MartinLogan XT F100 Floorstanding Speaker Review!

[Danzilla31]

I do love it when I strike a nerve. The XT F100 is flawed. Somebody should be forced to shell out even more money because the f#%kin’ things might smoke their modest AVR? That’s just bulls#%t. I prefer the posts I make from my “armchair” to those made from up Gene’s a$$. He’s great for sure and knows his s#%t. I just don’t care to look out at the world through his belly button. But, you guys do you. If that speaker had a f#%kin’ Bose badge on it, you guys would have torn it apart.

Perhaps more reviews of “cheap” AVRs and the speakers that may smoke them are in order. The half-assed excuse for a review of the Onkyo TX-NR3100 hardly counts. Why should it? It’s a cheap piece of s#%t, right? Ok, it is half baked. But, no more so than that f#%kin’ review. Write it as if you actually used the f#%kin’ thing or hand it off to somebody who will actually do so.

I don’t want to read anymore excuses about wives, kids and life getting in the way of somebody doing their job to the best of their ability. Some folks base their gear purchasing decisions on reviews read from this and other forums. They do matter. There is a responsibility.

All of that being said, nobody and nothing is perfect. I certainly am not so. I keep coming around here because it’s worthwhile. I wouldn’t do so otherwise and I certainly wouldn’t post about any of my disappointments concerning the site if I didn’t like it. But, if something smells of bulls#%t, I’ll probably mention it. Ho Ho Ho!

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm..........




merry almost christmas?





ANNNNNNNDDDD!!!!!


Jesus fuggin loves you!!!!!

 

[Trebdp83]

That is the funniest post I’ve read all year! Thanks. Seriously, I hope everybody enjoys the holidays doing the things they love with the ones they love. Cheers!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I do think they are in the price range where they are likely to be powered from receivers. If they have them at best buy, I will try and give them a listen. That is not and ideal listening environment though.

I think they should have done more work on the load presented to the amplifiers though. Less stress is a good thing and an improvement.

This is the impedance curve of the three way speakers in the family room. It took quite a bit of work to get it that good. I agree three ways do present a challenge in this regard, but I think you do the customer a disservice if you don't make an effort to present the easiest load to drive you can. I think this is part of the design team's responsibility.


Let me explain this to you. Everytime you halve the impedance of the load you double the current. With speakers it is actually usually more than that, as when the impedance curve drops negative, which often is when associated with impedance drops, current demands are significantly increased. Now the heating effect of current through the output devices in not linear, but goes up by the square of the increase in current.

So if you drop to two ohms you have squared the heating in the output devices by the square of the square.

So this is why once you start to drop certainly below four ohms, the output devices really get stressed.

It does not take much. My amp that gets the hottest is the one driving the surrounds. These speakers have the lowest impedance dropping to just below four ohms below 200 Hz but never as low as three. The other amps cranking out more power run cooler.

So low impedance loads are a much bigger problem than you think. They do have a definite effect on the longevity of amplifiers, both in regards their output devices and power supplies.

In receivers you have small output devices and close spaced amp boards, so they are very vulnerable to the I squared X R heating losses from the increased current driving low impedance loads.

Since the db increase is log, you can see that turning down the volume drastically decreases the heating of the output devices.

Let me dumb it down for you so that so you can understand.

As I’ve said so many freaking times and millions of other people are doing it every freaking day, I have powered 4-ohms speakers with impedance down to 2.7 ohms at loud volume up to 100dB+ with $500 50WPC AVR for 3 years. Again, not 10 years because I didn’t keep the system for that long. I played music from Mozart/Beethoven to rock and pop music. It sounded great without any kind of issues. The AVR NEVER NEVER NEVER heated or anything.

Hypotheticals and all that are cool to TALK about. And they do have merits. But just like speaker measurements, ACTUALLY LISTENING to the system is even more important.

As I’ve ALREADY SAID, it doesn’t hurt to buy good quality amps that are stable down to even 2 ohms. It’s probably better for your system in the long term.

People like you look at speaker measurements and you think you actually know everything there is to know about the speaker and how it sounds and what kind of amps the speaker needs. When other people tell you their PRACTICAL REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES with the same speakers and amps, you completely ignore it.

So just stop it.

