new speaker system - need advice

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for all the great info! Andrew, I am still waiting to hear from our friend on my inquiry. At the end of the week, I will be out of town working on my thesis until around the end of May, so I will attempt to contact him again when I return. As far as the ATI AT 1805 is concerned, since I will be getting an AVR (Anthem MRX 510 or Denon X4000) I was thinking I'd get either a ATI AT 1082/3 and use the AVR to power the surrounds - any thoughts on this idea over the ATI AT 1805?

Regarding the new speaker system (Revel, RBH or KEF) like you advised, I guess it will all come down to the final price, but I sure do like the way those Revels look - KEF is not bad either. RBH is simply ok in the aesthetics dept., but I'm sure the sound quality of all of them is exceptional. What can you tell me about Ascend?

The AT1802 would save money for sure and address the 2 primary power hogs - front L/R. The AVR should be able to easily power the Center and 2 surrounds.

Ascend would sound as good as any of these speakers IMO, but the bass will not be as good as the RBH SX-8300. And like most other towers, the Ascend cannot be actively bi-amped like the SX-8300.

You may not even need subwoofers (depending on how crazy you get and how big your room is) if you have the SX-8300. Each tower will have the equivalent of almost one SX-1010N subwoofer.

But as far as midrange and treble, choosing one of these towers over the other is just personal preference IMO.

 

[Cos]

I really liked the Revel F208 last time when I was speaker shopping, but they were out of my budget at the time. As my signature denotes, I have continued to add Golden Ear to my equipment and plan on replacing my Paradigm Studio 100s with the Triton 1s when they come out in June. I have the Triton 7s out in my bedroom and can't believe the quality of the sound for the price.

Will make my final decision when I actually get the opportunity to demo them. Otherwise I feel I will be opening my pockets a lot more for the quality of sound I am looking for on my basement remodel.

Goldenear Technology's Triton One shames speakers costing ten times as much | Digital Trends

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&sqi=2&ved=0CGUQFjAK&url=http://origin.library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1103589248191-726/Triton+One_Press+Raves_Mar2014.pdf&ei=4vpnU_SRBafuyQHtjYDwCQ&usg=AFQjCNHg34KPKNn_J7kTAsn1DsALABfCLg

Seems like a lot of speaker for the 5k price range.

 

[1911]

The AT1802 would save money for sure and address the 2 primary power hogs - front L/R. The AVR should be able to easily power the Center and 2 surrounds.

Ascend would sound as good as any of these speakers IMO, but the bass will not be as good as the RBH SX-8300. And like most other towers, the Ascend cannot be actively bi-amped like the SX-8300.

You may not even need subwoofers (depending on how crazy you get and how big your room is) if you have the SX-8300. Each tower will have the equivalent of almost one SX-1010N subwoofer.

But as far as midrange and treble, choosing one of these towers over the other is just personal preference IMO.

I believe we once discussed passive sub woofers contained within a tower and I do appreciate the fact that I could probably eliminate separate sub woofers with the RBH SX-8300. Perhaps I am just a novice, but I am not keen on the idea of having sub woofers contained within the towers in the first place - especially passive ones that would need the added expense of being bi-amped (if the sub portion of the AVR could not be utilized) + I wouldn't have the luxury of being able to place the sub woofer in a location that improved the sound quality. I definitely would not want to have to purchase an additional amp - like the Dayton you recommended, since $ is a consideration - then again, purchasing a separate sub would probably cost more... This will require some thought...

Additionally, if our friend is indeed able to help me when I am ready to make the purchase, I have a feeling that the RBH SX-8300 or possibly the SX-6300, will be the most cost-effective option.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Perhaps I am just a novice, but I am not keen on the idea of having sub woofers contained within the towers in the first place - especially passive ones that would need the added expense of being bi-amped (if the sub portion of the AVR could not be utilized) + I wouldn't have the luxury of being able to place the sub woofer in a location that improved the sound quality.

It is absolutely no different than the $22K Revel Salon2, $25K B&W 800D2, $20K KEF 207/2, $30K KEF Blade! All these speakers have "built-in passive subwoofers" in order to produce 25-30Hz bass. The only difference is that you can only passively bi-amp these $20-$30K towers, not actively.

You don't have to bi-amp the SX-8300 at all. It can be single-amp just like all the towers I mentioned above. The bi-amp is there if you want to, but not required.

And there are "optimal" subwoofer placements (i.e. crawl test), but it's not like you are going to place your subs in the middle of the room if that is the optimal location.

There are only a few locations that most people are comfortable with placing their subs, and it's usually out of sight, which is usually on the sides of the room close to the corners.

That is why it is important to have 2 or 4 subs in the room - to smooth out the bass response.

