is 2Hz/4Hz worth additional $600/$900???

[copmagnet82]

As of last night I'm in the market for a sub and I'm sort of torn between three subs, all Martin Logan. My room size is 18Wx20Lx12H, but one of the walls opens up to the dinning room, so it's a "three-wall room".

The subs are:
Dynamo 1500X -> $1600 (satin finish) / $1900.00 (piano black) -> 650 watts (1300 watts peak) -> 20–200 Hz ±3dB
Dynamo 1000W -> $1000.00 -> 500 watts (1000 watts peak) -> 22–200 Hz ±3dB
Dynamo 700W -> $700.00 -> 300 watts (600 watts peak) -> 24–200 Hz ±3dB

As of today, I would not want to spend more then about $2000.00 for the sub/s. My original plan was to get two of the dynamo 700W to keep it balanced. Then, I decided to do two of the 1000W. Then again, I was thinking to get just one of the 1500X, because it can go down to 20Hz, ...and now I'm just confused . I'm looking to have nice, tight bass. I'm willing to spend the money, but I don't want to waste money if the difference is going to be marginal... you guys get the idea.

My questions are:
1. Is 2Hz/4Hz difference worth the extra money, will I hear/feel it?
2. Would I be better off getting two 700W's or two 1000W's vs one 1500X?
3. ...should I maybe consider Grotto or Depth from the Reserve ESL Series and not get any of the Dynamo Series subs?
4. ... your suggestions, preferably within the Logan family

 

[ImcLoud]

There isn't an ML sub I would want to own in their line up {especially when you consider price}.... For that kind of money you can get an amazing subwoofer.. from HSU, SVS, Rythmik, Funk, PSA, ect...

But for the sake of giving the advice you are looking for, go biggest you can afford and get two of them...

 

[copmagnet82]

There isn't an ML sub I would want to own in their line up

Why not? Anything specific that they are doing wrong?

 

[ImcLoud]

Say you spend $1600 on the 1500x, Which I have heard on a few occasions... Now compare that to a uls15 for $1029 and you will have more for less.... There are plenty of good subs out there, I like the uls15 in your price range for musical bass if you are looking for more output an svs 13ultra will give you A LOT of output, there are just so many subs in your price range that will shame the ml line...

 

[lsiberian]

Why not? Anything specific that they are doing wrong?

No there isn't anything wrong with the ML sub, but it is sealed so you won't get the deep bass at 20hz some people like. I'm certain IMC is not familiar with the measurements of the 1500x and the demo he heard had placement and room issues. Honestly at first knee jerk I thought that sub probably sucks, but I'm wrong it's a great sealed sub. That said if you want to do home theater and can live with a ported sub get the SVS Ultra it's pretty much the best commercial sub out there.

I got my measurement info from data-bass.com. It's a third party legit testing sight.

 

[Basshead81]

Agreed with the above statement...the ML dynamonsubs are over priced when compared to the Internet Direct subs. With your budget I would be looking at a Rythmik F15HP, PSA XS30, or SVS SB13U.

 

[copmagnet82]

Before I started the thread, I actually looked at the SVS sb13ultra and it is a more powerful sub for the same amount of money as the 1500x. Just like the ML it gets down to 20Hz but on the upper end it goes up to 450Hz vs 200Hz on ML. The reason I looked at the ML subs is because I can get a package deal and save quite a bit of money . At this point I'm trying to decide if 2Hz is worth the extra cash and if I should sacrifice the 2Hz in order to get 2 subs now, or if I get one 1500x now and later on get another one, but again, if the 2Hz difference is not worth the money, then I'd rather not spend it.

 

[copmagnet82]

No there isn't anything wrong with the ML sub, but it is sealed so you won't get the deep bass at 20hz some people like.

I was trying to avoid ported, so I can get tighter, cleaner bass. I figured that if I get two subs, I can make up for the deeper bass of the ported design and at the same time have it more even throughout the room (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[lsiberian]

Before I started the thread, I actually looked at the SVS sb13ultra and it is a more powerful sub for the same amount of money as the 1500x. Just like the ML it gets down to 20Hz but on the upper end it goes up to 450Hz vs 200Hz on ML. The reason I looked at the ML subs is because I can get a package deal and save quite a bit of money . At this point I'm trying to decide if 2Hz is worth the extra cash and if I should sacrifice the 2Hz in order to get 2 subs now, or if I get one 1500x now and later on get another one, but again, if the 2Hz difference is not worth the money, then I'd rather not spend it.

