Horn Speakers - Is tube amp desirable ?

[Tomorrow]

My post from a few nights ago seemed quite well put at the time, but considered in "the sober light of day", seems somewhat boorish. I should have offered my opinion in a less confrontational manner.

Tomorrow - sorry for the mix-up. Someone else used your quote, or something very like it, & I didn't realize you were the original author.

I do, however stand by my opinion that timetohunt should look at speaker placement & room treatment before amplification.

Well said!!

 

[westcott]

I have owned horn loaded speakers my whole life and have driven them with tube amps and solid state components.

Now I have not used the new hybrid tube amp units but the older designs were a lot of work, still had a high level of distortion, and were very hard to keep in tune to get consistent quality sound over time.

I know use solid state receivers on my two channel audio system using Altec Valencias and my Klipsch RF7 home theater system. The cleaner signal, better signal isolation, more power, and less time spent tweaking more than makes up for any of the "advantages" of tube amps IMO. They may of had more benefit on lesser quality horn loaded speakers but the clarity of the reference line makes even minimal sound floor noise very noticeable and far more of a concern.

 

[Ampdog]

Forget the false testaments praising clearly inferior technology that is of a much higher cost. Get a high power, highly stable solid state amp ....
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If you want tube distortion, you can even get a tube preamp designed for professional studio use that allows you to control the amount of distortion injected into the signal.

Well now, WmAx,

It is a little on the cold side here down south in the middle of the night to "face off"! Let me just say that I believe you are correct - only that you are perhaps mixing up the terms "technology" with "models"...that you have listened to? "Technology" here is hopefully limited to audio, and there have sure been enough tube amps that were "blameless". I designed and built some myself in the 50s - and that is not a boast at all, simply the reports of others. But then also there were some stinkers on the market - and still are, as also semiconductor amplifiers, I think you will concede!

These days I am also a semiconductor man, and agree with you there. Only isn't it somewhat contradictory to go to all the trouble to make (or buy) a Klipsch or such .... and then use a high-power amp anyway? That does not appear to be an optimal arrangement - but by and large, correct then.

The former in good spirit! My main point must be that it should be kept in mind that horns are particularly difficult to design with no audible phase distortion etc. Even the expensive h.f. types were never pleasant to my ears, compared. I had the impression that the large amount of reasonably pure sound eminating at first impression left a sense of awe; only later will the more subtle influences of listener fatigue-generating artifacts set in. But my experiences with horns were decades ago. I accept the experiences posted here.

I would also agree that there is no particular preference between a good semiconductor or tube amplifier (within its capabilities), although these days the latter is generally more expensive and quite hyped-up. But that word in italics ... that is where the trouble lies, imo. And not just at maximum output, sad to say.

 

[astrodon]

I drive my RF-83s with a Denon-3806 receiver and I am quite happy with the sound this combo produces, for both movies and music.

One thing to keep in mind with tubes, they burn out and will need to be replaced it time.

 

[pikers]

Why do tube amps pair so well with Klipsch horn loaded speakers? I have a theory, but I don't have the tests to prove my theory.

I'm sure we can figure out your bias er, I mean theory.

Klipsch are notorious for low impedance dips from what I hear, and the Reference series is no exeption. It is likely the RF-83 are more unstable than most speakers because they can't have every benifit of a dynamic driver. Meaning, it can't be efficient, have strong low end, and be easy to drive. A sacrifice has to be made at some point, so impedance becomes an issue with Klipsch.

Klipsch is probably the easiest speaker on the planet to drive. Virtually any receiver can handle these without an issue. I really don't know about the impedance dip issue (mainly because it probably isn't significant), but when you need roughly 20 watts to rock with them, any issues with an amp going into protection or suffering from high distortion levels won't happen with any regularity. In fact, with higher efficiency, distortion is reduced because the amp is doing so little work in comparison to other speakers.

Klipsch are also notoriously bright, because of the horn loading design. Also when an amplifier starts soft clipping they will brighten up. Weak transistor amps, or more appropriate, amplifiers that aren't stable with difficult loads choke when Klipsch doesn't get what it wants.

This is a theory clouded in mythology. Klipsch is not as bright as popular wives' tales would have you believe.

So why tube amps? Most tube amps are stable, within their respective ratings, with low impedance loads. Klipsch's efficient, bright, but load bearing speakers coupled with Tube amp's warm colour and drive any load capability you get positive results.

And you also effectively negate the reason why you bought a Klipsch to begin with.

 

[pikers]

For the record I also really like the Klipsch RF-83s, best sounding Klipsch I have ever heard, but powered incorrectly (this coming from the basis that amps should not color sound), and they won't sound their best.

We can't jump to conclusions about everything here.

Like the erroneous conclusion that upstream electronics have no effect on sound. You need to correct this fallacy prior to assuming anything about the devices that reproduce the electronics' tonal signature.