Entry-level speakers -- so many great options!!

[skipsterut]

I am still trying to make a final decision about speakers for my new HT system.

I have gotten a lot of great input from forum members about BIC Acoustech and BIC America (Venturi) speakers – and those two systems are still at the top of my list – but I have also been considering other systems where I can get a comparable price – and where I have either read good things in this forum and/or others, or have seen good reviews, etc. I know there is no substitute for hearing speakers in person, but for the BIC’s that’s not possible since they are not sold in retail stores. And I’m not sure of the value of hearing speakers in a showroom that has no relationship whatsoever to my own room. I’m pretty committed to getting them online based on reviews, reputation, recommendations and the best apparent value

My budget is between $500 and $650 for 2 fronts, a center and 2 surrounds. I am pretty well settled on having floor standing mains instead of bookshelves mounted on stands – primarily for aesthetic/WAF reasons. But I am considering one option that doesn’t include floor standing mains – see Option 3 below.

I recently bought a Pioneer VSX-74TXVi receiver (which is really fantastic) and a JBL S120PII subwoofer (12” front firing, long throw, 400 watts RMS) -- which I also think is great. [BTW – my $0.02 – I have seen other comments about this sub that are pretty negative – and being a newbie, maybe I don’t know the difference – but it performs really well for me in my room, and I’m very happy with it so far. Shakes the windows, rattles the walls and punches me in the chest while delivering good crisp bass with deep extension (to my ears anyway) with the gain set to just over 60%.]

My room is pretty large (3,500 cubic ft) and acoustically soft (lots of carpeting, drapes, soft furniture, etc.), but even now I have no problem filling it with a marginal 2.1 system consisting of 2 old Fisher XP-7B floor standing 10" 3-way speakers and the new the JBL sub. Running the Pioneer 74 at -8 dB with just this simple setup is too loud for continuous play – I use that level for major action viewing like the Omaha Beach scene in Saving Private Ryan or the first major battle scene in Master & Commander. But for regular action, dialog, etc. I dial it back to about -15dB and that provides plenty of sound even without a good set of speakers. My listening is about 80/20 TV & DVD to music.

I am pretty well up to speed on the various differences between the two BIC lines, so don’t really need much more input about them. But I would like to get opinions about how the BIC lines compare to some others – in particular Infinity Beta, Infinity Primus, Polk Audio Monitor and the Polk Audio R Series. In most cases to keep the cost down I have listed a pair of small bookshelfs as “surrounds.” I realize that they are not designed as true surround speakers, but I’m willing to sacrifice here to get a better front sound stage – and then upgrade the surrounds later if the bookshelfs are inadequate.

Note: All costs shown do not include shipping.

Option 1 BIC Acoustech Cost = $600
----------------------------------------------------------------------
HT-75 L/R Mains
HT-65 Center
HT-63 Surrounds


Option 2 BIC America w/floor mains Cost = $455
---------------------------------------------------------------
DV-64 L/R Mains
DV-62CLR Center
DV-62Si Surrounds


Option 2A BIC America w/Frias “extensive mods” Cost = $810
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Same as Option 2 but with Ed Frias’ “extensive mods”
For this option I would buy the speakers directly from Ed
with not only his X-over mods, but the speakers would
be acoustically matched by Ed, have higher quality
components in the X-over, etc.
$810 is more than my budget, so I would probably substitute DV-52Si’s w/o the
mods for the surrounds. This brings the cost down to $645


Option 3 BIC America w/o floors and w/Frias mods Cost = $595
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
DV-62CLR -- 3 for the entire front soundstage L/R/Center – highly recommended by Ed Frias
DV-62Si Surrounds
Buy the 3 DV-62CLR’s from Ed Frias w/”extensive mods”
Buy the DV-62Si’s w/o mods
Using 3 DV-62CLR’s for the front soundstage seems like a great idea, but
I’m not sure how I would mount the DV-62 CLR’s on stands and how they would look.
Any ideas/input on how to mount center speakers like the 62CLR’s vertically on stands
without being top heavy and looking weird would be welcomed.


