Internet Direct Speaker Brand Comparison

[Nuance AH]

So if I must have the B&W 802D2, not any other curved cabinets, and I don't want them to be made in China, can Aperion, Salk, or any ID company make me a speaker that looks like the 802D2 or 207/2?

Salk can, yup.

Who is going to build the (B&W 802D2) cabinet for them ?

They'll build it themselves (Salk).

The end result is the consumer has more great choices and it makes the market even more competitive.

And that's what it's all about. More competition is better for us consumers IMO.

 

[Steve81]

And that's what it's all about. More competition is better for us consumers IMO.

Can't argue with that!

 

[cschang]

Some ID companies have huge marketing budgets far exceeding the price of printed marketing literature from their B&M competitors.

The reality is some ID companies have very thin margins while others use the ID model to reward themselves with higher than usual profit margins.

Now that many B&M companies are also selling online, this opens up more competition.

The end result is the consumer has more great choices and it makes the market even more competitive.

Agreed!

But a B&M company selling online, can not undercut its retailers. So whatever the retailer markup is, the B&M company is going to get that as well.

So if the retailer markup is 40-60%...and it is, the B&M is getting that in its online sales up and above what it makes when selling to the retailer.

 

[ahblaza]

I contacted ARX a month or so ago about a review and got a kinda weird response about how they were banned from our forum, something I didn't even know happened. To be honest, I forgot to follow through but if we can get enough info on their shipping and return policies, we will surely add them as another online brand. Their products appear to offer solid construction and parts for a great value so they deserve to be there. thanks.

Gene,
There was some type of fiasco here awhile back, I don't think you were aware of it. A lot of ARX bashing and other ID brands as well, along with I think inappropriate behaviour. To my knowledge Jon Lane (TAI) owner and Buford were banned from posting here at AH by an unknown to me moderator (s). I am aware that you have contacted Jon, but I'm not real sure if he is aware that you were not responsible or had anything to do with the banning. It seems to me that you are now just hearing this, I hope it does not deter you contacting him again with a follow up offer. The Arx line does truly offer some excellent products with solid construction, high quality parts with very good design implementation at an affordable value. I own two of the newer models ARX A5 and A1b. Shipping is pretty much standard with thirty day in home trial with buyer paying return shipping and a five year warranty on everything. More info here, I hope this issue can be resolved, I can highly reco the ARX line and would like to be able to do so without conflict. I have discussed the ARX line of loudspeakers at AH openly and they were well received with civil conversation. That's encouraging..
I hope this link will help.
The Audio Insider
Thank you, Jeff

PS...I am in no way affiliated with TAI nor do I work for them in any capacity.

 

[GranteedEV]

What I'm talking about is the fancy cabinets like the B&W 802D2, KEF 207/2, Revel Salon2, etc.

So if I must have the B&W 802D2, not any other curved cabinets, and I don't want them to be made in China, can Aperion, Salk, or any ID company make me a speaker that looks like the 802D2 or 207/2?

Whether the answer is yes or no, the point is that your agument has ZILCH to do with ID vs B&M. If the 207/2 cabinet aesthetics are the value added for you, then it wouldn't matter to you if it were B&M, or ID.

And ID companies cannot accommodate this niche.

There's a lot of niches. One such niche is the RAAL 70-20XR ribbon tweeter. A stock 800D can't accomodate this niche. There's the unique polar response of a Nao Note. Neither B&M nor ID can accomodate that one. If you want to look for a specific design then you're forced to go whatever way you have to go. But that is not something inherent of the format. If I want a Lexus Hybrid SUV, of course I won't get it from Audi. That doesn't mean Japanese SUVs have an inherent edge over German SUVs. Preference is not a rational thing, so why try to rationalize it by saying brick and mortar offers x preffered aspect. If you know what you want, you're not a person making a decision.

And I don't think the quality of the Aperion "piano gloss" is equivalent to the piano gloss of the B&W 802D2, KEF 207/2, Revel Salon2, Salk Soundscape, etc.

Maybe not. Of course, to me this Aperion 6T finish looks pretty damn adequate:

 

[cschang]

Maybe not. Of course, to me this Aperion 6T finish looks pretty damn adequate:

To be fair though, you can not judge a "piano gloss" finish from a picture.

I have seen great piano gloss from China, US, and Europe.....and I have seen pretty lousy ones as well. I don't think origin has much to do with it...or B&M vs ID when it comes to fit and finish.

 

[fuzz092888]

Try re-reading the article again. Salk and SVS are there. Outlaw doesn't have any current speaker products, just subs ATM.

EDIT: Sorry 3db beat me to it.

What about these? Don't these count as speakers?

Outlaw Audio OSB-1 Sound Bar

BLS Bookshelf Loudspeakers

Outlaw Audio LCR Loudspeakers

 

[GranteedEV]

Gene,
There was some type of fiasco here awhile back, I don't think you were aware of it. A lot of ARX bashing and other ID brands as well, along with I think inappropriate behaviour. To my knowledge Jon Lane (TAI) owner and Buford were banned from posting here at AH by an unknown to me moderator (s).

