive, yes, but the better allocation of funds IMHO.

Do you really think a display upgrade would be more benefitial than expecting more from a source player's processing guts?

 

[jostenmeat]

I've heard about this; is the EDGE the standalone noise reduction device that plugs in between devices or is this something else completely?

It is a stand alone video processor. It can deinterlace, scale, and apply NR/EE, to your various sources. It is not the end all, but a rather more affordable VP, as the nice VPs you see are extremely expensive (at least those with CMS).

I am uncertain if Onkyo receivers have the EDGE processor, but I wouldn't leave NR duties to my AVR anyway; I prefer to have it in the source deck.

The EDGE is brand name, but the "ISF" Onkyo receivers have these tools.

I understand what you're saying here, and I have heard negative things about Gladiator's Blu-ray transfer, hence why I didn't replace my Signature Selection DVD with it, but you have to admit there are SOME DVD transfers that can just benefit from SOME kind of artifact reducing or something to calm down aggressively noisy/grainy transfers...

Of course I agree. I didn't see you state that specifically before. What you said was that you were ". . . impressed with this level of honesty, if not put off by the fact that I should have probably gone with a different brand of Blu-ray player because I NEEDED the aggressive noise reduction for my tastes."

I know that, and again, I'm not looking for BD-like magic from upconversion, as many novices first getting into the game are...I just think some DVDs can look better upscaled to 1080p, BASED ON the "upconversion hype" companies like Oppo and Toshiba (via their XDE player) enjoy.

I'll take your word for it, even if your previous posts do not seem to indicate it that way to me, and I'd bet to others as well. OTOH, I simply can't keep up with your numerous inquiries, but I do find time to chime in here and there. Yes, but I agree, there IS hype, and not a few AHers bought it due to this, at least some small extent. Perhaps it could be interpreted instead as brand loyalty.

I mean there were posters who held out on BD for years, yes, years, just for the Oppo. I mean, that's nuts if you ask me, especially because the two players I've bought are still less money combined than the Oppo(s), and to boot, there were so many promotions going on with BDP sales (I think I got 7 free titles or something).

Do you really think a display upgrade would be more benefitial than expecting more from a source player's processing guts?

Yes, I think that's what I said. After all, better displays have better video processors too. That's why some people, or pros like bandphan, simply prefer to have his Signature Kuro do all VP duties. Some displays might have Gennum. In fact, if you asked me (and I have no evidence at all outside of subjective side by side viewing), I think the most immediately noticeable thing with Pana plasmas of yesteryear, between model lines, was indeed the VP. Regardless, I am familiar with SXRD RPTVs, having seen 2000, 2020, 3000, XBR, etc, and while a smoother look than DLP RPTVs, they still don't touch plasmas for contrast, black detail, viewing angle, etc.

Oh, and finally, I subjectively believe plasmas do the very best with standard def. They look waaaaay better to me with SD than LCD, that's for sure, and somewhat significantly better than RPTVs, but don't hold me to that, decide for yourself.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

It is a stand alone video processor. It can deinterlace, scale, and apply NR/EE, to your various sources. It is not the end all, but a rather more affordable VP, as the nice VPs you see are extremely expensive (at least those with CMS).

So, this would actually run in line between the source and the display/receiver? Is there a way to defeat the scaling so that only the noise reduction controls are active?

The EDGE is brand name, but the "ISF" Onkyo receivers have these tools.

Which "ISF Onkyos"?

Of course I agree. I didn't see you state that specifically before. What you said was that you were ". . . impressed with this level of honesty, if not put off by the fact that I should have probably gone with a different brand of Blu-ray player because I NEEDED the aggressive noise reduction for my tastes."

Right -- I meant for media/standard definition material that exhibits HORRENDOUS amounts of compression/block noise and abnormalities such as that. THAT'S what I can -- and prefer to -- use when it comes to NR.

I'll take your word for it, even if your previous posts do not seem to indicate it that way to me, and I'd bet to others as well.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. Even PENG agreed that I made quite valid points and arguments.

OTOH, I simply can't keep up with your numerous inquiries

I don't think that's necessarily fair or even kind; are we not here, deep in a deluge of online discussion forums, to ask questions of fellow hobbyists? What else is the point other than to ask, provide and share information on the home theater and audio realms? I'm just trying to receive opinions and insight with regard to specific elements of my interests -- whether they're on the two channel or multichannel side of things.

My apologies for wasting your time.

but I do find time to chime in here and there. Yes, but I agree, there IS hype, and not a few AHers bought it due to this, at least some small extent. Perhaps it could be interpreted instead as brand loyalty.

It brings a warmth to my heart that you at least acknowledge that there is some kind of "hype" going on here -- but you are correct in the assumption that this could in fact be due to brand loyalty, as there is a plethora of such with regard to the Oppo name.

I mean there were posters who held out on BD for years, yes, years, just for the Oppo. I mean, that's nuts if you ask me, especially because the two players I've bought are still less money combined than the Oppo(s), and to boot, there were so many promotions going on with BDP sales (I think I got 7 free titles or something).

That is nuts, but I have to admit (while I didn't actually WAIT for this player to come out in order to dive into high definition) I was wondering just what kind of deck Oppo would make if they did in fact get into Blu-ray, and it did tempt me even mentally. Again, I think I was swept into the hype surrounding this company's products.

I hate to say this and I don't usually get so outspoken about such things (if you knew people that know me, they would tell you this most passionately) but I really believe this company and its respective products are overrated. As I said previously, I had installed their 983 DVD player prior to this BDP-83 BD deck, after hearing about how it was THE ABSOLUTE player to have, and it didn't really impress me all that much on 1080p upscale via HDMI (and YES my display was calibrated during the testing). I don't think all the gushing this firm receives over their products from home theater journalists and the like is warranted; I just don't see it. I mean, their products produce a GOOD image, but to call it the "best money can buy"? I disagree with this.

Yes, I think that's what I said. After all, better displays have better video processors too. That's why some people, or pros like bandphan, simply prefer to have his Signature Kuro do all VP duties. Some displays might have Gennum. In fact, if you asked me (and I have no evidence at all outside of subjective side by side viewing), I think the most immediately noticeable thing with Pana plasmas of yesteryear, between model lines, was indeed the VP. Regardless, I am familiar with SXRD RPTVs, having seen 2000, 2020, 3000, XBR, etc, and while a smoother look than DLP RPTVs, they still don't touch plasmas for contrast, black detail, viewing angle, etc.

I disagree about the SXRDs not competing with the plasmas for black level and viewing angle -- even contrast; the reason why I bought one was because the black level and viewing angles absolutely blew the plasmas I demo'ed side by side completely out of the water.

Oh, and finally, I subjectively believe plasmas do the very best with standard def. They look waaaaay better to me with SD than LCD, that's for sure, and somewhat significantly better than RPTVs, but don't hold me to that, decide for yourself.

That I don't know about, but I can say that standard definition upconversion via a separate Blu-ray or DVD player into my SXRD has never been that impressive; maybe the next upgrade will be to an LCD or LCD projector, or a plasma. I don't know, but it won't be ANYTIME soon, that's for sure.