I thought DENON was reliable?

[JimmyTango]

What?

You mean I can't expect it to work even after I pour water on it, throw it on the ground and stomp on it?

Yeah, I should not physically abuse my $5,500 component. What was I thinking?

Did I mention abusing the equipment at any point? Did I say anything to warrant a smart mouthed reply?

Toyota, historically one of the most reliable auto manufacturers out there has had one of the largest recalls ever. That does not mean they are no longer reliable? No, it does not.

No matter how reliable a company or product line is, they will still have a % that fails.

 

[Pyrrho]

Okay, so I bought the Denon AVR-5308CI brand new from J&R Music World about 1.5 yrs ago - still under the 2 yr warranty period.

All of the sudden this weekend, HDMI Inputs 1-3 did not work at all!

But HDMI Inputs 4-6 still works.

It makes me wonder why anyone should buy a BRAND new so-called "reliable" brand from JAPAN and still require repair after only 1.5 yrs?

I could have bought a refurbished for 1/2 the price, and it could very well be just as reliable or unreliable.

Now I'm going to have to send it to the MAIN Repair Center in New Jersey, which will cost me about $65.

That is disappointing, but the main problem is you are judging by one example, which can never give you a good idea of what the reliability is overall. Unless Denon has changed their ways, you are just unlucky, assuming you have not abused it or simply have some settings wrong that make you mistakenly believe a perfectly good unit is malfunctioning (which I doubt, but I mention for the sake of completeness).

If I were buying a new receiver, I would consider a Denon (among other brands). My last two home theater receivers have been Yamaha, and I have been very happy with both of them, so I am not a Denon fanboy. A couple of other brands I would consider are Marantz and Pioneer.

With the receiver you have, I would be unhappy, but I would not be too quick to judge Denon harshly from this.

Do you want to trade your Denon, after the fix, for my Yamaha RX-V2700 (which works perfectly, as far as I can tell, and has never needed any repairs), with me paying the $65 shipping cost that you are incurring? If you are nearby, I will even be willing to make the drive for the trade. Just send me a PM if you are interested.

 

[WillH]

What?

You mean I can't expect it to work even after I pour water on it, throw it on the ground and stomp on it?

Yeah, I should not physically abuse my $5,500 component. What was I thinking?

Maybe you should have used the spray setting on your hose instead of the flood setting!

I feel your pain, dude.

It is a major hassle to get an AVR or AVP repaired as it is the center piece of most of our systems. Due to the heavy weight and the multitude of connections, it is not only a physical problem to deal with, it is a big time inconvenience to pull it out of the system, box it, lug it, wait a few weeks for repairs, unbox it and then put it all back together. Lugging 40-70 pounds around ain't fun. Then you have lost the use of the gear for a time too. It almost becomes like our cars - Not only in terms of ticket price but major inconvenience. At least with my car, I don't have to swap cables.

I just designed a special listening room in my house with 'gear swapping' in mind. I have a rack on rollers that fits into a special-made closet. I can roll the whole rack out of the closet into the room in about 5 mins. Still an aggravation should something konk out but much better than having to contort my body around the backs of a cabinet to wire it up.

I asked for an extended warranty for my new AVP but couldn't get one from the dealer or Denon. Would like to see at least 5 years on the Denon AVP.

Before I started using Denon gear, I went through about 4 Harman Kardon receivers in a row that were bad before finally giving up on that brand entirely. They were all made in China. At least my AVP is made in Japan.

 

[highfigh]

UPS' business model is that they have very very cheap and heavily marketed shipping for united states vendors to the point where they have a pseudo monopoly on the courier industry in a sense. However that's specifically for the U.S.A. As soon as their packages leave that country it's a whole nother ball game, try and read the UPS brokerage horror stories online - car aficionados in particular find themselves driving down to USA border storages just so they don't get slapped with a brokerage fee that cost more than the actual value of the part they just ordered.

UPS ramps up prices for people receiving in other countries, something the receivers have no control over. The problem is, many online vendors simply don't use other shipping methods. USPS doesn't insure packages leaving the country (which makes sense mind you, since at that point it's a different courier's responsibility) so often times, UPS is "the only" option. However UPS doesn't lose customers in this respect because it doesn't affect Americans, and it's Americans who are using UPS to send.

Re: Box banged up - I don't know where it got banged up, but it was all UPS either way.

Like I said, I went to the customs office to pay my duties mysel because duties do not need to be the shipper's problem. I gave customs the 24 dollars in duties and taxes that they asked me to pay them. Then I go to UPS and they want me to

1) Pay them the taxes I just paid
2) Pay them a $35 duty that I didn't just pay because the customs office examined the information about the product and concluded there was no duty on it.
3) Pay them a ~55-60 dollar fee so that they can go to customs for me as my customs broker and "take care of business" for me. Even though I was perfectly fine with doing this myself, they were virtually trying to force me to use them as a broker at every stage of the game.

