How do you all know which speakers produce a "colored" sound and which ones do not?

[addictaudio]

I keep reading about how some speakers produce a colored sound, while others are more true to the source of sound. Is this speculation and hearsay? The reason that I ask, is because isn't all music and sound that we listen coming from a particular speaker, and not from the actual source? How can anyone make a determination in regards as to what is actual colored sound and what is not? For example, when playing a guitar or most other instruments along with vocals, aren't those sounds reproduced via a speaker one way or another? How can one determine if the sound coming from a particular speaker is colored or not, and if it represents the true source? A determination could only be made, if the listener could actually hear the true source sound first, and then compare as to how that is reproduced through several speakers.

In short, since we all hear music and sound coming from a particular speaker, and not from the true source, how can we make a determination in regards to if the sound is colored or not, if we do not have access to listen to the ACTUAL true source? Are we just comparing the sound reproduced from one speaker to another? For instance, when some say that Klipsch horns are colored, do they actually know this for a fact? Let us just say that in comparison to a B&W or Revel speaker, if the treble is more tame and less bright, who is to say that the actual true source sound is not supposed to sound like the Klipsch? Sorry for the rambling...

 

[Grador]

We can tell this using speaker measurements. The most basic is a frequency response graph. In this you run a sine sweep (a tone of either rising or falling frequency) through the speakers at a constant volume, measuring the volume output. If the speakers are perfect the volume will not change as the sweep is played. Another important characteristic is the decay time, or how long the tone takes to dissipate after you stop playing it. There are others.

It is not speculation on coloration because we know EXACTLY how the recorded material should play. That CD you're holding is a mathematical representation of sound waves, so we can measure the sound waves coming out if the speakers to see how different they are.

 

[Grador]

To tie it together, you can say a speaker is colored if it emphasizes a frequency range rather than producing an even response across all ranges. This is a bit simplistic, there is more to it than this, but it is the general idea.

 

[addictaudio]

Thanks Grador. Where in So. Cal. are you? Are you in the audio industry?

 

[Grador]

South end of ventura county, and far far from it. Just done way to much reading and tinkering in my free time.

 

[Swerd]

How can anyone make a determination in regards as to what is actual colored sound and what is not? For example, when playing a guitar or most other instruments along with vocals, aren't those sounds reproduced via a speaker one way or another?

Not all music is amplified through another speaker. Think of how a piano, acoustic guitar, or any unamplified instrument sounds. If the playback of recorded music sounds unbalanced, either bass heavy or treble heavy, then its colored.

If you aren't familiar with those sounds, think of the human voice. I think most anyone can recognize the difference in sound between an unamplified natural voice and a bass or treble heavy playback of a voice. Many speakers with an overemphasized midbass will make a male voice sound a bit too "boomy" or "chesty".

 

[Calvin Hobbes]

We can tell this using speaker measurements. The most basic is a frequency response graph. In this you run a sine sweep (a tone of either rising or falling frequency) through the speakers at a constant volume, measuring the volume output. If the speakers are perfect the volume will not change as the sweep is played. Another important characteristic is the decay time, or how long the tone takes to dissipate after you stop playing it. There are others.

It is not speculation on coloration because we know EXACTLY how the recorded material should play. That CD you're holding is a mathematical representation of sound waves, so we can measure the sound waves coming out if the speakers to see how different they are.

But, nobody listens to a flat frequency response from speakers.

 

[Grador]

But, nobody listens to a flat frequency response from speakers.

What exactly does that mean?

 

[Calvin Hobbes]

If one were to listen to a recording where the volume from the speakers are equal at all frequencies, the sound would be bright and for lack of a better term "dry."And the bass will be thin.

 

[JerryLove]

If one were to listen to a recording where the volume from the speakers are equal at all frequencies, the sound would be bright and for lack of a better term "dry."

You mean the sounds were all identical volume? That would be pink noise and a bad recording.

Do you mean that the speakers play all frequencies at the volume indicated by the waveform amplitude on the recording? That would sound accurate.

"Flat" means that: if fed a signal where all frequencies are the same amplitude, they are all produced at the same volume. Real recordings are not constant amplitude. A flat speaker will produce a sound which matches the recording.

