Marantz PM-11S3 Integrated Amplifier Review

[gene]

The Marantz Av8801 supports LFE+Main for digital/digitized sources.
it would be nice if this was available in the analog domain.

Almost no company supports what I call Super Bass mode that allows LFE to be routed to the main channels and sub channel simultaneously. ADA is one of the few companies that will offer this feature if you request it. Possibly Anthem might but I haven't checked out their products in years.

Marantz doesn't support this on any product. LFE + Main basically sends bass from the main channels to the sub channel but never allows LFE to goto the main channels even if they are set large. There is good reason for this as most speakers can't handle this much bass demand and most amps can't supply the dynamic range.

However in my case where my reference speakers and amps have virtually unlimited dynamic range, I really need this mode since I run my speakers single amped full range. I have a workaround for this but it isn't pretty and it involves me bypassing the sub out on the processor and using the main l/r unbalanced preouts for my extra 2 subs. I wrote about this in my Status 8T review if you want to learn more.

 

[RichB]

^^^

If I understand, you want to send the LFE to the mains.
The current D&M LFE+Main send a copy of the main channels Bass to mains but also to the sub(s) but only in the digital domain (I believe).
i would like an analog version of this functionality, with no implicit digital conversion.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

changing uh video settings affects the sound with analog in a pure Direct mode.

That does not sound right, you should ask Marantz tech support about that because there could be something wrong with your unit.

 

[RichB]

That does not sound right, you should ask Marantz tech support about that because there could be something wrong with your unit.

It is as designed. I have already been that route.
using the web control, it is not difficult to demonstrate, otherwise I think you would hard pressed to tell.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

It is as designed. I have already been that route.
using the web control, it is not difficult to demonstrate, otherwise I think you would hard pressed to tell.

- Rich

Did Marantz tell you that? Sorry I just find it hard to understand, makes no sense at all. I did try once and didn't notice anything but will do again.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

^^^

If I understand, you want to send the LFE to the mains.
The current D&M LFE+Main send a copy of the main channels Bass to mains but also to the sub(s) but only in the digital domain (I believe).
i would like an analog version of this functionality, with no implicit digital conversion.

- Rich

Of course, this does not affect a 5 Satellite + 5 Sub system.

I sure don't want to accidentally send a 110dB 20-40Hz signal to my speakers.

 

[RichB]

Of course, this does not affect a 5 Satellite + 5 Sub system.

I sure don't want to accidentally send a 110dB 20-40Hz signal to my speakers.

I believe Gene wants to send the .1 channel to the mains when there is a .1 channel.
Front/Left Main: Full signal + .1 LFE

There are not too many speakers that can handle this, but he has them

I would like LFE+Main to operate while maintaining an analog signal.

However, in your case, your front speakers a in multiple boxes so it is the same as Gene.
The 3 other speaker/sub pairs are bystanders to this process.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 3 other speaker/sub pairs are bystanders to this process.

- Rich

Bystanders?

All the subs are working there butts off at the same time. None of the subs are just "standing" there doing nothing.

Even for 2Ch music, all 7 Subs are firing away.

I believe Gene is setting up his [Sat + Sub] as a single passive tower; the [Sat + Sub] is powered by a single amp. So his [Sat + Sub] is more like a single cabinet one-piece tower using only one regular speaker wire, no LFE cable connected.

In most Sat + Sub two-piece systems, the Sat is powered by one amp and the Sub is powered by another amp (either built-in or separate).

 

[gene]

I believe Gene is setting up his [Sat + Sub] as a single passive tower; the [Sat + Sub] is powered by a single amp. So his [Sat + Sub] is more like a single cabinet one-piece tower using only one regular speaker wire, no LFE cable connected.

In most Sat + Sub two-piece systems, the Sat is powered by one amp and the Sub is powered by another amp (either built-in or separate).

Correct, my towers are run passively with a single speaker cable and amp for each tower. The only way to get LFE to them is by turning the sub channel completely off. This is the case with 99% of processors/receivers now. If you use "LFE + Main", LFE will only go thru the sub channel. As I said my circumstance is unique and I don't recommend running my configuration for most systems.