 

[Bobby Bass]

Thanks for the review. Good to see that ML has upped their game with these towers. I Listened to a pair of the previous line about a year ago and the dealer that has always been reliable wasn’t a fan, which says a lot. I’ve always had horn or dome tweeters. Interested in trying a ribbon like on these to see if I like the sound. $4,500 US would be the most I’ve ever spent on a pair of speakers so they would have to be an upgrade for me To be satisfied. Maybe in the new year. Merry Christmas!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For entertainment value, I ran a little test with my "home alone" rig this morning. Speakers are KEF R3 Metas, which are 4-ohm nominal and have an EDPR that hits 2 ohms in a few spots; their sensitivity is nothing to brag about either, at ~86dB w/ 2.83V. Amplification is courtesy of the NAD M10 V2, which uses Hypex NC252MP modules in a very compact chassis. The NAD lets me monitor the NCore modules' temps, which is a handy feature. Test started with a warmup of a couple hours worth of rock and metal at spirited volumes. This was then followed by a movie double-feature. I checked the temps from time to time, and they topped out at 65C. Thermal shutdown happens at 91C, so it seems like there is a fair amount of margin in that regard, at least in my case. After all was said and done, the chassis was certainly warm to the touch, but nowhere near as hot as the receivers and Class A/B amps I've used in the past.

Would be cool if the amp also said what was the max power used and the minimum impedance reached.

Also, which AVR have you used that got hotter?

 

[ryanosaur]

That is the funniest post I’ve read all year! Thanks. Seriously, I hope everybody enjoys the holidays doing the things they love with the ones they love. Cheers!

Ah, Audioholics… the perfect metaphor for family gathering at the holidays!
We’ve got politics and sports, spirited conversation and disagreements…
All that’s missing is the pie!

May Krampus cane us all lightly and sardonically with his birch rod and give a chocolate anyway… after all there is a little bit of both good and bad in all of us!



Peace out!

 

[Danzilla31]

That is the funniest post I’ve read all year! Thanks. Seriously, I hope everybody enjoys the holidays doing the things they love with the ones they love. Cheers!

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all my Audioholic friends!!!!!!!!!+!

 

[ryanosaur]

Would be cool if the amp also said what was the max power used and the minimum impedance reached.

This!

 

[Danzilla31]

Ah, Audioholics… the perfect metaphor for family gathering at the holidays!
We’ve got politics and sports, spirited conversation and disagreements…
All that’s missing is the pie!

May Krampus cane us all lightly and sardonically with his birch rod and give a chocolate anyway… after all there is a little bit of both good and bad in all of us!



Peace out!

Bro you are a professional chef. I would love to invite you over for Christmas and have one of your pies. Or anything else you cook for that matter.

It would be so friggin awesome!!!!

 

[Danzilla31]

Thanks for the review. Good to see that ML has upped their game with these towers. I Listened to a pair of the previous line about a year ago and the dealer that has always been reliable wasn’t a fan, which says a lot. I’ve always had horn or dome tweeters. Interested in trying a ribbon like on these to see if I like the sound. $4,500 US would be the most I’ve ever spent on a pair of speakers so they would have to be an upgrade for me To be satisfied. Maybe in the new year. Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas!

 

[Steve81]

Would be cool if the amp also said what was the max power used and the minimum impedance reached.

No doubt. I’m a little curious if / how often I hit clipping levels.

Also, which AVR have you used that got hotter?

I had an Onyko TX-SR707 years back that was a little furnace pushing a 5 channel Klipsch setup. I added a couple fans on top of it to alleviate that issue.

 

[TLS Guy]

Let me dumb it down for you so that so you can understand.

As I’ve said so many freaking times and millions of other people are doing it every freaking day, I have powered 4-ohms speakers with impedance down to 2.7 ohms at loud volume up to 100dB+ with $500 50WPC AVR for 3 years. Again, not 10 years because I didn’t keep the system for that long. I played music from Mozart/Beethoven to rock and pop music. It sounded great without any kind of issues. The AVR NEVER NEVER NEVER heated or anything.

Hypotheticals and all that are cool to TALK about. And they do have merits. But just like speaker measurements, ACTUALLY LISTENING to the system is even more important.

As I’ve ALREADY SAID, it doesn’t hurt to buy good quality amps that are stable down to even 2 ohms. It’s probably better for your system in the long term.

People like you look at speaker measurements and you think you actually know everything there is to know about the speaker and how it sounds and what kind of amps the speaker needs. When other people tell you their PRACTICAL REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES with the same speakers and amps, you completely ignore it.

So just stop it.

That is like saying that if you get run over by a bus you don't necessarily get killed!