Anyway, my only point is that towers that can go cleanly down below 30Hz is usually a very good thing, but usually very expensive. It is a luxury. Just like the option to actively bi-amp your speakers is a luxury that most towers don't offer even if you wanted to (including the $20-$30K speakers I mentioned). Most towers can only be passively bi-amp, which is a complete waste of time and money.

 

[1911]

And if I actively bi-amp the RBH SX8300s, how can this be done with the AVR? Would I need to use a splitter from the AVR SUB outputs and how then is it connected to the RBH speakers? Sorry if this is such a novice question...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And if I actively bi-amp the RBH SX8300s, how can this be done with the AVR? Would I need to use a splitter from the AVR SUB outputs and how then is it connected to the RBH speakers? Sorry if this is such a novice question...

1) Traditional passive speaker connection: AVR speaker wire straight to the SX-8300 just like 10,000 other passive speakers.
2) Active bi-amp (for the Advanced audiophile, more rare): AVR LFE output (Denon X4000 has dual independent LFE, others may need a Y-splitter) to external amp first, then connect speaker wire from the external amp to the bottom speaker binding post of the SX-8300. Then connect the AVR L/R main speaker wire to the top binding post of the SX-8300.

Thus, if you don't have an external amp, you cannot actively bi-amp the SX-8300 nor any other speakers. Active bi-amp requires the use of an additional amp. One amp is for the tweeter & midrange (which do NOT require a lot of power) and one amp is for the bass (which requires a lot of power). If you have an AVR with one LFE, you would need to buy a Y-splitter cable or adapter.

If all towers were designed like the RBH towers, then most audiophiles could actively bi-amp their towers, instead of passively bi-amp.

Which leads to the question -- why the heck don't they?

Does it cost too much money? Surely $22K Salon2, $25K B&W 800D2, and $20K KEF 207/2, etc., could justify the cost.

I was also thinking, if you actively bi-amp the SX-8300, the AVR could easily power the tweeters and midrange drivers of the SX-8300, which most likely require 10% of the total power, and the ATI AT1802 would actively bi-amp the bass drivers of the SX-8300.

So the AVR connects to the top speaker binding posts of the SX-8300, and the AT1802 connects to the bottom speaker binding posts of the SX-8300. The AT1802 is 270W into 4 ohms @ 0.03% THD, so 1% THD would probably be about 300W. The SX-8300 is rated for 100W-400W.

Of course, if you want to go a lot cheaper, the Dayton SA230 (230W) amp would also work. You would need 2 Dayton amps. Retail is $200 each, but our friend could get it a lot cheaper.

 

[1911]

I may have found a place locally to audition RBH speakers. I will be out of town until 5/22, so I will check it out upon my return. I'll let you know my impressions...

 

[PENG]

The Focal's have a better high end and the KEF'S are more neutral, FWIW.

Good luck.

I have not compare my Focal with my R900 side by side as they are in different rooms but I am quite sure the KEF is not more neutral. I think they are a just a touch less transparent. My reference point is always live unamplifier concerts.

 

[1911]

1) Traditional passive speaker connection: AVR speaker wire straight to the SX-8300 just like 10,000 other passive speakers.
2) Active bi-amp (for the Advanced audiophile, more rare): AVR LFE output (Denon X4000 has dual independent LFE, others may need a Y-splitter) to external amp first, then connect speaker wire from the external amp to the bottom speaker binding post of the SX-8300. Then connect the AVR L/R main speaker wire to the top binding post of the SX-8300.

Thus, if you don't have an external amp, you cannot actively bi-amp the SX-8300 nor any other speakers. Active bi-amp requires the use of an additional amp. One amp is for the tweeter & midrange (which do NOT require a lot of power) and one amp is for the bass (which requires a lot of power). If you have an AVR with one LFE, you would need to buy a Y-splitter cable or adapter.

If all towers were designed like the RBH towers, then most audiophiles could actively bi-amp their towers, instead of passively bi-amp.

Which leads to the question -- why the heck don't they?

Does it cost too much money? Surely $22K Salon2, $25K B&W 800D2, and $20K KEF 207/2, etc., could justify the cost.

I was also thinking, if you actively bi-amp the SX-8300, the AVR could easily power the tweeters and midrange drivers of the SX-8300, which most likely require 10% of the total power, and the ATI AT1802 would actively bi-amp the bass drivers of the SX-8300.

So the AVR connects to the top speaker binding posts of the SX-8300, and the AT1802 connects to the bottom speaker binding posts of the SX-8300. The AT1802 is 270W into 4 ohms @ 0.03% THD, so 1% THD would probably be about 300W. The SX-8300 is rated for 100W-400W.