Option 4 Infinity Beta Cost = $810
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beta 40 L/R Mains
Beta C250 Center
Beta 10 Surrounds
This is more than my budget, so maybe I would probably substitute BIC DV-52Si’s for the Beta
surrounds. This brings the cost down to $655 – the top end of my budget.


Option 5 Infinity Primus Cost = $500
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Primus 360 L/R Mains
Primus C25 Center
Primus 150 Surrounds
Vann’s has these at a fantastic pre-order price – but I’m not sure when I would get them.
Also – I assume they are not as good as the Beta’s – but the price seems great.


Option 6 Polk Audio Monitor Cost = $725
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monitor 60 L/R Mains
CS1 Center
Monitor 30 Surrounds
This is more than my budget, but I can get the Monitor 60’s for just $450
a pair and it seems too good to pass up.

BTW -- Does it make sense to substitute the BIC DV-62CLR for the center with non-BIC mains?
I know it’s a different manufacturer, but since the BIC 62CLR is so highly rated it seems a shame to get any other center that costs more and isn’t as good.

Option 7 Polk Audio R50 Mains Cost = $675
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
R50 L/R Mains
--- These are in an auction that ends in a few hours so may not be able to get this price again
CS1 Center
R15 Surrounds


Option 8 Polk Audio R30 Mains Cost = $450
--------------------------------------------------------------------
R30 L/R Mains
CS1 Center
R15 Surrounds
Could spend some extra and get the CS2 center for total cost = $510

I have not listed Klipsch as an option because I have seen many posts here and elsewhere saying that the BIC Acoustech’s are just as good (or almost as good, anyway) for a lot less $$. I’m sure there is disagreement with this, but a reasonable level of quality speakers from Klipsch would be well outside my budget, anyway.

Sorry for the long post, but you guys are the best and I know you’ll give me some great feedback.

Thanks in advance…….

 

[jaxvon]

I'm personally a fan of BIC (I have them, duh). All of your BIC options seem like good ideas, with the exception of one thing. The DV-52si is NOT in the same league as the DV-62, DV-64, and DV-84. It uses and inferior tweeter and does not have the great sound that I have found in the DV-62s. If anything, pick up a pair of unmodified DV-62 speakers.

While I can't compare too many things, I did a very unscientific A/B test between some polk Monitor 30s and my DV62si bookshelves and found the BICs to be better in every regard, especially bass extension. Now granted, the BICs are somewhat bright (and I've grown somewhat acustomed to this during my ownership of them), but they still sound excellent, especially for the money. I personally prefer them to some very expensive B&W bookshelves I auditioned.

But I digress. The BIC options will all serve you very well. If you see yourself listening to a lot of music in addition to the movies, then I think the Venturi line would suit you better. The Venturis can play plenty loud without distortion if you send them enough power. You have a very nice receiver, so it will be a non-issue.

As far as stand-mounting goes, I don't think there should be a problem with it. The only thing that would look odd would be the sideways BIC logo. There shouldn't be an issue of the speakers and stands tipping over unless you have small children/pets/other people in the house that run into things on a regular basis.

 

[johsti]

I'm sure any of the setups you've selected will sound great.

Personally, I would do option 2 and listen to them for awhile. If you think you're missing something, then send the crossovers to Ed for modification. I think the DV64's match very well with the DV62CLRS. Plus you won't need stands for the 64's, and no sideways logos. I'm running that exact setup with an SVS PB10 and I'm very happy with it.

 

[Sheep]

That is quite a detailed post, and I for one applaud your effort to do as much work on your end BEFORE you turn to the forum.

I have never heard BIC's so I can't comment on them or compare them. A couple other systems you can consider are from Athena, and if you wouldn't mind small sats, the Velodyne Deco system. I saw it for 699 in Canada, and it comes with a heafty subwoofer, that you could add to your system as a rear sub or whatnot.