If measurements indicate a problem there is is one. You may not detect it, but there is a problem. The converse is not true, that if it measures well it does not necessarily sound good. The reason for that is that there is no reliable way to get a handle of the output power band performance limits. So it becomes a designers experience how to deal with that problem. I have never seen a significant aberration on a measurement that I could not also audibly detect.
I am darn certain I would detect that rough tweeter response pronto.

I will say that it is poor design practice to have severe impedance dips in the major power bands, especially if also associated with large negative phase angles. That can indicate a crossover in resonance and that will blow the toughest of amps.

I guess it comes down to the fact we have different standards.

 

[HJC001]

The problem with making ASSumptions on how a speaker sounds solely on measurements without actually hearing them can lead one to believe listening tests aren't even needed. Just buy with a graph. I spoke with Dan Roemer of Perlisten about this topic. It's fairly easy to make a speaker produce good CTA-2034 measurements and still sound like ass. The ML F100s speakers actually sound very neutral. Matt told me he put them up against his Perlisten S7c inwalls and they were very close in performance and neutrality. I've heard the F100s in several rooms and thought they sounded very good. The bass is their strong point since the woofers are low to the ground and the port is on the floor, which minimizes ground bounce. Also factor in the speaker fit and finish is excellent. It's the first time I'd recommend a Motion series product. Their bookshelf is a different story as James Larson found out. We rejected that speaker and asked MartinLogan to resubmit once they tweak the crossover to tame the highs. Last I checked they were making a running change. Not sure the status on that.

Yes they are a difficult load to drive but not for a good Anthem amplifier. I've seen most set ups running these with Anthem electronics, not a cheap AVR.

When i knock on cabinets at local bestbuy, the MLs sound SOLID whereas some like-priced products sound like I built them. Fit n finish, too, looks gggggreat. But i aint heard these.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

When shopping for a pair of speakers in that price range, nobody should be concerned about anything but the aesthetics of a given pair. They certainly shouldn’t have to be concerned with them damaging their receiver. Issues such as those concerning the XT F100 are unacceptable at that price point and in no way a “good value.”

Giving it the best “mid-priced” tower speaker prize is, well, at the very, very least irresponsible. I’m mean, how is one not also participating in bulls#%t marketing tactics when calling it a “good value” but at the same time warning they may destroy, excuse me, may prove to be a “difficult load” for lower end receivers?

If a high cost, yes $4,500 is high cost for many, pair of speakers places anybody’s receiver in danger, it has no f#%kin’ value. It certainly isn’t the “best.” “Deck the forums with threads of folly, fa la la la la, la la la la… Tis’ the season to be dodgy, fa la la la la, la la la la!”

We need to be careful. This is a serious overstatement.
remember I used them with a 70wpc at 8 ohm lower end integrated amp from Marantz. I also plugged them into a Sony receiver. Nothing shut down or broke.

the speaker doesn’t dip into 2 ohms. The EPDR is simply showing that to make it visually more obvious how the phase angle would demand more current than a straight ohms law calculation would suggest. We’ve never shown a speakers EPDR before and so you need to consider this on a relative basis. Lots of 4 ohm towers tend to be a somewhat demanding load, current wise.

overcurrent protection has been standard on all electronics for decades. The likelihood that spirited use of these speakers would do damage is very low. At best it might go into protection. But again, I listened to them at very loud levels (by any standard) and it never shut down. I’ve measured the Marantz and Sony. While very good for mainstream amps, they aren’t current monsters. Any receiver over $2k should be adequate to handle these just fine.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I do think they are in the price range where they are likely to be powered from receivers. If they have them at best buy, I will try and give them a listen. That is not and ideal listening environment though.

I think they should have done more work on the load presented to the amplifiers though. Less stress is a good thing and an improvement.

This is the impedance curve of the three way speakers in the family room. It took quite a bit of work to get it that good. I agree three ways do present a challenge in this regard, but I think you do the customer a disservice if you don't make an effort to present the easiest load to drive you can. I think this is part of the design team's responsibility.


Let me explain this to you. Everytime you halve the impedance of the load you double the current. With speakers it is actually usually more than that, as when the impedance curve drops negative, which often is when associated with impedance drops, current demands are significantly increased. Now the heating effect of current through the output devices in not linear, but goes up by the square of the increase in current.

So if you drop to two ohms you have squared the heating in the output devices by the square of the square.

So this is why once you start to drop certainly below four ohms, the output devices really get stressed.

It does not take much. My amp that gets the hottest is the one driving the surrounds. These speakers have the lowest impedance dropping to just below four ohms below 200 Hz but never as low as three. The other amps cranking out more power run cooler.