Nobody has to use any particular shipper and Parts Express has changed from UPS to FedEx, which I actually don't like. I can track parcels much more easily with UPS and I have had very few issues with anything that has been shipped to me, or have shipped out. The only times anything came to me with damage was when it wasn't packed well. As far as brokerage fees, that's part of having someone do things for you and it's hardly UPS's fault- it's part of being across a national border. It's too bad you couldn't find what you want in Canada, though.

At least one of my suppliers has changed to a shipper other than UPS and I really don't have a problem with any of them but again, how it's packed makes a huge difference. I don't have any experience with paying anyone to go to the entry point for duties, fees, etc but I have a friend who brings electronics into the US- I'll have to talk to him so I have more info or if he has some advise about how to avoid the nightmares you're having.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Did I mention abusing the equipment at any point? Did I say anything to warrant a smart mouthed reply?

Toyota, historically one of the most reliable auto manufacturers out there has had one of the largest recalls ever. That does not mean they are no longer reliable? No, it does not.

No matter how reliable a company or product line is, they will still have a % that fails.

Sorry, I took it the wrong way. It must have been one of those days.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you want to trade your Denon, after the fix, for my Yamaha RX-V2700 (which works perfectly, as far as I can tell, and has never needed any repairs), with me paying the $65 shipping cost that you are incurring? If you are nearby, I will even be willing to make the drive for the trade. Just send me a PM if you are interested.

No, but thanks for the offer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, 2010 must be my bad-luck year!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Maybe you should have used the spray setting on your hose instead of the flood setting!

I feel your pain, dude.

It is a major hassle to get an AVR or AVP repaired as it is the center piece of most of our systems. Due to the heavy weight and the multitude of connections, it is not only a physical problem to deal with, it is a big time inconvenience to pull it out of the system, box it, lug it, wait a few weeks for repairs, unbox it and then put it all back together. Lugging 40-70 pounds around ain't fun. Then you have lost the use of the gear for a time too. It almost becomes like our cars - Not only in terms of ticket price but major inconvenience. At least with my car, I don't have to swap cables.

I just designed a special listening room in my house with 'gear swapping' in mind. I have a rack on rollers that fits into a special-made closet. I can roll the whole rack out of the closet into the room in about 5 mins. Still an aggravation should something konk out but much better than having to contort my body around the backs of a cabinet to wire it up.

I asked for an extended warranty for my new AVP but couldn't get one from the dealer or Denon. Would like to see at least 5 years on the Denon AVP.

Before I started using Denon gear, I went through about 4 Harman Kardon receivers in a row that were bad before finally giving up on that brand entirely. They were all made in China. At least my AVP is made in Japan.

Yeah, duplicity, redundancy, and plan-B is the order of the day.

I was thinking that with both the AVR-5308 & AVP-A1, I would have plan-B covered.

Did you know that all of the Denon 100 yr anniversary gears that are coming out soon will have the 5 yr warranty?

Seems kind of unfair, but I guess life is unfair.

 

[JimmyTango]

Yeah, duplicity, redundancy, and plan-B is the order of the day.

I was thinking that with both the AVR-5308 & AVP-A1, I would have plan-B covered.

Did you know that all of the Denon 100 yr anniversary gears that are coming out soon will have the 5 yr warranty?

Seems kind of unfair, but I guess life is unfair.

Yeah, but that warrany is a $500 premium. From what i can tell, that receiver is nothing more than a 4311 with glossy faceplate and a longer warranty.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, but that warrany is a $500 premium. From what i can tell, that receiver is nothing more than a 4311 with glossy faceplate and a longer warranty.

I didn't realize that $500 premium.
Okay, so it's a $2,500 "rebadged" AVR-4311 receiver with a 5 yr warranty, but their $5,500 flagship AVR-5308 only has a 2 yr warranty.

Go figure!

And on top of that, their $7,500 Pre-pro & $7,500 amp only have a 3 yr warranty.

It ssems a tad bit unfair, but as they say, life is indeed unfair.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I guess if I'm stupid enough to own a AVR-5308 & AVP-A1 instead of something a lot more practical, economic, and smart, I should just keep my mouth shut.

Just because of my own bad luck, I should not say that Denon is NOT reliable -- 3 refurbished Denons from Ecost (AVR4810, AVR4308, AVP-1) all arrived DOA; 1 brand new AVP-A1 from Onecall had scratches all over the face; my AVR-5308 had 3 defective HDMIs.

I guess I should just say that anything can happen.

It's just something to talk about, and I wanted to share my experience.

 

[KEW]

I didn't realize that $500 premium.
Okay, so it's a $2,500 "rebadged" AVR-4311 receiver with a 5 yr warranty, but their $5,500 flagship AVR-5308 only has a 2 yr warranty.

Go figure!

And on top of that, their $7,500 Pre-pro & $7,500 amp only have a 3 yr warranty.

It ssems a tad bit unfair, but as they say, life is indeed unfair.

A Jaguar costs a lot more than a Honda, and unlike audio components, everyone knows the Honda is more reliable, but people still buy Jaguars!