From Athena a system consisting of B1's, C1, and R1's could work. I have hear the athena's quite a bit and I realy like the sound. They're close with my Energy C-1's.

More people will chime in with there suggestions so be patient

SheepStar

 

[johsti]

I'm not sure where you're located, but if you have a Fry's electronics nearby, you could just about cut your price in half for option 8. That would definitely be the best bang for the buck.

 

[adamsap]

I'm investigating speakers myself in similar price range and I'm intrigued by your option of using DV62CLR as main speakers. I don't have space for floor standing front speakers and I thought I will be stuck with smaller bookshelf speakers. I would have however space to put a pair of DV62CLR vertically.

Do you know if DV62CLR can stand vertically without any stand?

 

[johsti]

You will want some type of stand for the DV62CLR. You want the tweeter at ear level.

 

[skipsterut]

BIC - Infinity - Polk Audio -- comparison/opinions?

Thanks for the feedback so far.

There are some specific things I have been wondering about. Can anyone tell me how the various lines of speakers in my options compare in general?

Infinity Beta 40 and Infinity Primus 360
Same manufacturer -- approx same price range -- but what is the diff? Just based on "reading between the lines" in various posts on this forum and others my "impression" is that the Beta 40 is more highly regarded than the Primus 360 -- but that's just a general impression I have picked up and may be wrong. Does anyone have anything concrete to say about these two Infinity lines?

Likewise with Polk Audio's Monitor 60 and the R50 -- similar price points (list price of about $650/pr -- with street prices prices of about $450/pr) but what's the performance diff -- if any? The Polk web site says the R series is for startup systems and small-medium rooms. No mention of those factors is made in the description of the Monitor line. Also -- the Monitors have dual binding posts, so they can be bi-amped. Whether or not you think bi-amping is any good (another debate), it is true that "bi-ampable dual binding posts are a feature of much higher-end speakers in general. So for both these reasons my inclination is to think the Monitor 60 has more value than the R50 at the same price point. Does anyone know for sure -- or at least have a better basis for an opinion about the comparison between these two Polk lines?

And even more to the point -- how do the Infinity (Beta and Primus) and Polk Audio (Monitor and R) speakers compare to BIC Acoustech and/or Venturis?

As much as I like everything I hear about the BIC lines, there is something to be said for the solid historical performamnce and high level of customer satisfaction associated the "name brands" such as Infinity and Polk -- especially Polk.

 

[johsti]

As much as I like everything I hear about the BIC lines, there is something to be said for the solid historical performamnce and high level of customer satisfaction associated the "name brands" such as Infinity and Polk -- especially Polk.
Reply With Quote

Actually, BIC has been around for quite some time (At least 30 years). Search around, some people on these forums purchased their first BIC's in the 70's and still use them. BIC also has a 7 year warranty. Show me another speaker with a 7 year warranty (I'm sure there are some, but it's uncommon).

edit:http://www.bicamerica.com/bic_history.htm

 

[Sheep]

Actually, BIC has been around for quite some time (At least 30 years). Search around, some people on these forums purchased their first BIC's in the 70's and still use them. BIC also has a 7 year warranty. Show me another speaker with a 7 year warranty (I'm sure there are some, but it's uncommon).

edit:http://www.bicamerica.com/bic_history.htm

My athena sub has a 9 year....

SheepStar

 

[johsti]

My athena sub has a 9 year....

You mean Athena Gives an extra 8 years for fellow Canadians?

Man, we're getting screwed

 

[mulester7]

You will want some type of stand for the DV62CLR. You want the tweeter at ear level.