So low impedance loads are a much bigger problem than you think. They do have a definite effect on the longevity of amplifiers, both in regards their output devices and power supplies.

In receivers you have small output devices and close spaced amp boards, so they are very vulnerable to the I squared X R heating losses from the increased current driving low impedance loads.

Since the db increase is log, you can see that turning down the volume drastically decreases the heating of the output devices.

These are a more typical than not load. Kef is only slightly better. Like .7 ohms higher at the lowest points. I wanted to start including EPDR but I think it’s throwing people. That isn’t the actual impedance. It’s just a visual representation of the equivalent dissipation caused by the phase angle. There is no denying the benefit of a higher current amp with this speaker, but any average sensitivity tower would benefit from a potent amp. I made the same claim with those Polk L800’s. They worked with a receiver fine, as in no damage or obvious issues. But they clearly sounded better with a potent 200 watt amp. These are the same.

the Marantz integrated amp isn’t a current monster and it powered them ok. I was actually surprised how good that setup worked. I had expected to hear clipping and dynamic issues. I also briefly plugged them into that Sony receiver I had which also had no issues. I like it loud (James and Don can confirm just how loud I like it). Nothing ever shut down nor did I ever notice clipping.

 

[Mikado463]

Thank you for the replies Matthew, there seems to be a fair amount of 'doomsday' rhetoric circling about !

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

These are a more typical than not load. Kef is only slightly better. Like .7 ohms higher at the lowest points. I wanted to start including EPDR but I think it’s throwing people. That isn’t the actual impedance. It’s just a visual representation of the equivalent dissipation caused by the phase angle. There is no denying the benefit of a higher current amp with this speaker, but any average sensitivity tower would benefit from a potent amp. I made the same claim with those Polk L800’s. They worked with a receiver fine, as in no damage or obvious issues. But they clearly sounded better with a potent 200 watt amp. These are the same.

the Marantz integrated amp isn’t a current monster and it powered them ok. I was actually surprised how good that setup worked. I had expected to hear clipping and dynamic issues. I also briefly plugged them into that Sony receiver I had which also had no issues. I like it loud (James and Don can confirm just how loud I like it). Nothing ever shut down nor did I ever notice clipping.

It’s definitely throwing some people off. TLS Guy thinks using this speaker with the Marantz or AVR is like getting run over by a bus.

Did you feel like you got run over by a bus while you were listening to these speakers with the 70WPC Marantz?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

One thing I think we can all agree on - if you buy a 4-ohm speaker, it never hurts to buy an amp stable for 2 ohms.

I have powered big towers that have impedance below 3 ohms at high volume with a $500 AVR rated at 50WPC. I didn’t play it for 10 years, though. So I don’t know the chronic/long-term adverse effects of doing that to an AVR.

I would be a bit shocked if anyone bought these towers and uses them on a sub-$2k receiver. I doubt it would do any damage but it wouldn’t be advisable.

honestly, getting ten years out of any modern receiver is doing well. These things become technologically outdated faster than that so they don’t build them to last. I’ve never kept a receiver long enough for it to actually die. I actually think I am pretty hard on gear too.

 

[Trebdp83]

You should be careful. Exactly which receiver under $2K wouldn’t be adequate? And, why is that the target, sorry, magic number?

These new “visuals” don’t seem to be anything more than a scare tactic that are meant to make one spend considerably more coin on a new AVR or amps because these new speakers “sounded better” with 200 watt or more amps.

Thanks, but I’m not overspending on AVRs, speakers or cables anymore. If “value” really was the most important attribute of the “best,” that Monoprice subwoofer would have been alone on that list.

So, anyway, line up guys. Get your new MLs! If you dropped over $2k on your AVR, you are good to go. If not, well, good luck.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Thank you for the replies Matthew, there seems to be a fair amount of 'doomsday' rhetoric circling about !

I can only say, I would surprise me if it actually did long term damage. But who knows. It’s not possible for our reviews to test that.

I am really bad about turning reviews around quickly. I got these speakers a LONG time ago. Like when they released them. I unpacked them pretty quickly. I bet I listened to them throughout that time. 6-9 months. I bet I listened to them for a hundred hours. Maybe more. I had them in my great room on the Marantz amp for about a month. In my bedroom on the Sony for a week. I also had them on a tiny Bluesound powered node. It didn’t die. I then moved them upstairs and they spent 3-4 months up there. They didn’t come down until Michael came over to do the tour. I had them on various amps but mostly the Marantz. I am also positive that I listened to them for hours at a time. At one point I spent something like 10pm to 3am listening. Nothing died or shut down in that time.