Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Just give me one good reason.:p
One good reason for you? There clearly isn't one.

It just occurred to me that one of the things I like about believing is that if I'm wrong ... I'll never know. I'll be thinking that "I'm gonna get to see, I'm finally gonna get to know" ... and then the light will simply go out like I never was. But I'll never get to 'know' that I'm wrong cause I'll be dead ... like really dead, but that's just silly. Why would I die when I want to live?

I would never take it upon myself to convince anybody or much less prove that there is a God. I may be a carpenter but I'm not that kind of carpenter. ;)
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
It just occurred to me that one of the things I like about believing is that if I'm wrong ... I'll never know. I'll be thinking that "I'm gonna get to see, I'm finally gonna get to know" ... and then the light will simply go out like I never was. But I'll never get to 'know' that I'm wrong cause I'll be dead ... like really dead, but that's just silly. Why would I die when I want to live?
For me, belief is not something I can choose.

But, unless your beliefs are *very* generalized: isn't it entirely possible that you will know you were wrong (perhaps as you drink the stale-beer in FSM hell)?
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
For me, belief is not something I can choose.

But, unless your beliefs are *very* generalized: isn't it entirely possible that you will know you were wrong (perhaps as you drink the stale-beer in FSM hell)?
Oh, I finally got that. I think you may have missed my meaning. If there isn't a creator then I wouldn't be able to end up in hell to find out that I am wrong about believing in a creator.

I haven't really followed the thread so I'm not sure if you do or don't believe but if you wanna roast with Dave, ... it's cool. :eek: :D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
It appears that the nature of the process of the big bang is that no information transitions the event. Since there is no evidence in existence, no knowledge can be had.

But, of course, it's highly speculative.
I think what I was trying to convey is that in time we may have a better understanding about the big bang and perhaps what was before or most probably was, certainly more knowledge than we have today.
 
N

newaudiofile

Audioholic
No body can force somebody to an accurate thinking.

I can wake tomorrow and say 1 + 2 = 2.

I will suffer the consequence alone. But nobody can put me in jail for that.

The Bible says "He who says there is no God is a fool"

No insults intended. But when you think about it who is to gain here.

If there is no God then me and the evolutionist end up in the same way.

Because we both do not have a purpose.

But what if there is a God. In whom i believe in trust, then I guess who loses.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Agreed, but even the most advanced intelligence cannot explain how something – anything – just came into being from absolute nothingness. We have some very intelligent minds right here on Earth, and some computers to crunch the numbers, and yet no one can explain how this little particle just appeared (short of divine intervention)
Oh, but you are using only today's knowledge base to make your point. I suspect our knowledge base will grow as time passes and as it has from the past. Therefore, it would be pretty difficult to speculate how much we will knowing say a 1000 years, if we survive ourselves that long? 10k years?
How about some ancient civilizations well beyond ours out there in the universe? A lot of universe just for us, and it has been around a long time before our galaxy. We just don't have a frame of reference for such possibilities.
So, it is rather premature to make any speculated prediction about the future. The universe it too big and complex and we are too young in time.
 
N

newaudiofile

Audioholic
The act of a single individual and/or the motives behind that act are quite unrelated to this discussion. Further, that individuals act and/or the beliefs that individual holds are unrelated to the truth behind man's origin and do not change man's origin no matter how much we wish the circumstances were otherwise.



No, it is not. Robot ≠ Human. Therefore we can ascribe neither the same motivation nor the same creative force to their existence. Just because we don't know the origin of humanity does not mean that we need to invent bedtime stories to explain it.
Isnt that exactly what the evolution are trying to find. How humanity came by. The theory of whatever bang and so on and so forth. What if the evolutionist dig and dig and find out eventually the universe was created. Would the bedtime story be a bedtime story.