.....fine for the rears, Johsti, but you want the fronts at chamber levels.....with 8 foot ceilings, I've found the tweeter right at 5 feet works Grande....uh, real good....got that amp on my mind.....git the TV up with them fronts....off the floor and they clean up, with no suffering, because of, and thank you, Mr. Sub....imaging doesn't really happen right, with the speaker on the floor, and I believe it's the muddy bottom....let's think seperates with the speakers also....and guys, this arrangement of the floor-standing main sitting on a sub, has worked out right nice, with a 1/4 folded large bath towel between them...."NOOO, MY MAINS WILL NOT LEAVE THE FLOOR!!"....hey, it's your theater and your sound quality....experiment with different ohmage voices....test on Friday.......

 

[skipsterut]

I'm not sure where you're located, but if you have a Fry's electronics nearby, you could just about cut your price in half for option 8. That would definitely be the best bang for the buck.

I'm located in Salt Lake City, and I don't think there are any Fry's in the area. Closest is Las Vegas. Hmmm -- sounds like a good excuse for a pilgrimage to sin city , but I can't afford the time for at least few months.

BUT I'm wondering -- is there anybody in the Utah area who has ANY of the speakers listed in my options (especially the BIC's - either model) who would be willing to let me hear (and see) the speakers?

I'd be glad to offer the same opportunity to anyone who wants hear/see the Pioneer VSX-72/74 receiver line or the JBL S120PII sub. And -- after I get my speakers -- whatever they are -- I'd also be glad to show them off to anyone who asks.

 

[johsti]

No problem, Fry's has a website

http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3241451?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3292811?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

You can find the center on ebay, or Fry's sometimes has the csi25 on sale for less than $100

_________________

 

[mike c]

Infinity Beta 40 and Infinity Primus 360
Same manufacturer -- approx same price range -- but what is the diff? Just based on "reading between the lines" in various posts on this forum and others my "impression" is that the Beta 40 is more highly regarded than the Primus 360 -- but that's just a general impression I have picked up and may be wrong. Does anyone have anything concrete to say about these two Infinity lines?

the beta has this "warmer"/"fuller" sound. (something you wouldnt notice unless you listened to them in succession)

the beta also looks better (audiophile look) vs. the primus (floorstanding pc speakers look - but still nice)

btw, i have the beta 50, c360, and 2 pairs of 10s

 

[Sheep]

You mean Athena Gives an extra 8 years for fellow Canadians?

Man, we're getting screwed

No, its an extended plan. I didn't buy it, it came with and its transferable. It makes for a great selling feature, which is one of the reasons I bought it.

SheepStar

 

[mike c]

btw, if you're on a tight budget, and still want nice looks and nice big drivers
this one is ultra cheap (compared to your choices) especially if you are gonna use them for HT a big% of the time

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/speakers/speakers_NSsystems.htm

 

[einsteinjb]

Hey there,

Lemme throw another option or two atcha. I know you're really leaning towards floorstanding mains, but remember that floorstanders will always cost considerably more for similar quality than a comparable bookshelf. Since you're using a decent sub anyway, I recommend you consider looking at better bookshelf speakers rather than lesser towers (can't you bring the wife some flowers when you discuss it? ).

Along those lines, let me STRONGLY recommend a 5.0 set of SVS's new SBS-01 speakers here:

http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm

They'll be shipping in about 2 weeks and for $549 (pre-order pricing, before shipping), they're within your budget and I'll eat my hat if they don't sound infinitely better than most, and at least as good as, your other options. (I haven't heard most of them though I'm familiar with the BIC DV62CLR-S, more on that in a moment). SVS is insane about building incredible quality products for stupidly low prices and you can't beat their amazing customer service. I've been emailing back & forth with Ron S. (one of the owners) and I've already pre-ordered a pair. He's pretty proud of these boxes. Plus if you don't like them (I can't imagine but crazy things do happen), you have a 45 day money back guarantee so all it'll cost you to try them is shipping! You get to try them in your own home for next to nothing, and with some nice looking stands (combined with awesome sound), surely you can charm the wife!