Buford T Justice's attitude in that thread (ARX Tower Prototypes) kind of rubbed off on me the wrong way. But I think Jon Lane got caught up unfairly just for being the owner/designer for ARX.

To be fair though, you can not judge a "piano gloss" finish from a picture.

Maybe not. But the review I pulled that picture from had this to say

" The gloss was so perfect it was a veritable black mirror in our listening room, making the speakers out to be more pieces of furniture than audio instruments. "

 

[ahblaza]

Buford T Justice's attitude in that thread (ARX Tower Prototypes) kind of rubbed off on me the wrong way. But I think Jon Lane got caught up unfairly just for being the owner/designer for ARX.



Maybe not. But the review I pulled that picture from had this to say

" The gloss was so perfect it was a veritable black mirror in our listening room, making the speakers out to be more pieces of furniture than audio instruments. "

Thanks for the clarification...........ARX Prototype

 

[cschang]

Maybe not. But the review I pulled that picture from had this to say

" The gloss was so perfect it was a veritable black mirror in our listening room, making the speakers out to be more pieces of furniture than audio instruments. "

Yeah...but the reviewer saw it in person.

 

[greatdavide]

But are they close to the Revel or B&W finish? Yeah!!!

Yeah...but the reviewer saw it in person.

That's the point though ... The question was if the finish quality was on par with B&M. So the reviewer has almost undoubtedly seen both Revels and B&Ms and was impressed. And that's the beauty of ID. Go ahead and audition them for 30 days! Than you can hear, see and experience them first hand.

And I don't think the quality of the Aperion "piano gloss" is equivalent to the piano gloss of the B&W 802D2, KEF 207/2, Revel Salon2, Salk Soundscape, etc.

I'll be the third to tell you Aperions finishes are top notch and I've seen the B&Ws and Revels. But seriously you don't have to sit and wonder you can audition them... for free...

 

[Kali157]

What I'm talking about is a niche market.

I'm not talking about just ANY curved generic cabinets from China.

What I'm talking about is the fancy cabinets like the B&W 802D2, KEF 207/2, Revel Salon2, etc.

So if I must have the B&W 802D2, not any other curved cabinets, and I don't want them to be made in China, can Aperion, Salk, or any ID company make me a speaker that looks like the 802D2 or 207/2?

Who is going to build the (B&W 802D2) cabinet for them ?

I realize for most people, this isn't the case. But they do exist. And ID companies cannot accommodate this niche.

And I don't think the quality of the Aperion "piano gloss" is equivalent to the piano gloss of the B&W 802D2, KEF 207/2, Revel Salon2, Salk Soundscape, etc.

So for most folks, I suppose ID has no limitations. But for the niche market, ID has some limitations.

Okay, how about for speakers under $5K, ID has little limitations?

Based on your post, I KNOW that you in fact have NOT seen or heard Aperion in person. I have. I have also auditioned the B&W 802 bookshelves and towers. No, there isn't anything magical about B&W finish and would put it side by side with Aperion any day.

Or are you faulting other companies for not making speaker cabinets EXACTLY like a B&W? That seems like an odd gripe.

The reason I originally asked my question was I was genuinely confused at your post. Seeing that you OWN the 802 whose-quality-no-ID-company-can-touch, the true motive of your post becomes clearer.

Oh, and "most folks" do not believe that ID companies' offerings have no limitations based on other forums I frequent. Sure, there are some fanboys, but you understand that don't you. I run Axiom QS8s surrounds, and I think their finish is lacking (refinished it myself). But the sound is pretty good for against other surrounds I auditioned in my price range.

 

[FirstReflection]

I didn't see NHT (Now Hear This) get any sort of mention yet. Is it really possibly I'm the first person to mention them in this thread? That almost never happens to me. I'm always the one who's late to the party on ID brands...



In all seriousness though, NHT is worthy of being added to this list, methinks

EDIT: I'll second a motion to get Magnepan added to the list as well. Their MMG, MMG W, and MMG C are all available exclusively through direct sales from Magnepan - no dealers involved at all with those models. Then they've got their new, rather confusing "Dealer Direct" program for the Motorized MMC 2, Mini Maggie Desktop System, and Magenplanar Bass Panel products. The "Dealer Direct" thing seems very convoluted. You have to call the Magnepan dealer that is physically closest to you (except good luck figuring out who that is!), and you have to call Magnepan, too. The 30-day in home trial and sale of the products are all handled by the dealer, but Magnepan acts as their shipping/returns department, shipping the products to you directly from their factory, and taking them back at their factory as well if you return them within the 30-day window. But if you keep the products, the dealer gets the money. So yeah, confusing as heck! But the MMG products are just direct from Magnepan all the way. So I think the MMG series qualifies Magnepan for this list

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sure, there are some fanboys, but you understand that don't you.

Why, yes I do.