Its like not listening to what his parents have told him. Looking to find the answer for himself. Which is not a bad thing. But he could avoid big trouble sometimes if he just listen to his parent rather than check everything for himself.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...
Actually, I think you tied them together well. People will believe, with no doubt in their mind, that they heard a difference that didn't exist.
That is a good one, yes. They will believe anything their mind wants to, real or imagined, it is the same for some minds.:D
 
adwilk

adwilk

Audioholic Ninja
Dave, I'm just curious what your parameters would be to actually prove/disprove creation or existence of God. I'm just curious what it takes to prove anything. Has evolution been 'proven'? What would it take?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
It's an awfully big leap to go from "science can't explain" to "a supernatural being must be responsible".
Us poor creatures being able to think and try to reason, for only a mere 100k years perhaps while the universe has been around for 15x10 to 9th and people want answers for the beginning and before, and if we cannot it must be supernatural instead of looking for the answers.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
... However we got here should be considered miraculous, and we should never downplay how incredible our existence is.
Why? Compared to the rest of the universe, it is nothing, we are nothing to it, certainly not a miracle. But, we don't have any pother reference to compare this to so 'miracle' was created.
How incredible is it? I wonder if other living things on the planet contemplate that thought? I doubt it, yet, they go about existing, evolving and moving along in time.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
So the guy who goes to shoot up a school with "Humanity is Overrated" on his T-Shirt is no biggie and we should just accept it.
No, he will be dealt with by the laws.

Isnt your second point contradictory. A simple robot was created but the complex human just appear from a small single cell organism. :confused::confused:
Actually, not contradictory. And no, the complex human just didn't get there over night in one step. And why is it so incredible?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
.... Just because we don't know the origin of humanity does not mean that we need to invent bedtime stories to explain it.
But, it is so comforting, those stories;):D And, a good way to keep many in line and obedient with not much effort. Fear.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Isnt that exactly what the evolution are trying to find. How humanity came by. The theory of whatever bang and so on and so forth. What if the evolutionist dig and dig and find out eventually the universe was created. Would the bedtime story be a bedtime story.

Its like not listening to what his parents have told him. Looking to find the answer for himself. Which is not a bad thing. But he could avoid big trouble sometimes if he just listen to his parent rather than check everything for himself.
Well, somethings we just have to check for ourselves to make sure the parents were not lying, or misinformed. Would not be the first time.

Besides, brainwashing is so evil.
 
N

newaudiofile

Audioholic
No, he will be dealt with by the laws.



Actually, not contradictory. And no, the complex human just didn't get there over night in one step. And why is it so incredible?
And I wonder at which stage humans decided to have laws.

Even the smallest lowest organism is guided by instinctive laws.



Logic dictates that the complexity of anything has to be created.

That is as simple as 1 + 1 = 2.
 
CraigV

CraigV

Audioholic General
When I first started posting on these boards back in January I thought I had fallen in with a group that was of the thinking that different equipment i.e. amplifiers, cables etc. had differing sonic signatures. After some “hate mail” (via PM’s) I quickly found out I was mistaken, and almost left. One member convinced me to stay, and while I did find some other members who shared my views, many did not. Scientific measure was the rule, any perceptions outside of this realm were imagined and subject to skepticism and even some ridicule. This thread seems to parallel the same ideas.

What I find to be interesting is the idea that if it can’t be detected/measured scientifically, it can’t exist. So many people demand proof, they are unwilling to believe in something that for others is very true. My question then to all of you then is this; why can’t both camps co-exist? This debate about creation vs. evolution has been going on far longer than any of us have been around, and when this thread finally makes its way to the pages of past threads, the debate will remain. Debate is good – it allows people to at the very least consider other view points while presenting theirs. But, arguing for the sake of argument is pointless.

If you find that you are the kind of person who vehemently feels they need quantifiable, verifiable, scientifically measured proof of something, it’s likely this thread will not change your mind. Likewise if you are sure and secure in your “beliefs”, whatever they may be. On the occasions I accompany my wife & kids to church, there is a part in the mass where the priest sings “Let us proclaim the mystery of faith”. I would say that for the believers, faith is a mystery, but one they are more than willing to seek clues about all their lives. Being a believer does not make one bad or wrong, just a believer. I have no disdain for those whose views are opposed to mine, and I hope this is universal.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
And I wonder at which stage humans decided to have laws.
Depends on which definitions of "decided" and "laws"

Even the smallest lowest organism is guided by instinctive laws.
No. There are organisms that would fail any reasonable definition of "instinct".

Logic dictates that the complexity of anything has to be created.
Which property of logic in particular makes that neccessairy?
 
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