Of course, if you want to go a lot cheaper, the Dayton SA230 (230W) amp would also work. You would need 2 Dayton amps. Retail is $200 each, but our friend could get it a lot cheaper.

Andrew, What do you think of this idea: Get an ATI AT 1805 and use it for the front 3 channels (left & right mains & center channel) and then use the remaining 2 channels on the ATI AT 1805 to bi-amp the passive sub woofers on the RBH SX 8300 or SX-6300 mains. I could then use the AVR to power the surrounds.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Andrew, What do you think of this idea: Get an ATI AT 1805 and use it for the front 3 channels (left & right mains & center channel) and then use the remaining 2 channels on the ATI AT 1805 to bi-amp the passive sub woofers on the RBH SX 8300 or SX-6300 mains. I could then use the AVR to power the surrounds.

That would work great. It all depends on how much you want to spend.

You could also get the AT1807 and use 5Ch to power the 5 speakers and use 2Ch to actively bi-amp the 2 RBH towers.

 

[cpp]

Everyone will think differently on aesthetics for sure.

RBH SX vs. Revel Performa vs. KEF R would be my 3 top personal choices.

I am really hoping someone would get the RBH SX-8300. Then if they are not 100% satisfied, I could trade them my shinny piano gloss red mahogany Philharmonic 3 speakers.

I see one can get the RBX SX-8300 for $3,800 but not sure if this place is an authorized dealer RBH SX-8300/R (black)(each) RBH SX-8300/R (black)(each) - - It's Free! : New Audio & Video, New Electronics at Lowest Prices!

I heard the F208 recently, very nice and wifey friendly in the looks department

 

[Cos]

I highly doubt that place is an authorized reseller, and in my opinion if you are going to spend that kind of money, at least get it from a well established online dealer, or a local dealer. That is a lot of money to spend and a new website. The "who we are" is not even complete.

 

[cpp]

I highly doubt that place is an authorized reseller, and in my opinion if you are going to spend that kind of money, at least get it from a well established online dealer, or a local dealer. That is a lot of money to spend and a new website. The "who we are" is not even complete.

true from what I read on that site, they purchase the speakers they say A-stock and are not dealers. Odd that they can get them so cheap.

Me I only purchase from an authorized dealer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I see one can get the RBX SX-8300 for $3,800 but not sure if this place is an authorized dealer RBH SX-8300/R (black)(each) RBH SX-8300/R (black)(each) - - It's Free! : New Audio & Video, New Electronics at Lowest Prices!

No, I wouldn't buy from them.

 

[cpp]

No, I wouldn't buy from them.

me, heck NO.. PS: I did get to hear some very interesting JBL's this week. The JBL 1400 array. It sure doesn't sound like a horn speaker

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

me, heck NO.. PS: I did get to hear some very interesting JBL's this week. The JBL 1400 array. It sure doesn't sound like a horn speaker

Another audio religion and politics. Another thing audiophiles worry about. Oh, no, it's a "horn", thus it must sound bright and blah, blah, blah.

If the design is good and the speaker sounds good, it doesn't matter what type of tweeters they use. Audiophiles. Geez.

 

[jalesi]

On the RBH WEB site, they are specifically listed as a non-authorized dealer.

 

[1911]

RBH lists one dealer in my area. I have attempted to call them several times during standard business hours and no one answers - just a recording to leave a message - I did, and no one called back. I have sent them 2 e-mails and they have not replied. I hate to drive out to this business since it is relatively far away only to find that they are not open or require an appointment. So far, this supposed RBH dealer has left a bad taste in my mouth and I wonder how their customer service must be if they can't even be bothered to respond to prospective customers. Has any else had an experience like this with RBH dealers? I am thinking of reporting my experience to RBH directly. I may have to wait until I travel to Dallas to audition RBH speakers...

 

[nova]

I would not equate an experience with a dealer to RBH customer service. I would definitely call RBH and report the experience. Also ask if there is another dealer close by. I have met Rodger many times as well as most of the folks who work for him. They have all been very helpful and have outstanding customer service. Don't give up on them as you really need to audition their excellent speakers.

 

[Cos]

I would not equate an experience with a dealer to RBH customer service. I would definitely call RBH and report the experience. Also ask if there is another dealer close by. I have met Rodger many times as well as most of the folks who work for him. They have all been very helpful and have outstanding customer service. Don't give up on them as you really need to audition their excellent speakers.

My experience is that their dealer information is not updated very often. I drove out last weekend to demo the 8300/Rs and found the first place they had listed was out of business and the second one had a new address. Glad I called the place first as it was still an hour drive.

Bottom line the speakers sound incredible, though not the prettiest. Of course this is coming from a guy who is also looking at the Triton 1s which is a speaker tucked in a sock