 

[piotr]

hello,

many thanks for this comprehensive review! Since I'm the user of pm11s2, I would be very interested in some more comparison between these two versions in terms of sound. As I understand the difference is a bit more power in s3 and tweaked clipping but in terms of sound - are they close / the same? Is a change to s3 worth considering assuming I don't have clipping issues with s2 with my present speakers (Vienna Acoustic Beethowen)? Power amp in is a desirable feature but only for that I guess I wouldn't bother with the change unless the sound of s3 is really better.
Many thanks in advance.
BR
Piotr

 

[gene]

hello,

many thanks for this comprehensive review! Since I'm the user of pm11s2, I would be very interested in some more comparison between these two versions in terms of sound. As I understand the difference is a bit more power in s3 and tweaked clipping but in terms of sound - are they close / the same? Is a change to s3 worth considering assuming I don't have clipping issues with s2 with my present speakers (Vienna Acoustic Beethowen)? Power amp in is a desirable feature but only for that I guess I wouldn't bother with the change unless the sound of s3 is really better.
Many thanks in advance.
BR
Piotr

If your S2 is serving your purposes well, I wouldn't take the financial hit to upgrade to the S3.

 

[piotr]

thanks for quick reply. So is there any difference sonically between S2 and S3?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

thanks for quick reply. So is there any difference sonically between S2 and S3?

I highly doubt there is any sonic difference between the S1 vs. S2 vs. S3 in Direct mode unless you use Room Correction, DSP, EQ, etc.

I also notice the S2 is spec as 110WPC and the S3 is spec as 100WPC. That's going backward to me, although not much of a difference.

 

[gene]

thanks for quick reply. So is there any difference sonically between S2 and S3?

I didn't directly compare the S2 and S3 units so I can't tell you with great certainty of the sonic differences. However, the S2 preamp section is better than the S3 but the S3 drives my speakers better so the more robust amp section does make a difference if your speakers are demanding enough. I could hear the S2 run out of gas right before shutting down while the S3 didn't exhibit this problem.

If you really want more power, its cheaper to use the S2 as a preamp and get a pair of Emotiva XPA-1's.

 

[gotoma8]

Voltage Gain of the Amplifier section....

Hi, first off, thank you for the great review. I have the PM11S3 and love it! You are right that the rated 100wpc into 8 ohms is a little shy of reality as these are driving my DIY sealed 2.5 way three driver speakers really well! I believe my speakers are about 86db at 4 ohm efficiency, so not too efficient, but these seemed to do a better job than my Pass X1 and X250 Combo, though it definitely does not play as loud!

I was wondering if you did or tried to measure the Voltage gain of the Amplifier Section? If so, what is that? I know the norm is anywhere from 26db to 30 db.

Thanks

Tuan

 

[gene]

Hi, first off, thank you for the great review. I have the PM11S3 and love it! You are right that the rated 100wpc into 8 ohms is a little shy of reality as these are driving my DIY sealed 2.5 way three driver speakers really well! I believe my speakers are about 86db at 4 ohm efficiency, so not too efficient, but these seemed to do a better job than my Pass X1 and X250 Combo, though it definitely does not play as loud!

I was wondering if you did or tried to measure the Voltage gain of the Amplifier Section? If so, what is that? I know the norm is anywhere from 26db to 30 db.

Thanks

Tuan

Tuan 26-30 dB is a normal gain for an amplifer, not a preamp.

I did measure the preamp gain and it's in the report here:
Marantz PM-11S3 Integrated Amplifier Measurements and Analysis | Audioholics

 

[RichB]

What voltage is recommended from a preamp drive a normal gain amplifier from the unbalanced and balanced outs?

Also is it normal for a Preamp to go above the reference volume to +6 or +12 DB.
My AV8801 is able to go to +18 (I believe) but I cannot imagine turning it up above 0 as -10 is quite loud.

- Rich

 

[gotoma8]

Tuan 26-30 dB is a normal gain for an amplifer, not a preamp.

I did measure the preamp gain and it's in the report here:
Marantz PM-11S3 Integrated Amplifier Measurements and Analysis | Audioholics

Hi Gene, yes, I am referring to the Amplifier section as a separate component here. Therefore, I wanted to know what the voltage gain is so that I could look for a similar gain amp for bi-amping as I don't want to spend another $5k on the PM11S3 just for the amp section.

I can tell you that the PM11S3 is dead quiet and is amazingly smooth with lots of details. I am using the matching SA11S3. The only thing I wished the PM11S3 had was another pair of balanced inputs.

 

[gene]

Hi Gene, yes, I am referring to the Amplifier section as a separate component here. Therefore, I wanted to know what the voltage gain is so that I could look for a similar gain amp for bi-amping as I don't want to spend another $5k on the PM11S3 just for the amp section.

I can tell you that the PM11S3 is dead quiet and is amazingly smooth with lots of details. I am using the matching SA11S3. The only thing I wished the PM11S3 had was another pair of balanced inputs.

Sorry I didn't measure that. I use the PM11S3 as a 2CH reference so next time I bring my AP out to test an amp, I will see if I can measure it and report back to you.

 

[gotoma8]

Thanks Gene, I look forward to it.

So, do you still have the PM11S3?

Tuan