Mark Levinson 433 vs Parasound 51

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, they own Crown, JBL, Levinson, Revel, Infinity, Lexicon, AKG, DBX, Studer... and the hits just keep on coming. And Harman off-shores or out-sources manufacturing for every one of them. Paliwal ain't my kind of guy. Sidney was.

A few years ago I sold off my mint Crown 822. I couldn't get 456 tape for it anymore, and digital sounds *so* much better. But that was a machine...

Is Paliwal the guy I have to thank for my Salon2 being made in Mexico?

 

[jinjuku]

Yeah, they own Crown, JBL, Levinson, Revel, Infinity, Lexicon, AKG, DBX, Studer... and the hits just keep on coming. And Harman off-shores or out-sources manufacturing for every one of them. Paliwal ain't my kind of guy. Sidney was.

A few years ago I sold off my mint Crown 822. I couldn't get 456 tape for it anymore, and digital sounds *so* much better. But that was a machine...

My first setup: I'm 15 and instead of saving for a car I get the DC300A, the DC150A, the IC 150, the OC 150, Acoustic Research AR7's, and some base bins with 12" Eminence Woofers.

The Crown I found in the classifieds, the AR7's I found dent and ding and priced at a song at Rex's Salvage, the Eminence I picked up from Denny at Plazatronics and he's the guy that told me to get the Crown. He benched everything and the 300 was clipping at 191 WPC and the 150 at 92.

Once friends figured out what I had I didn't NEED a car. They were happy to take me where ever, when ever.

To be fair Crown isn't the same company after the purchase but the market is a lot more crowded with players than it was in the 50/60/70 and even 80's. I can't fault them for bringing out lower lines. You can still get Crown amps made in the USA. There are contracts that specify no electronics of foreign origin. There are even XLS's that are made in the US. Mine wasn't however.

 

[canelli]

I want to thank everyone for their great input and points.

Both the wife and I have concerns over buying the 433 and it needing repairs. In the past I ran into problems with a "reputable" speaker manufacturer.

A custom installer told me to buy Crown. I scoffed. Guess the joke was on me (karma for pretending I know something about audio stuff ).

The ATI is looking good and easier on the wallet.

Glad Audiogon is back up. I was getting a nervous twitch.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Is Paliwal the guy I have to thank for my Salon2 being made in Mexico?

One can't say for sure, but it's happening under his leadership. Sickening.

 

[jinjuku]

A custom installer told me to buy Crown. I scoffed. Guess the joke was on me (karma for pretending I know something about audio stuff ).

It's my experience when one REALLY wants to know about a product: Talk to tech support and not the sales person.

The sales person is at the front of the sale generally speaking. It's the tech, designer, installer (who also aren't necessarily on commission) who are there through design, implementation and after sales.

In a prior life before running my own company I was a field engineer assigned to a 3 person sales force. My job was to go on sales calls and architect solutions. We were direct reps for 3COM, Shoretel, Cisco, Dell, Juniper, MS, etc... After about 3 months the reps wouldn't let me sit in on the sales call because I was killing their commissions because they were ALWAYS overselling.

I would listen to the custom installer personally.

 

[jinjuku]

One can't say for sure, but it's happening under his leadership. Sickening.

Look, Crown is subject to market pressures just like every other company. They still make their high end product. You want something in the MacroTech line up you still can.

All I know I can call Crown up and get schematics on almost anything they currently produced or have. I believe all their 1970's service and tech manuals are available in PDF.

 

[walter duque]

Look, Crown is subject to market pressures just like every other company. They still make their high end product. You want something in the MacroTech line up you still can.

All I know I can call Crown up and get schematics on almost anything they currently produced or have. I believe all their 1970's service and tech manuals are available in PDF.

You will not get that service on a Mark Levinson. I had one and could not get it fixed, they will not send you any schematics. I got a good deal when I bought it, it did not work so I figured for a couple hundred that I got a deal. No go, ended up as an expensive boat anchor.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Look, Crown is subject to market pressures just like every other company. They still make their high end product. You want something in the MacroTech line up you still can.

I'm not buying it. ATI and QSC, to name two other amplifier manufacturers, still manage to manufacture domestically, be competitive, and support the US economy. I don't mean to be such a flag-waver, but I get damned tired of these it's-all-for-me CEOs that reduce everything to a this quarter financial decision or a headache reduction from running an hourly-wage work force and the logistics of a factory. Or maybe they just want to pass off environmental regulations to a place where pollution is A-OK with the government. It's just my opinion, but it's not okay OK with me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I notice the QSC amps have a 6 years warranty, while the Crown amps have a 3 years warranty.

