Frustrated with my setup

[GoFastr]

So I pretty much taxed my system the highest it has ever had to perform yesterday for our annual After New Years party.

From about 3pm when I started preparing things outside for our 6pm start I had the iPod plugged in with music playing on zone 2 for the 2 outdoor speakers at about a -20db volume. I also had the TV and the 5.1 stuff on for zone 1 inside for the football games at a lower volume of about -25db.

Sometime during the night I guess about 10pm the zone 2 volume was cranked up to about -5db and I also set zone 1 to the same iPod source for music and set the volume at about -15db.

At 2:15am my Denon AVR-3311 shutdown like it had overheated. I had been switching the music sources between internet radio and my PC media server and had also probably turned up the volume even more for the last hour or so.

Each time I tried turning the AVR back on, as soon as I switched zone 2 on it would shut down the entire AVR again. Just the red ring around the power button would be blinking.

The AVR is not in an enclosed rack so it has plenty of ventilation. Also whenever I would set the iPod to a particular playlist it would just start with the first artist alphabetically under All Music no mater what playlist you had selected before plugging it into the AVR. I'm not sure what I was doing wrong there but needless to say the party stopped when the music stopped and everyone trickled out.

Other people had brought their iPod's too and each one when plugged in would not play the playlist it would just start with the first artist alphabetically under All Music no mater what playlist you had selected before plugging it into the AVR. That was really frustraing because they usually had the latest greatest songs and that's what they wanted to dance to.

Sp needless to say, I am frustrated with my Denon AVR.....or maybe just too lazy to read up the manual.

 

[ImcLoud]

After it cooled down, is there any change in behavior? I hate AVR's for this reason, they are OK for running at low power for long periods of time or high power for short but when you really put the volume knob up and try to play them for extended times, they show there weak links....

Best bet is get a decent amplifier to handle the load, wire it into you avrs preouts {after you get it figured out}, even if it is just for the front 2 that will take the burdon off of the avr, this works well, I can play my xpa2 for days at high levels with no heat no smells and no issues whatsoever, if I ever did that to the yamaha avr {that was originally $2000} it would be smoking hot after 4-5 hours and shutting down shortly after... Do the math a 30lb avr that has all the circuitry for the video display ect in it vs. a 90lb amplifier that is just that, the duty cycle is going to be much easier to work with on the designated amplifier vs the avr, now i know someone will chime in and say, I run my avr full volume at 2 ohms for 40 hours non stop and live just past the gates of heLL where the ambient temperature is never under 350*f and it never so much as blinks, lol, but this is not what I find, and you have one heck of an avr, that denon is no joke, should be able to put up with some punishment....

 

[GoFastr]

Yeah I need to get my XPA-5 wired in, but it's so big it doesn't fit in my current rack setup.
The AVR worked fine for zone 1 even after it shut down last night and all day for todays games and zone2 when I was outside cleaning up. I wasn't pushing it volume wise today so maybe that's all it's good for is regular duty stuff.

 

[fuzz092888]

Yeah I need to get my XPA-5 wired in, but it's so big it doesn't fit in my current rack setup.
The AVR worked fine for zone 1 even after it shut down last night and all day for todays games and zone2 when I was outside cleaning up. I wasn't pushing it volume wise today so maybe that's all it's good for is regular duty stuff.

Sounds like it just went into protection mode. Even so, you may want to contact Denon and ask since the Klipsch speakers shouldn't require a lot of power, even at those levels. I know my Onkyo and previously my marantz never did that even when I was watching a couple movies in a row at high volumes, but I had a fan on top of the Onk, and I wouldn't expect the Marantz to do that anyways. Worth a call to Denon just to double check IMHO.

 

[ImcLoud]

I run an xpa5 for my HT {soon to be an xpa2 w an xpa3 instead of the 5, but haven't even taken them out of the boxes yet} and for zone 2 I use a upa200... And I can run my theater all day and night no problems {although I have yet to do more than a couple loud movies in a row}, and for the zone 2 I never run it real loud but its running 12 speakers through a selector box..

 

[slipperybidness]

The 3311 is a fairly robust receiver (as far as receivers go). But it does sound like it just ran out of gas.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also had the TV and the 5.1...

Sometime during the night I guess about 10pm the zone 2 volume was cranked up to about -5db and I also set zone 1 to the same iPod source for music and set the volume at about -15db.

1) the RF-7 has a sensitivity of 101dB/2.3V/m. If you run Audyssey, that means the speaker channel levels will be set to like -10.0dB. As an experiment, try increasing the speaker channel levels to +0.0dB or higher.

2) 5.1 will use more power than 2.1. For louder party volume, try using just 2.1 stereo, not 5.1.

3) I've never had this music playlist issue with my iPad & AirPlay. Maybe that's what you need --- AirPlay.

 

[Rickster71]

Did you put your hand on top to feel how hot it was?
At 27lbs. it doesn't sound like it has the heatsinking to play that loud for that many hours.

 

[markw]

You done rode her hard and put her away wet.

Not a good thing to do. Be glad it recovered.

Dunno about the Ipod issue but as for it shutting down, well, if I read correctly you were pushing all seven channels pretty hard for an extended period of time in a music mode.

Remember, HT mode doesn't require full power from all channels simultaneously. When you force it to do so, say with some DSP enhanced music mode, it does. That puts more strain on the receiver's power supply than it was made to withstand

Sounds like a job for commecial sound gear, not stuff designed for home AV use.

 

[Rickster71]

Agree with Mark.
I'd like to add a bit about heat related problems.

A tip off is that it played OK for many hours, then it became what's know as 'convection limited'
Meaning, the heatsinks can no longer dissipate heat.
If you plan on using it for all channel driven use again, I'd get a fan or two.

