I Give Up! Receiver Shopping Is Killing Me!

[DundeeScot78]

Greetings All,

This is my first post on this wonderful site, so I'd like to start by thanking the site management and contributors. It truly seems to be a great place.

Now to my problem.

Purchase of a 1080p projector and blu-ray player, and the march of technology in general are necessitating the replacement of my beloved Yamaha HTR-5940. I've read hundreds of ads, reviews, specs, and Internet threads (mainly here), and I'm just getting more and more confused. I'm even contemplating the purchase of an entry level ($200-300) unit, just so I can get my system up and running. It certainly won't be the end of the world if a year from now I end up selling it because I have a much better idea of what I need/want.

I need several HDMI slots, RCA inputs for my Sony CD changer, and good performance for music, movies, and games. Internet access, a 2nd zone, the ability to hook up an XP computer, and the ability to control it with my Android phone or iPad would be great, but aren't deal breakers.

My 24 year-old Denon and 8 year-old Yamaha sound great and have been bulletproof, so I'd like to stay with one of those brands, with Denon being my first choice. Denon's 1613 is available for $299, and I think it will meet my short/intermediate term needs. I can go up to $600+ if it makes sense to do so. What other info would help narrow this down? TIA.

 

[fmw]

I'm not up to date with the various models and truthfully don't have any interest in it. Basically, if you have a powered subwoofer, power isn't a major issue. A low powered AVR will do just fine. Most of the amplifier power is used to reproduce the bass frequencies. Given that, then it is an issue of the connectivity and the specific features you need or want. If the $299 model does what you need, I think it will do just fine, even over the long haul, as long as you don't overdrive it.

 

[KEW]

You need to tell us what speakers you have, what size (LXWXH) your room is, and how loud you listen (and type of music).
FMW's power comments are generally true, but some speakers require more than a typical receiver can offer - especially if you are playing loud in a large room.

Like FMW, I don't keep up with HT features on receivers, but someone who can help you on that count should be along shortly.

Also, if you have not yet, check Accessories4less.com for some great prices on factory refurbished electronics with factory warranty.
I have bought 12 units from them and been satisfied with every one - to all appearance they were new and no failures.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I use a Denon remote on my iPad to control my Denon AVRs. It works great.

I also stream Apple Lossless (ALAC) music files directly from my iPad to my Denon via AirPlay.

So I would recommend a Denon or Marantz AVR. But unlike other fellow members here, I only recommend either brand new or open box AVR (full factory warranty).

I would call around (Electronics Expo, OneCall, Vanns, etc) and see if they have any Denon 3312/ 3313 for around $600 new or $500 open box. If you talk to them on the phone and let them know others have gotten similar deals, they will negotiate with you.

One time Amazon was selling the Denon 3312 brand new for $550 delivered. They also sold the 3312 open box a few times for $493 delivered.

 

[DundeeScot78]

Thank you. Here's some additional info:

Room is 18x15x7
Fronts are currently Polk Monitor 10's
Center is Polk CSI Series II
Def Tech ProSub 800
No surrounds

I'm contemplating purchase of the Pioneer SP-FS52 towers/SP-BS22 bookshelf/SP-C22 center, although I haven't auditioned them yet. I listen to all kinds of music, but lean towards classic rock, and do occasionally crank it up. My Yamaha is 105 watts/channel, and I've never pushed it anywhere near it's limit.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thank you. Here's some additional info:

Room is 18x15x7
Fronts are currently Polk Monitor 10's
Center is Polk CSI Series II
Def Tech ProSub 800
No surrounds

I'm contemplating purchase of the Pioneer SP-FS52 towers/SP-BS22 bookshelf/SP-C22 center, although I haven't auditioned them yet. I listen to all kinds of music, but lean towards classic rock, and do occasionally crank it up. My Yamaha is 105 watts/channel, and I've never pushed it anywhere near it's limit.

Those Pioneer speakers are fine. A $300-400 AVR is fine.

I didn't realize your overall budget when I mentioned the Denon 3312/3313.

 

[DundeeScot78]

No problem, as I did say I could go up to $600. I'm not locked into the Pioneers, but I'm fascinated by them because they sell for significantly less than I paid for my Polks 24 years ago.

Will a 3313 sound better? Pass through a better TV signal?

Those Pioneer speakers are fine. A $300-400 AVR is fine.

I didn't realize your overall budget when I mentioned the Denon 3312/3313.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No problem, as I did say I could go up to $600. I'm not locked into the Pioneers, but I'm fascinated by them because they sell for significantly less than I paid for my Polks 24 years ago.

Will a 3313 sound better? Pass through a better TV signal?