What's the deal? Keep in mind a pair of subs only gets you +3db in theory you get better sound, but not always and not without proper placement.

 

[lsiberian]

I was trying to avoid ported, so I can get tighter, cleaner bass. I figured that if I get two subs, I can make up for the deeper bass of the ported design and at the same time have it more even throughout the room (correct me if I'm wrong).

You've probably never heard a properly tuned ported bass system because they are not super common, but the best systems I've ever heard were ported. The SVS PB Ultra is the best sub outside of a custom build you can get. It's like buying a Ferrari. That said I understand the size constraints. If you want to feel your movies and enjoy the best of classical music you need 20hz headroom. I will say they can be unforgiving to poorly recording music so keep that in mind.

 

[copmagnet82]

I'd save $800.00 ...that's not bad in my book, but then I don't know. I've been going nuts trying to decide on what's best and it's quite frustrating with all the options out there

 

[copmagnet82]

You've probably never heard a properly tuned ported bass system because they are not super common.

Yes, I will admit that what I've heard was very boomy, not very composed, that's why I figured a sealed sub would be a good option for a nice tight bass.

If you want to feel your movies and enjoy the best of classical music you need 20hz headroom.

so, in your opinion the 2Hz extra will make a difference and is worth the additional cost?

 

[lsiberian]

Yes, I will admit that what I've heard was very boomy, not very composed, that's why I figured a sealed sub would be a good option for a nice tight bass.

so, in your opinion the 2Hz extra will make a difference and is worth the additional cost?

Of course.

 

[copmagnet82]

Of course.

of course sealed sub would be a good option for a nice tight bass

or

of course 2Hz extra will make a difference and is worth the additional cost

 

[shadyJ]

Don't worry about the extension from a sealed sub, you won't be getting enough to worry about unless you have awesome room gain, and from the description of your room, I don't think you will be getting much room gain. If you want deep bass, get a ported sub. If you try to get these sealed subs to have any serious output at 20 Hz, good luck hearing it under all that distortion. Sealed subs are about 30 Hz output unless you have multiples. I wouldn't pay $800 for an extra 2 Hz. I wouldn't buy a ML sub unless you get a substantial discount. If you can't get it for the same cost of a Hsu ULS-15 or a Rythmik F15HP, don't bother with it.

 

[Sheep]

As of last night I'm in the market for a sub and I'm sort of torn between three subs, all Martin Logan. My room size is 18Wx20Lx12H, but one of the walls opens up to the dinning room, so it's a "three-wall room".

The subs are:
Dynamo 1500X -> $1600 (satin finish) / $1900.00 (piano black) -> 650 watts (1300 watts peak) -> 20–200 Hz ±3dB
Dynamo 1000W -> $1000.00 -> 500 watts (1000 watts peak) -> 22–200 Hz ±3dB
Dynamo 700W -> $700.00 -> 300 watts (600 watts peak) -> 24–200 Hz ±3dB

As of today, I would not want to spend more then about $2000.00 for the sub/s. My original plan was to get two of the dynamo 700W to keep it balanced. Then, I decided to do two of the 1000W. Then again, I was thinking to get just one of the 1500X, because it can go down to 20Hz, ...and now I'm just confused . I'm looking to have nice, tight bass. I'm willing to spend the money, but I don't want to waste money if the difference is going to be marginal... you guys get the idea.

My questions are:
1. Is 2Hz/4Hz difference worth the extra money, will I hear/feel it?
2. Would I be better off getting two 700W's or two 1000W's vs one 1500X?
3. ...should I maybe consider Grotto or Depth from the Reserve ESL Series and not get any of the Dynamo Series subs?
4. ... your suggestions, preferably within the Logan family

Where do you live? I'm thinking Canada with the All Martin Logan choices. If not, check out sonicboomaudio.com / svsound.com

SheepStar

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I'm most familiar with SVS, so I'll give you a better option for each price range. I'm sure there is a comparable offering from HSU as well.

Dynamo 1500X -> $1600 (satin finish) / $1900.00 (piano black) -> 650 watts (1300 watts peak) -> 20–200 Hz ±3dB

Either SVS PB12-Plus or SVS SB13 would be a better choice than the Dynamo 1500X. Extension, max/RMS power, build quality, customer service...you name it.

