emotiva xpa-2 vs xpa-5

[Scott Andrew]

I need some suggestions. I currently have a Pioneer VSX-1014 with B&W DM604 fronts, B&W DM 602 rears and a B&W LCR 600 center. So I want to upgrade my amplifier so I am trying to decide between the XPA-2 and the XPA-5... my goal is that I simply want it louder. So do you think it would be better to go with the XPA-2 for only my towers or the XPA-5 for all of the speakers? (fyi, I also have a Dr Hsu VTF-2 to take care of the lower frequencies)

 

[Nestor]

I need some suggestions. I currently have a Pioneer VSX-1014 with B&W DM604 fronts, B&W DM 602 rears and a B&W LCR 600 center. So I want to upgrade my amplifier so I am trying to decide between the XPA-2 and the XPA-5... my goal is that I simply want it louder. So do you think it would be better to go with the XPA-2 for only my towers or the XPA-5 for all of the speakers? (fyi, I also have a Dr Hsu VTF-2 to take care of the lower frequencies)

Doubling your power will give you about a 3 dB increase in vol.
You're not going to gain much from each speaker. What you will do is take some of the load off of the receiver, if you are having overheating issues.

If you must upgrade, go with an XPA 3 to cover the center, or the 5 to cover all channels.


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[PENG]

I typically recommed the XPA-2 or the 3 but not the 5, purely base on power output, not sound quality. The 2 will be best for 2 channel music and the 3 may do a little better with the center for movies that could benefit from a few dB of extra headroom that the Pio cannot provide. It it was my money I would spend it on the 2.

 

[Alex2507]

... or go to the xpa-2 to get as much wattage as possible to the mains because that's where the music comes from.

the 2 is more watts than the 3 or 5, right?

EDIT: I started typing this before PENG posted ... so I'm not parroting what he just said there.

 

[j_garcia]

XPA-3 for the fronts. I can't really see those speakers needing a ton of power, certainly not the 602s, so let the AVR drive them. When you upgrade speakers, you'll still have most upgrades covered with that amp.

Though the Pioneer 101x AVRs seem popular, I tested an older model and found the power to be lacking on it. I'd probably upgrade the AVR rather than adding an amp, but you still won't go wrong buying an XPA-3.

 

[Scott Andrew]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your speaker has a max power handling of 200W into 8 ohms. I would not exceed this.

Contrary to hearsay, having too much power can damage your speakers.

 

[RichB]

Your speaker has a max power handling of 200W into 8 ohms. I would not exceed this.

Contrary to hearsay, having too much power can damage your speakers.

Music should not resemble a RMS test signal.
Unfortunately, the recording industry is compressing recordings in what seems to be an attempt to do so.

That does not say that a speaker may not perform well on music peaks and that an amp that can handle such peaks should be avoided.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Music should not resemble a RMS test signal.
Unfortunately, the recording industry is compressing recordings in what seems to be an attempt to do so.

That does not say that a speaker may not perform well on music peaks and that an amp that can handle such peaks should be avoided.

- Rich

And you are ASSUMING the ACTUAL music peak requires above 200W into 8 ohms?

If a speaker engineer who designs the speaker recommends that the amp be between 30W-200W, I am going to take heed, but that's just me.

Just like when Siegfried Linkwitz tells me that he does not recommend more than 100WPC amps for my Orion 3.2.1, I listen to him.

Or maybe I listen to him because he also thinks that all amps sound the same.

 

[RichB]

And you are ASSUMING the ACTUAL music peak requires above 200W into 8 ohms?

If a speaker engineer who designs the speaker recommends that the amp be between 30W-200W, I am going to take heed, but that's just me.

Just like when Siegfried Linkwitz tells me that he does not recommend more than 100WPC amps for my Orion 3.2.1, I listen to him.

Or maybe I listen to him because he also thinks that all amps sound the same.

Who is saying that if you don't need the power buy it? Not me

Here is the specification I found for the B&W DM604:

Power handling: 200W continuous into 8 O on unclipped programme

I wonder what those speakers prefer, a clipped programme or 200 WPC.​

Crankers wanna crank. So if you are a cranker, I think you a better off with some headroom.
If not, then life is less complicated.

Of course, all Siegfried's should be listened to

- Rich​

 

[j_garcia]

Headroom is never a bad thing, and like I said, in the event of a future upgrade, 200W will handle most things you're going to throw its way.

 

[Scott Andrew]

I have decided on the XPA-5... now to get it in Canada

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Who is saying that if you don't need the power buy it? Not me

Here is the specification I found for the B&W DM604:

I wonder what those speakers prefer, a clipped programme or 200 WPC.​

Crankers wanna crank. So if you are a cranker, I think you a better off with some headroom.
If not, then life is less complicated.

Of course, all Siegfried's should be listened to

- Rich​

They prefer unclipped period.

But I'll play long. I wonder what those speakers prefer?

A clipped 200W or a clipped 400W?

There is NO GUARANTEE that the 400W won't clip.