 

[GranteedEV]

A Jaguar costs a lot more than a Honda, and unlike audio components, everyone knows the Honda is more reliable, but people still buy Jaguars!

Yea but a $7500 prepro ain't getting you laid

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It has been eluded to before, but the more complex & sophisticated (& hence expensive) the components (& cars) are, the more risks they have of going wrong, which is another one of life's many ironies.

At one point, back in the days when I had 22 analog cables, I though about doing all Bryston analog components (3 pure analog integrated amps for 5.1) and getting that wonderful 20 yrs warranty.

But then HTPCs, HDMIs, & HDTVs pretty much changed my mind.

 

[markw]

Amps ain't the problem.

It has been eluded to before, but the more complex & sophisticated (& hence expensive) the components (& cars) are, the more risks they have of going wrong, which is another one of life's many ironies.

At one point, back in the days when I had 22 analog cables, I though about doing all Bryston analog components (3 pure analog integrated amps for 5.1) and getting that wonderful 20 yrs warranty.

But then HTPCs, HDMIs, & HDTVs pretty much changed my mind.

It's the digital multi-channel procesors that add the complexity.

Basic stereo audio is very happy with simple analog solutions.. Amps are practically prehistoric in their simplicity.

 

[highfigh]

I would bet that an IC for the video section went bad, possibly due to a power issue. The internal leads carrying power supply voltage/ground and the signal are incredibly thin and it doesn't take much of a surge to fuse one of them. With cable and satellite installers being so unwilling to ground their cables at the service entrance and having measured fairly high voltage/gotten zapped by the voltage on the shield, it has to take a toll on the other equipment.

 

[bandphan]

Here you go ADxx, a new American made toy

 

[Pyrrho]

I guess if I'm stupid enough to own a AVR-5308 & AVP-A1 instead of something a lot more practical, economic, and smart, I should just keep my mouth shut.

Just because of my own bad luck, I should not say that Denon is NOT reliable -- 3 refurbished Denons from Ecost (AVR4810, AVR4308, AVP-1) all arrived DOA; 1 brand new AVP-A1 from Onecall had scratches all over the face; my AVR-5308 had 3 defective HDMIs.

I guess I should just say that anything can happen.

It's just something to talk about, and I wanted to share my experience.

I apologize for saying that you were judging from only one instance (though you only mentioned the one in the opening post). Are all of those places authorized dealers? If so, I would start thinking Denon was not reliable, too. That is a pretty sad track record, though it still isn't really a proper sampling to judge the matter. But if it is not characteristic of Denon, you have terrible luck.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I apologize for saying that you were judging from only one instance (though you only mentioned the one in the opening post). Are all of those places authorized dealers? If so, I would start thinking Denon was not reliable, too. That is a pretty sad track record, though it still isn't really a proper sampling to judge the matter. But if it is not characteristic of Denon, you have terrible luck.

Yup, all those places are Denon authorized dealers.

I think it may just be my bad luck year.

It's pretty sad & bad luck when you buy a "brand new" $7,500 AVP-A1 from a Denon authorized dealer and it arrived all scratched up!

Gotta be bad luck.

Gotta be bad luck when you buy not 1, not 2, but 3 Denon components from the same authorized dealer (Ecost) and all 3 of them arrived DEAD.

To continue my bad luck streak, I also just bought a 2nd fefurbished Panasonic Toughbook CF-29 from Circuit City/Tiger Direct and it arrived looking like someone "knife" the hell out of it!

I also bought a 5 gallon water dispenser from amazon, and it never arrived after 2 weeks after it was "shipped"!

So I don't know.

Maybe it's not a Denon-reliablity issue. Maybe it's a combination of Ecost + UPS + bad luck!

 

[JimmyTango]

All you had to do was mention ecost. That is the issue.

i bought one item from them, a b-stock Denon 987(rebadged 2807). Will never buy from ecost again. They did not even ship it with the correct styro-foam, it was for a different unit.

Parents bought some laptop. Shattered screen and missing keys. Again, b-stock.

Friend bought some all in one HT in a box. Missing components. Again.... b-stock.

The 3808 I got from 6av(a-stock, unlike ecost) worked perfectly with no issues besides the damn DirecTV installer not grounding the COAX from the dish into the house. Needless to say, it blew the HDMI board on the 3808. Thats ok, DirecTV paid for the entire fix since it was their stupidity.

All you have to do for the real price of a Denon authorized online dealer is call them. I think the 3808 was a $1700 unit. Mine was $1050 shipped to my door. Again, brand new a-stock, authorized dealer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All you had to do was mention ecost. That is the issue.

DirecTV installer not grounding the COAX from the dish into the house. Needless to say, it blew the HDMI board on the 3808.

Yeah, Ecost is not the best.

Maybe the HDMI board on my 5308 had a similar cause...

I didn't realize that HDMI boards are so sensitive.

But now I will be 100% careful with HDMI inputs/outputs.

I will completely unplug the power cord from now on before even hooking up any inputs.

Besides grounding the wires from outside & surges, are there any other HDMI "precautions"?