Dynamo 1000W -> $1000.00 -> 500 watts (1000 watts peak) -> 22–200 Hz ±3dB

SVS PB2000 digs deeper, saves you $200. Get a pair of them, get a discount, and come in way under budget.

Dynamo 700W -> $700.00 -> 300 watts (600 watts peak) -> 24–200 Hz ±3d

I'd take SVS SB2000 over this one any day.

Just my two cents. -Jon

 

[lsiberian]

Don't worry about the extension from a sealed sub, you won't be getting enough to worry about unless you have awesome room gain, and from the description of your room, I don't think you will be getting much room gain. If you want deep bass, get a ported sub. If you try to get these sealed subs to have any serious output at 20 Hz, good luck hearing it under all that distortion. Sealed subs are about 30 Hz output unless you have multiples. I wouldn't pay $800 for an extra 2 Hz. I wouldn't buy a ML sub unless you get a substantial discount. If you can't get it for the same cost of a Hsu ULS-15 or a Rythmik F15HP, don't bother with it.

97db at 20 hz is plenty for most people. I'm interested to see your argument against that. That is ground plane. With room gain you are very close to 105 which is peak reference.

There is more to it than 2hz. There is also greater headroom and lower distortion with a better driver.

I'm most familiar with SVS, so I'll give you a better option for each price range. I'm sure there is a comparable offering from HSU as well.

Dynamo 1500X -> $1600 (satin finish) / $1900.00 (piano black) -> 650 watts (1300 watts peak) -> 20–200 Hz ±3dB

Either SVS PB12-Plus or SVS SB13 would be a better choice than the Dynamo 1500X. Extension, max/RMS power, build quality, customer service...you name it.

Dynamo 1000W -> $1000.00 -> 500 watts (1000 watts peak) -> 22–200 Hz ±3dB

SVS PB2000 digs deeper, saves you $200. Get a pair of them, get a discount, and come in way under budget.

Dynamo 700W -> $700.00 -> 300 watts (600 watts peak) -> 24–200 Hz ±3d

I'd take SVS SB2000 over this one any day.

Just my two cents. -Jon

I understand the SVS favoritism, but let's not make false and misleading claims. The ML subs have been measured to be dead even with a sealed SVS PB13 which probably performs on par with the SB13 which I've not seen measurements for. Comparing ported subs to sealed ones is fine, but remember ported subs can add a resonance to the sound that can be unpleasant with certain types of music. IMO Ported systems do much better with symphonies and the like while sealed systems tend to sound better with loudness wars material. Ported systems are also much larger, harder to move and generaly less aesthetic. Though I love the look of them personally. The best system I've heard had no sub and used TLs instead.

 

[shadyJ]

97db at 20 hz is plenty for most people. I'm interested to see your argument against that. That is ground plane. With room gain you are very close to 105 which is peak reference.

There is more to it than 2hz. There is also greater headroom and lower distortion with a better driver.

The OP wasn't asking about dynamic range, he was asking about extension. And yes, I agree there are other reasons to want a better driver. But extension is just not the strong point of this sub. Yeah, you can get nearly 100 dB at 20 Hz signal playback, but who cares when a quarter of that is THD, and mostly third order THD for that matter? Distortion would be more audible than the fundamental in that case. I'm not saying this sub is bad, I just don't think its very good under 30 Hz, but then not many sealed subs are.

 

[lsiberian]

The OP wasn't asking about dynamic range, he was asking about extension. And yes, I agree there are other reasons to want a better driver. But extension is just not the strong point of this sub. Yeah, you can get nearly 100 dB at 20 Hz signal playback, but who cares when a quarter of that is THD, and mostly third order THD for that matter? Distortion would be more audible than the fundamental in that case. I'm not saying this sub is bad, I just don't think its very good under 30 Hz, but then not many sealed subs are.

I think we are starting to beat the dead horse a bit.
It's been demonstrated the only way to get more than that at 20hz is by increasing box size which of course is the very thing we are trying to avoid by going a sealed route. OP, if it were my money and I were buying a sub. It would be the SVS PB 13 Ultra. I don't want the OP to get the idea that the ML would be my choice. There is nothing like listening to symphonies in your own home.