As for the BICs, if you're set on them I would suggest you pick up a set (of your choice, but not the 52s) cheaply from say, Amazon, then get Ed to mod your xovers. While you won't get the benefits of his extensively modded ones and you have to do a little work yanking the xovers, shipping them and re-installing them, you'll still get really good sounding speakers for well within your budget. I believe the SVS bookshelfs will play louder and sound better than the BICs, but it's still a good choice.

I have a pair of DV62CLR-S that I bought stock and had Ed do my xovers. I've been using them as studio monitors believe it or not (I'm a sound engineer, both live and studio, and I have a very small mixing room where I mix 24-track live recordings of bands) and I've found them to be surprisingly accurate and very easy to mix on (crossed over at 80 or 90 Hz to a sub, which I've recently upgraded to a Hsu VTF-2 Mk 2). I have found that when pushed to serious volumes they get a bit compressed and "hard" sounding, but I rarely feel the need to play them that loud in my smaller rooms. On short stands, crossed over to a decent sub in a small to medium-sized room, I think you'd be very happy with them (WITH Ed's mods!! Out of the box I found them unusable).

For build quality, quite frankly they're pretty crappy. They look fine on the outside and I'm not saying they'll fall apart or anything, and they're heavy enough and feel pretty solid, but when you take them apart to ship Ed the xovers you'll see that inside they look like a grade school kid's science project -- not much in the way of bracing, extra glue globs, etc. Plus on mine I found the drivers were kinda slapped together; one box's drivers looked pretty good but the other one's edging around the foam was a bit off so it didn't quite match perfectly with the screw holes. Not a disaster but indicative of cheap manufacturing. After seeing their lame build quality I was SHOCKED at the great sound they produced after Ed worked his magic on them.

OH and the DV62CLR-S with Ed Frias mods does make an excellent center channel speaker by the way. Whenever I want to watch a movie in my lil HT, I drag one of my 62s down from the studio and it matches beautifully with my B&W DM602 S2 mains. It's not as polished and "pretty" sounding as they are, but I really like the clarity for dialogue. Vocals sound really excellent on the BICs, very natural. I'm pre-ordering a pair of Ascend Acoustics' new CBM-170SEs in January, so after xmas I'll be doing some serious speaker juggling and making a LOT of noise comparing the B&Ws to the Ascends to the SVSs. Regardless of where each pair ends up, I still plan to keep one of the BICs as a center (I'm tired of dragging it upstairs, hehe) at least until I have more $$ to upgrade it.

Oh and I meant to suggest, why not check out Axiom's lower priced offerings while you're at it? I haven't heard any myself but the reviews are mostly excellent and they have some nice looking inexpensive choices.

Whatever you decide, let us know how it works out please.

 

[einsteinjb]

.....fine for the rears, Johsti, but you want the fronts at chamber levels.....with 8 foot ceilings, I've found the tweeter right at 5 feet works Grande....uh, real good....got that amp on my mind.....git the TV up with them fronts....off the floor and they clean up, with no suffering, because of, and thank you, Mr. Sub....imaging doesn't really happen right, with the speaker on the floor, and I believe it's the muddy bottom....let's think seperates with the speakers also....and guys, this arrangement of the floor-standing main sitting on a sub, has worked out right nice, with a 1/4 folded large bath towel between them...."NOOO, MY MAINS WILL NOT LEAVE THE FLOOR!!"....hey, it's your theater and your sound quality....experiment with different ohmage voices....test on Friday.......

Mule... You're almost definitely insane. I love it.

 

[ezkcdude]

Hey, guys. New member to the forum. I put together a Paradigm system about 7 years ago, and never looked back. I would highly recommend Paradigm for a good value.

That being said, if had to do it over again now, I would probably look at Aperion. They seem to have really well-constructed speakers using HDF, which is very rare. Good luck!

p.s. I also have a pair of NHT SuperOnes, which are being used for my computer, so they are not so easy to evaluate, but I got them on the basis of many recommendations over the years.