 

[Kali157]

I do wish free shipping (at least one way) is more of a standard since it is difficult to audition these speakers without a commitment.

Why, yes I do.

Wow, I didn't expect that. Well I guess admitting you have a problem is the first step.

Didn't mean to get on you. But as someone relatively new to the audio game (maybe 3-4 yrs), its quite misleading to those trying to learn when more "experienced" members spout off their opinions on equipment as fact... only to find out they have not been within 100 ft of the equipment they are ranking.

If you have heard it/seen it in person, then I am sure your opinion would be appreciated, even if you have a slight slant towards speakers you own (who doesn't, right?).

 

[gene]

Brands Not Included? HELP US!

All;

Updating this article is quite tedious but perhaps you can help us do it.

If you feel an ID brand should be included that isn't here, please provide the brand name and metrics for each cell in the table. Then if you could provide a 1-2 paragraph summary like we have for the other manufacturers, we could have complete info to publish. Please double check your data for accuracy.

Once I have the info, I will also try to email the manufacturer to have them look it over too. My goal is to cover as many relevant brands as possible and have a single place for consumers to go prior to making a purchasing decision to compare the brands various policies and perks.

thanks.

 

[Alex2507]

To be fair though, you can not judge a "piano gloss" finish from a picture.

Yeah...but the reviewer saw it in person.

I had a pair of Aperion 5DB something or others and they were astounding looking and sounding for that matter. Out of the various gear I've had that was one of the few things I never took apart for fear of marring it with any imperfection. I can't think of anything nearly as perfect in terms of furniture except maybe some cigar humidors.

 

[FirstReflection]

Okey doke. I'll take a stab and getting NHT added to the list

Brand: NHT (now hear this!)

Homepage link: High End Speakers & Stereo Equipment | Subwoofers, Home Theater Systems

Speaker: Classic "Four" Floor Standing Tower (left and right are mirror imaged)

Shipping: Free (within USA)

Trial Period: 30 days

Return Shipping: Free (within USA)

Warranty Coverage: 5 year passive speakers/3 year powered speakers, subwoofers, amps, etc.

Transferable Warranty: No

Standard Finish Options: "Piano High Gloss" Black

Upgraded Finish: No

Optional Upgrades: No

Other: NA

Description: NHT (now hear this!) began selling speakers in 1987. Their motto is "high-end, not high-price". NHT sells their products directly via their online store, as well as through their network of authorized dealers. But all sales ship directly from NHT's factory. Dealers are encouraged to show but not stock products in order to keep costs to a minimum.

NHT focuses on sealed enclosures and all aluminum drivers. Speakers are available in one finish only: high gloss black. NHT offers free shipping, a 30 day trial, and free return shipping within the USA. Warranty claims are all handled directly by NHT with a 5 year parts and labor warranty on passive speakers, and a 3 year warranty on powered products. Warranties are not transferable, but NHT can provide out-of-warranty repairs at reasonable prices at their Service Center in Benicia, California.

 

[gene]

Okey doke. I'll take a stab and getting NHT added to the list

Brand: NHT (now hear this!)

Homepage link: High End Speakers & Stereo Equipment | Subwoofers, Home Theater Systems

Speaker: Classic "Four" Floor Standing Tower (left and right are mirror imaged)

Shipping: Free (within USA)

Trial Period: 30 days

Return Shipping: Free (within USA)

Warranty Coverage: 5 year passive speakers/3 year powered speakers, subwoofers, amps, etc.

Transferable Warranty: No

Standard Finish Options: "Piano High Gloss" Black

Upgraded Finish: No

Optional Upgrades: No

Other: NA

Description: NHT (now hear this!) began selling speakers in 1987. Their motto is "high-end, not high-price". NHT sells their products directly via their online store, as well as through their network of authorized dealers. But all sales ship directly from NHT's factory. Dealers are encouraged to show but not stock products in order to keep costs to a minimum.

NHT focuses on sealed enclosures and all aluminum drivers. Speakers are available in one finish only: high gloss black. NHT offers free shipping, a 30 day trial, and free return shipping within the USA. Warranty claims are all handled directly by NHT with a 5 year parts and labor warranty on passive speakers, and a 3 year warranty on powered products. Warranties are not transferable, but NHT can provide out-of-warranty repairs at reasonable prices at their Service Center in Benicia, California.

Awesome Job. I added NHT to our article. If you care to do some more writing for us, send me a PM

 

[greatdavide]

You're a rock Star!

All;

Updating this article is quite tedious but perhaps you can help us do it.

If you feel an ID brand should be included that isn't here, please provide the brand name and metrics for each cell in the table. Then if you could provide a 1-2 paragraph summary like we have for the other manufacturers, we could have complete info to publish. Please double check your data for accuracy.

Once I have the info, I will also try to email the manufacturer to have them look it over too. My goal is to cover as many relevant brands as possible and have a single place for consumers to go prior to making a purchasing decision to compare the brands various policies and perks.

thanks.

This is what keeps us coming back Gene. You're awesome!