And there are much worse things than listening to Linkwitz regarding speakers and amps.

 

[RichB]

They prefer unclipped period.

But I'll play long. I wonder what those speakers prefer?

A clipped 200W or a clipped 400W?

There is NO GUARANTEE that the 400W won't clip.

And there are much worse things than listening to Linkwitz regarding speakers and amps.

I have seen quite a few impedance measurements of B&W speakers and they can have some interesting phase angles.

Correct me if I am wrong, at 45 degrees you have a power factor of 2 and 50 % of the power is dissipated by the transistors.
To drive such a speaker, 400 watts could be required (at some frequencies) to deliver 200 watts unclipped to the speaker.
In doing so, you would remain within the specification of 200 watts unclipped.
You never know, lawyers could be involved in that specification and the British know their language

I suspect Linkwitz would like to know the impedance curve before picking an amp, which, of course, he does for his own designs

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Correct me if I am wrong, at 45 degrees you have a power factor of 2 and 50 % of the power is dissipated by the transistors.

That is not correct. Power factor = Cosine of the angle between V and I, and cosine 45 degree is 0.707. In terms of the split between the power dissipation in the amp and in the speaker it is a different story.

To drive such a speaker, 400 watts could be required (at some frequencies) to deliver 200 watts unclipped to the speaker.
In doing so, you would remain within the specification of 200 watts unclipped.
You never know, lawyers could be involved in that specification and the British know their language

I suspect Linkwitz would like to know the impedance curve before picking an amp, which, of course, he does for his own designs

- Rich

It isn't quite like that, you may want to read Phase Angle Vs. Transistor Dissipation

and Understanding Impedance Curves & Phase Angles | Audioholics

Note that Steve did reference to the article in the first link but I guess he tried to simplify things. When you start getting into that kind of details, I am sorry to say it but you do need to have a solid background in EE and in the related field of EE as EE is a very broad field.

 

[PENG]

I have decided on the XPA-5... now to get it in Canada

Someone said it before, most people who come and ask whether they need an amp of which amp, they end up getting what they want in the first place regardless of feedbacks. Anyway, congratulations and welcome to the club. I would like you to think this through one more time though. If your goal is just louder movies, the XPA-5 is fine. If you also want to get the best within your budget for 2 channel music listening, then I really would ask you to reconsider the XPA-2.

Those amps are not of the more expensive monoblock design so they typically have multi winding transformers. The power supply of the XPA-2 and 5 are both base on 1200 VA transformers. That means the XPA-2 would have 600 VA for each channel while the XPA-5 would have only 240 VA per channel, that is less than half. The XPA-2 also has 22,500 microfarads of capacitance, vs the XPA-5's 12,000. So in reality I bet the XPA-2 would give you a full 3 dB more headroom for your potential needs should you upgrade to the higher end B&W speakers that could be more power hungry. For the surround channels, I just do not believe the XPA-5 will get you audible improvements over your AVR as it really isn't very powerful, not enough to make a difference. That's just me 2 cents, either way you will be happy just knowing you have the extra reserve, whether you need it or not.

 

[Nestor]

I have decided on the XPA-5... now to get it in Canada

If you can hold out, wait until next fall. They usually have their sale. Plus, the looney has slid significantly recently and hopefully it will recover somewhat by then.

Shipping will be a killer though, because of the weight.


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[ImcLoud]

I think I heard that emo is no longer going to do sales? This holiday sale was the last one, if I remember correctly...
The outlaw 2200's get more and more attractive the higher emos prices get, I love my pair of 2200's they sound awesome...

 

[sgtjim]

I purchased the XPA-5 to drive mine (603s3) mild change in sonics and then upgraded to the N804's for mains. That is where I really noticed a huge difference. Wish I could afford to upgrade more...

 

[herbu]

I have decided on the XPA-5...

Ha ha ha.
I did the same thing. Asked for advice here, got the same advice you did, then got the XPA-5 anyway.
This is what I learned:

1. When I listen to loud action movies, the sides thru the XPA-5 sound great, but they have no where near the amount of content or volume as the fronts. (Meaning, the amp was not necessary and is not really used for the sides... just like the advice said.)

2. We listen to most music only thru the fronts, (stereo). Occasionally when people are over, I'll use 7-channel stereo to more evenly fill up the room. But I don't do it at high volume as I'm not trying to drown out conversation or simulate a concert hall. (Meaning, the amp was not necessary and is not really used for the sides... just like the advice said.)

Conclusion: Just like the advice you and I got, a 2 or 3 channel amp is plenty if your AVR and speakers are mid-range or better.

BUT, at the end of the day, I have long forgotten the extra few hundred $ I paid for the XPA-5... what I have sounds great... I'm satisfied and not wondering IF I should have gone more/bigger. So my suggestion is spend what your budget and inclination support. My car will go faster than I drive, my guns are more accurate than I am, my smoker holds more meat than I ever cook at one time, my HT has capability beyond what I use... and I'm happy with them all.