It has more power and more capability like Pure Direct 2.1 & Direct 2.1 whereas lower models may only have Pure Direct 2.0 & Direct 2.0, if you are interested in that sort of things.

Will the Denon 3313 sound better than a $300 Pioneer in Direct mode? I'm going to say "No" most do the time.

I don't know about the iPad apps for Pioneer, but the Denon app for iPad is stellar.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Welcome.

No need for an Emergency room visit. You came to the right place to be cured. We can diagnose and treat you on the Internet without a face to face visit and save that office visit cost.

 

[DundeeScot78]

Thanks, I'm in your hands. I'm feeling much better after finding the Yamaha RX-V673 for $399 today, although I still like the idea of the Audessy MultEQ that comes with the Denons....

Welcome.

No need for an Emergency room visit. You came to the right place to be cured. We can diagnose and treat you on the Internet without a face to face visit and save that office visit cost.

 

[KEW]

Thank you. Here's some additional info:

Room is 18x15x7
Fronts are currently Polk Monitor 10's
Center is Polk CSI Series II
Def Tech ProSub 800
No surrounds

I'm contemplating purchase of the Pioneer SP-FS52 towers/SP-BS22 bookshelf/SP-C22 center, although I haven't auditioned them yet. I listen to all kinds of music, but lean towards classic rock, and do occasionally crank it up. My Yamaha is 105 watts/channel, and I've never pushed it anywhere near it's limit.

Based on your experience with your current unit. You should be fine on power (most receivers like you describe offer 85W or more). If you switch to the Pioneers, they are an easy load.

On the topic of refurbished gear, it is my opinion that the company selling the item is key. You will note that I did not recommend simply looking for a deal on refurb gear.
For one of the units I bought, I had a "brain-fart" and misunderstood it's operation. Short story is I thought it was defective and A4L replaced it quickly without treating me like I was trying to scam them. That is the reason I ended up buying so much stuff through them - great customer service.
I would not buy refurbished gear from companies who are large scale clearing houses (like Damark or One Call). Those are the companies which have given audio refurb's a bad name.
It is disappointing that ADTG is discouraging you categorically on refurbs, because he knows so many people here who have been happy with their refurbs from A4L. I do not have any memory of any post where someone felt like A4L did them dirty. If you search for Accessorie4less on this site, you will find comments to back me up.

I'm feeling much better after finding the Yamaha RX-V673 for $399 today, although I still like the idea of the Audessy MultEQ that comes with the Denons....

At $400, I would consider one of these:
DENON AVR-2113CI 7.1ch Networking Receiver w/AirPlay 3D Ready | Accessories4less

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is disappointing that ADTG is discouraging you categorically on refurbs...

Just telling people my feelings. More than one side to every story.

But Refurb gives you 1 yr warranty, whereas open-box gives you the full 3 yr warranty. So if the price of open-box vs Refurb is similar, I would get open-box.

 

[DundeeScot78]

Although I've been on this site for less than two weeks, I've seen many recommendations to use Accesories4less, and nothing negative. The 2113ci looks interesting, as it has all the features I'm interested in and a couple I haven't considered. Denon's site says it has "Variable Multi-Zone Pre-amp Outputs". What exactly does that mean? Also, I'd probably want an extended warranty. Do you have experience with their "Leaf" warranty?

Based on your experience with your current unit. You should be fine on power (most receivers like you describe offer 85W or more). If you switch to the Pioneers, they are an easy load.

On the topic of refurbished gear, it is my opinion that the company selling the item is key. You will note that I did not recommend simply looking for a deal on refurb gear.
For one of the units I bought, I had a "brain-fart" and misunderstood it's operation. Short story is I thought it was defective and A4L replaced it quickly without treating me like I was trying to scam them. That is the reason I ended up buying so much stuff through them - great customer service.
I would not buy refurbished gear from companies who are large scale clearing houses (like Damark or One Call). Those are the companies which have given audio refurb's a bad name.
It is disappointing that ADTG is discouraging you categorically on refurbs, because he knows so many people here who have been happy with their refurbs from A4L. I do not have any memory of any post where someone felt like A4L did them dirty. If you search for Accessorie4less on this site, you will find comments to back me up.



At $400, I would consider one of these:
DENON AVR-2113CI 7.1ch Networking Receiver w/AirPlay 3D Ready | Accessories4less

 

[KEW]

Denon's site says it has "Variable Multi-Zone Pre-amp Outputs". What exactly does that mean? Also, I'd probably want an extended warranty. Do you have experience with their "Leaf" warranty?

I believe it means there are pre-amp outs which have and independent volume control so you can play music in another room at whatever volume level is desired. It always seems wrong not to have a vol control in the room you are in, but I'm sure there are situations where this is really handy.