Extensive testing by the likes of Toole and Olive have shown that flat responses are preferred by listeners.

 

[Grador]

If one were to listen to a recording where the volume from the speakers are equal at all frequencies, the sound would be bright and for lack of a better term "dry."And the bass will be thin.

As Jerry said, you're now getting into preference. But ignoring that, it would still be coloration, what you are doing is arguing for it, not stating that a flat speaker is uncolored.

 

[Calvin Hobbes]

You mean the sounds were all identical volume? That would be pink noise and a bad recording.

Do you mean that the speakers play all frequencies at the volume indicated by the waveform amplitude on the recording? That would sound accurate.

"Flat" means that: if fed a signal where all frequencies are the same amplitude, they are all produced at the same volume. Real recordings are not constant amplitude. A flat speaker will produce a sound which matches the recording.

Extensive testing by the likes of Toole and Olive have shown that flat responses are preferred by listeners.

This is an incorrect statement.

Floyd Toole and others have shown that a speaker which measures flat in an anechoic chamber will probably sound very nice in a real room. This is not the same as measuring flat in that real room.

A flat anechoic speaker will tend to have a higher bass level and rolled off treble when placed in a real room. This is what sounds correct, and what people like.

 

[Grador]

This is an incorrect statement.

Floyd Toole and others have shown that a speaker which measures flat in an anechoic chamber will probably sound very nice in a real room. This is not the same as measuring flat in that real room.

A flat anechoic speaker will tend to have a higher bass level and rolled off treble when placed in a real room. This is what sounds correct, and what people like.

And now you're talking about room interaction, not speaker coloration.

 

[Calvin Hobbes]

The OP is asking about sound from the speaker. The interaction with the room and what is heard is paramount to the discussion. Trying to simplify an answer to a very complicated question is a disservice to the discussion at hand.

The box is too large.

 

[Grador]

The OP is asking about sound from the speaker. The interaction with the room and what is heard is paramount to the discussion. Trying to simplify an answer to a very complicated question is a disservice to the discussion at hand.

The box is too large.

It is true that there is a lot more to it than that, which I stated in my initial response. Furthermore the room factors into the overall sound, not speaker coloration...which is a function of the speakers not the room. Room interactions will affect all speakers in a room.

 

[3db]

This is an incorrect statement.

Floyd Toole and others have shown that a speaker which measures flat in an anechoic chamber will probably sound very nice in a real room. This is not the same as measuring flat in that real room.

A flat anechoic speaker will tend to have a higher bass level and rolled off treble when placed in a real room. This is what sounds correct, and what people like.

Most people in this hobby try and achieve the flattest response possible through acoustic treatments, speaker placement, and through room correction software embedded into today's AVRs and pre pros

 

[Calvin Hobbes]

Most people in this hobby try and achieve the flattest response possible through acoustic treatments, speaker placement, and through room correction software embedded into today's AVRs and pre pros

The room correction software included with avr's do not try to achieve flat frequency response. They will have a gradual slope down from bass through treble. A flat in-room target response is not the target curve for room equalization.

 

[Steve81]

The room correction software included with avr's do not try to achieve flat frequency response. They will have a gradual slope down from bass through treble. A flat in-room target response is not the target curve for room equalization.

FWIW
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/94162-multeq-target-curves

 

[3db]

The room correction software included with avr's do not try to achieve flat frequency response. They will have a gradual slope down from bass through treble. A flat in-room target response is not the target curve for room equalization.

I think you are mistaken. I know for a fact that the YPAO in my Yamaha has a flat frequency response setting which tries to adjust for a flat frequency spectrum and does not purposely try to roll off the treble or the bass.

 

[Nuance AH]

All speakers color the sound, some just more so than others. Measurements are a fantastic reference in order to rule out a problematic design (badly colored from the start). After that listening is key, whether you have a reference or not (having one is better than not IMO). The best listening approach is to do so in your own room. If you like what you hear and think it matches your reference, then your goal has been achieved.

Speaker design is all about trade-offs, and each individual needs to determine which trade-offs they can live with.