 

[GoFastr]

Thanks for the responses guys. I didn't feel how hot the top was as I've had several parties before and it never shut down. I think that I might not have had my rear surrounds installed and it was not in 5.1 mode then.

You're right, next time for music only I'll put in pure direct mode for inside too when pushing zone 2 for outside.

The DJ usually brings his set but after seeing my equipment he said it would do ok and just brought his iPod Touch.
I don't have an iPhone or iPad so never really bothered to install Airplay.

The wife has an old iPod hanging around here so I might be able to play with that and see what I can get working with Airplay.

I've always wanted a nice system for outside that I could push pretty high (closest neighbors are 1/4 mile away) but figuring out what type of outdoor storage cabinet to house all the gear in would be a pain since I don't want to be bothered with setting things up and taking them down all the time. I can get outdoor speakers but the projector and amp/receiver would have to be housed in something weatherproof outside.

 

[lsiberian]

Sound like it's time to get a pro amp and some JTRs for outside.

Yamaha P Series amps plus a pair of Triple 12s will be just right.

 

[GoFastr]

Sorry, big mistake in volume levels that I posted. They were not -db's they were on the positive side and I may have been around 0 for a couple of songs but not for extended times. I can't read the volume levels unless the TV is on or get down on my hands and knees to read the front panel of the AVR.

 

[lsiberian]

Sorry, big mistake in volume levels that I posted. They were not -db's they were on the positive side and I may have been around 0 for a couple of songs but not for extended times. I can't read the volume levels unless the TV is on or get down on my hands and knees to read the front panel of the AVR.

Those don't tell us much because it's the gain control not the actual volume level. If you really want to party outside you gotta go pro. You probably were close to blowing your speakers with that level of volume.

 

[GoFastr]

What the hell am I saying anyways?!
I think I'm still feeling the effects of the party! Having read through some of the responses of how loud it was playing, I felt that maybe I had posted them wrong originally but now that I think about it I've never played my setup louder than +5db. It reads around -20db normally and then gets louder as the numbers go lower down to 0 and then starts going up again to +5db. Geez, I'm wacko this morning!

Thanks for that reality moment!

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I originally had a Denon 5803 for the downstairs using zone 2 for the outdoors, powering a pair of JBL Control 28's (8" woofer, 1" horn loaded tweeter) which are 92dB/w efficient and 8-ohms nominal. I had one per channel and used them for just some background music (like eating outside, not partying). If I'd leave them on, with the inside on plaything music, the Denon would go into protection if the levels were moderate. I checked cable gauge, finally ended up just getting a two channel Crown and using that instead, no issues since.

Oh, and my rack downstairs for the distributed audio has a dedicated AC duct, and a middle atlantic rack with a return air on top using the chimney effect. Lol, so, average temp inside the rack (I have the temp gauge unit from MA) is between 72 and 74 degrees even with the door shut.

It could be a poor design by Denon, or maybe I'm just expecting to much. I don't have another receiver to compare it to because my home theater uses a pre-processor and dedicated amplifiers for each channel.

I never tried running stereo on the inside, because main use of that downstairs receiver is 2 channel stereo across the left and right for nice even sound, and it does that well.

But, i'm with lsiberian. Get some pro sound amps and JTRs for parties. When I used to DJ I used my JTRs for both DJing and home theater lol. So, actually was a really good value. Just get the Pro ones (or at least the pro enclosure) so you have handles. Mine are T8s and are really easy to move. Actually my center channel is a stage monitor configuration. Sounds the same, just easier to move (oh and you get nice Nuetrix speakon connectors which you'll end up wondering why you didn't always have those)

 

[avnetguy]

Sorry, big mistake in volume levels that I posted. They were not -db's they were on the positive side and I may have been around 0 for a couple of songs but not for extended times. I can't read the volume levels unless the TV is on or get down on my hands and knees to read the front panel of the AVR.

That's some loud tunes! Does the ipod app interface show the volume, might be easier than crawling. Of course crawling might work better after a few too many drinks but you're likely not concerned with the volume at that time.

Steve

 

[GoFastr]

I don't have anything with an iPad, iPhone app interface.
In my case, once I plug in the AVR USB cable into the iPod I have no control over the iPod as it doesn't respond to any buttons again. It just starts playing songs alphabetically by artist.

Yeah, once the liquor hits home everyone wants you to turn the music up as if they are in some purpose built sound enriched environment similar to a club. Getting music to sound good outdoors is very hard to do. Outdoor concerts don't necessarliy sound very good, they're just loud. I've only been to one, maybe two, that I was amazed at the setup and wondered how much time had been spent getting it to sound that good.....and that was before the alcohol got started!

 

[lsiberian]

I don't have anything with an iPad, iPhone app interface.
In my case, once I plug in the AVR USB cable into the iPod I have no control over the iPod as it doesn't respond to any buttons again. It just starts playing songs alphabetically by artist.

Yeah, once the liquor hits home everyone wants you to turn the music up as if they are in some purpose built sound enriched environment similar to a club. Getting music to sound good outdoors is very hard to do. Outdoor concerts don't necessarliy sound very good, they're just loud. I've only been to one, maybe two, that I was amazed at the setup and wondered how much time had been spent getting it to sound that good.....and that was before the alcohol got started!

JTRs are excellent outdoors and have the sound level to get it loud with quality. You want to get the Yamaha P Series amps to drive them. It's not cheap though. If you don't care about quality MTX speakers are loud.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For outdoors, I would just get some JBL Pro speakers. I don't think extreme music clarity is the primary objective with outdoor music.