Electronics will generally fail pretty quickly or be good for the long haul. As long as you plan to use it steadily, I would say skip the extended warranty. OTOH, you'll still be way below the cost of a new unit if it gives you peace of mind with the refurb...
You can probably google Leaf warranty and find out a bit more.

Definitely research it first, some of these require you pay shipping both ways and may not guarantee a specific time frame for repairs. Shipping plus cost for the warranty is getting close to 1/3 the cost of the unit, and two years from now you might be looking for an excuse to upgrade to holographic capability (I wish!).

 

[tiburcio]

Although I've been on this site for less than two weeks, I've seen many recommendations to use Accesories4less, and nothing negative. The 2113ci looks interesting, as it has all the features I'm interested in and a couple I haven't considered. Denon's site says it has "Variable Multi-Zone Pre-amp Outputs". What exactly does that mean? Also, I'd probably want an extended warranty. Do you have experience with their "Leaf" warranty?

They are terrible andShady specially if things goes wrong. I'll avoid them at all cost.

I got an Onkyo receiver from them and was dead on Arrival. Then the nightmare starts. First the return/replace policy is horrible. You need to take care of shipping, they will take their time, and at their will they will decide if they refund or not. The customer support for returns is always busy so I ended up calling sales. The guy was not apologetic at all about sending a defective product and basically told me that I don't want a replacement then is my problem. His statements are also unnaturally obtuse: "When you buy online you roll chance and you need to deal with it..."... What? Its my fault to got a lucky broken product?

Where its my fault to buy from them and not from Google or Amazon. There one reason only why amazon is dominating and this guys are dying. Amazon has the consumer always first.

Stay away from this guys...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They are terrible andShady specially if things goes wrong. I'll avoid them at all cost.

I got an Onkyo receiver from them and was dead on Arrival. Then the nightmare starts. First the return/replace policy is horrible. You need to take care of shipping, they will take their time, and at their will they will decide if they refund or not. The customer support for returns is always busy so I ended up calling sales. The guy was not apologetic at all about sending a defective product and basically told me that I don't want a replacement then is my problem. His statements are also unnaturally obtuse: "When you buy online you roll chance and you need to deal with it..."... What? Its my fault to got a lucky broken product?

Where its my fault to buy from them and not from Google or Amazon. There one reason only why amazon is dominating and this guys are dying. Amazon has the consumer always first.

Stay away from this guys...

Personally I would never buy refurbished AVR either.

Some guys seem to have good luck with A4L, but I would personally never even venture.

I would just wait for an open-box item from Amazon (full Denon Warranty or free hassle-free 30-day returns) or wait for clearance where the price is 50% off or more - like the Denon 4520 for $1K, etc.

 

[herbu]

They are terrible andShady specially if things goes wrong. I'll avoid them at all cost.

DundeeScot78,
As you know, the internet is full of conflicting opinions, and this forum is no exception. Regarding A4L, here you have a guy with 2 posts who recommends staying away. On the other hand, you have dozens of guys with many thousand posts and years on this forum that speak quite highly of A4L after repeated transactions. When researching on the web, I tend to look for a preponderance of evidence. While I've never had any dealings with A4L, I would tend to trust them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DundeeScot78,
As you know, the internet is full of conflicting opinions, and this forum is no exception. Regarding A4L, here you have a guy with 2 posts who recommends staying away. On the other hand, you have dozens of guys with many thousand posts and years on this forum that speak quite highly of A4L after repeated transactions. When researching on the web, I tend to look for a preponderance of evidence. While I've never had any dealings with A4L, I would tend to trust them.

I have over 17K posts and I wouldn't trust them, especially if I can find a similar price as new or open-box item.

There are people with good experiences and there are people with bad experiences. I've heard mainly good things about A4L, but it is not 100% all good. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise. It doesn't matter to me if they have 2 posts or 20K posts.

 

[herbu]

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise. It doesn't matter to me if they have 2 posts or 20K posts.

Agree... but preponderance is preponderance. Kinda like to actively bi-amp or not to actively bi-amp.
(Sorry... couldn't resist. )

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Agree... but preponderance is preponderance. Kinda like to actively bi-amp or not to actively bi-amp.
(Sorry... couldn't resist. )

Well, there is huge difference between worthless passive bi-amp and 100% FUNCTIONAL active bi-amp of the bass so you can easily control the bass level without messing around with any kind of EQ that can mess with the sound.

But what is the "majority" of the people who have had good experiences buying refurbished from A4L ? 4 people? 5 people? It's not like 100 people vs 2 people.