After buying the QSC among from an authorized dealer, you must register the amp with QSC to get 6 years warranty.

Similar to ATI in which you must register to get the 7 years warranty.

QSC 500wpc x2ch 8ohm brand new 6 yr warranty $400:

QSC GX5 Stereo Power Amplifier: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm not buying it. ATI and QSC, to name two other amplifier manufacturers, still manage to manufacture domestically, be competitive, and support the US economy.

QSC's RMX and GX amps are made in china. In fact the build house that makes them, ripped off their design and sells the same designs, modified with worse build quality via Behringer and Mackie.

 

[jinjuku]

ATI and QSC, to name two other amplifier manufacturers, still manage to manufacture domestically.

From the QSC Audio Forum:

All but the RMX, GX, and ISA series amps are manufactured at our facilities/headquarters in Costa Mesa, California. The RMX, GX, and ISA amps are designed by QSC but built for us by a company in China.

Bob Lee
Applications Engineer
QSC Audio Products, LLC
Secretary, Audio Engineering Society

I believe you can get Crown Amps of American manufacture also.

 

[jinjuku]

You will not get that service on a Mark Levinson. I had one and could not get it fixed, they will not send you any schematics. I got a good deal when I bought it, it did not work so I figured for a couple hundred that I got a deal. No go, ended up as an expensive boat anchor.

I don't wrapped around the amp axle. From everything I have owned (Behringer, Adcom, Parasound, Crown) to have had access to: Emotiva, NAD, and a $7500 Classe.

I ain't wasting my money, and I'm not believing these people with these night and day differences. If they hear a difference most likely something in the comparo was setup incorrectly or their mind is at work relative to the price + aesthetic. They certainly can't do it with a towel thrown over the electronics.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

QSC's RMX and GX amps are made in china. In fact the build house that makes them, ripped off their design and sells the same designs, modified with worse build quality via Behringer and Mackie.

QSC PLX 600wpc x2ch $850 amp made in USA:
QSC PLX1804 Lightweight Professional Power Amplifier: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

Still, $400 for 500wpc stereo amp & 6 yr warranty is pretty good.

 

[jinjuku]

QSC's RMX and GX amps are made in china. In fact the build house that makes them, ripped off their design and sells the same designs, modified with worse build quality via Behringer and Mackie.

You forgot Tapco and GEM...

 

[GranteedEV]

You forgot Tapco and GEM...

Well the Tapco Juice amps are discontinued, and it's the same company as mackie so I kind of just didn't bother.

Never heard of GEM.

 

[jinjuku]

QSC PLX 600wpc x2ch $850 amp made in USA:
QSC PLX1804 Lightweight Professional Power Amplifier: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

Still, $400 for 500wpc stereo amp & 6 yr warranty is pretty good.

I don't know about the Country of manufacture (for the clone of the PLX, assume Chinese origin) but I believe the PLX is cloned and Lab Gruppen is cloned but I don't know if they managed to also clone their digital look ahead technology (a feedback system).

 

[cpp]

Now a days the Country of manufacture really doesn't mean much. Sure the units notes built or assembled in the good old US of A, but the majority of the parts within the unit come from another country. Just like most things in your home, your car, your clothes etc.. As long as there is a decent warranty, a decent dealer to deal with and the unit meets or exceeds the customers expectations it could very well be a winner to that customer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Now a days the Country of manufacture really doesn't mean much. Sure the units notes built or assembled in the good old US of A, but the majority of the parts within the unit come from another country. Just like most things in your home, your car, your clothes etc.. As long as there is a decent warranty, a decent dealer to deal with and the unit meets or exceeds the customers expectations it could very well be a winner to that customer.

I think so too.

I mean $400 for a brand new 500wpc stereo amp w/ 6 yr warranty is really nice regardless of country of origin - if you don't mind the pro amp aesthetics.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think so too.

Oh, really? Then why were you complaining so much about your Salon 2s being made in Mexico?

 

[GranteedEV]

Oh, really? Then why were you complaining so much about your Salon 2s being made in Mexico?

ADTG, I think represents a lot of us when we behave all OCD about pointless crap, but don't really REALLY care.