Denon DVD-5910CI DVD Player Review

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD5910CIp1.php"><IMG style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 51px" alt=[5910] hspace=5 src="http://www.audioholics.com/news/thumbs/5910_th.jpg" align=left vspace=5 border=0></A>If you are after the very best in a DVD playback system with respect to audio or video performance, look no further than the DVD-5910CI.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Simply put, it has pushed the envelope of performance for conventional DVD and then some. Denon should never make a better standard definition player – there’s really nothing else to improve upon at this point.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN><?xml:namespace prefix = o /></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">[Read the Review]<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>[DVD Comparison Checklist Results]</SPAN></P>
 
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ironlung

ironlung

Banned
Audioholics the nostalgic online A/V magazine.

$3800 SD-DVD player....Bwahahabwahahabwahaha


Did you guys see the new Pioneer elite laserdisc player? 400 lines of razor sharp picture, AC3 audio, the works. $937 U.S. but a bargain at twice the price.



When are you guys going to review the hot new Nakamichi cassette deck? I hear it has Dolby S noise reduction. The S stands for sweeeeeeeeeeet. With the noise reduction and a metal oxide tape I hear it's "almost" as good as a CD!


Ironlung
(puttin' a new fang in the Cobra tonearm...)
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
$3800 SD-DVD player....Bwahahabwahahabwahaha


Did you guys see the new Pioneer elite laserdisc player? 400 lines of razor sharp picture, AC3 audio, the works. $937 U.S. but a bargain at twice the price.



When are you guys going to review the hot new Nakamichi cassette deck? I hear it has Dolby S noise reduction. The S stands for sweeeeeeeeeeet. With the noise reduction and a metal oxide tape I hear it's "almost" as good as a CD!


Ironlung
(puttin' a new fang in the Cobra tonearm...)
__________________
Your favorite dim wited egomaniacal bastard,
Ironlung

Most of my posts have sarcasm in them, but not this one.
Yes a standard player that looks better than pretty much every Blu-ray disc I've seen on the Samsung BD-P1000. Not to mention no HD or Blu-ray player will handle DVD-A and SACD. While you can enjoy you're half dozen High def discs on these new players, most of your viewing time will be spent on standard DVD. Most of my time has been enjoying the awesome fidelity of this player which currently has no equal.

Until these scenarios can be addressed....:rolleyes:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/10reasonsHDDVDsfailed.php
 
ironlung

ironlung

Banned
Until these scenarios can be addressed...

gene said:
Yes a standard player that looks better than pretty much every Blu-ray disc I've seen on the Samsung BD-P1000.
Is that a problem with the player or a lack of care in preparing the content on the disc? Does the same apply to HD-DVD? Are there any SD-DVD's that are not reference quality recordings that this player "fixes"?

1080p > 480p


gene said:
Not to mention no HD or Blu-ray player will handle DVD-A and SACD. While you can enjoy you're half dozen High def discs on these new players, most of your viewing time will be spent on standard DVD.
So a half dozen obscure recordings on obscure dieing formats is a great reason to buy a 4 grand player. I wish you guys would do a double blind comparo on the 500 dollar toshiba vs. this beast. Even without the vital DVD-A, SACD compatibility it may be eye opening.

Is there a technical reason that the high def discs could not be audio only? HD/Blu are high resolution sound with more discrete channels than SACD or DVD-A correct?

gene said:
Most of my time has been enjoying the awesome fidelity of this player which currently has no equal.
I wonder if Denon put this much effort into a blu/hd player...
 
P

pbarach1

Audioholic
thanks for the review

Although I don't plan to purchase this unit, I am grateful to the reviewer for explaining the menu options so clearly. I own a 3910, and the manual is vague about the meanings of many of the video and audio menu options. Since the two units share many of the same settings, this review contains clear explanations that I can use to compensate for the vague information in the 3910's manual.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
I agree...thanks for the review

Gene,

Thanks for the review. I'm never going to buy such a machine, but I like to read about them and get a feel for what makes them different from the less expensive DVD players.

I am curious if you know how well the higher-def players (HD-DVD or Blu-ray) do with standard DVDs, relative to the cost of the players? Except for the entry-level high-def players, the players are around $1000. On standard DVDs, would their performance be that of a $1000 standard player? Or more like that of a $200 unit?

Thanks.

Adam
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Is that a problem with the player or a lack of care in preparing the content on the disc? Does the same apply to HD-DVD? Are there any SD-DVD's that are not reference quality recordings that this player "fixes"?
I believe the discs are at fault in this case since many of them are still using Mpeg2 compression. Hopefully this will improve with time but of course at a premium in price of the discs for sure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

A player cannot "fix" bad source material. But the 5910 in this case does a great job at noise reduction which I am not sure and Blu Ray or HD players can do as well for SD DVD's, and superb upscaling to the native resolution of your display. Don't fail to realize the 5910 and 3930 have HQV processing which comes at a premium but allows these players to have a significant performance edge over any others on the market when playing SD DVD's. There is currently no HD or Blu Ray player that can play SD DVD's as well as these Denon machines. The closest right now would be the Toshiba HD player which does a very good job with SD dvd's, much better than the Samsung Blu Ray player does.

So a half dozen obscure recordings on obscure dieing formats is a great reason to buy a 4 grand player. I wish you guys would do a double blind comparo on the 500 dollar toshiba vs. this beast. Even without the vital DVD-A, SACD compatibility it may be eye opening.
I agree DVD-A and SACD aren't mainstream, and likely never will be, but I am really digging my collection of about 50 DVD-A and SACD discs much more than listening to any regular 2CH CD's or DD/DTS concert videos. If you haven't heard how well these formats can sound, I suggest picking up some discs from AIX records (DVD-A) or Premonition Records (SACD). I will confess, I am heavily biased into audio performance over video, which is why I am such a fan of the 5910 player.

I wonder if Denon put this much effort into a blu/hd player...
Unfortunately there are licensing issues at play here as well as availibility of the blue laser diodes to build these players, not to mention consistency in manufacturing them.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/30/blu-ray-and-hd-dvd-delays-due-to-blue-laser-shortage/

I am curious if you know how well the higher-def players (HD-DVD or Blu-ray) do with standard DVDs, relative to the cost of the players? Except for the entry-level high-def players, the players are around $1000. On standard DVDs, would their performance be that of a $1000 standard player? Or more like that of a $200 unit?
The best one right now that we've seen for playing SD DVD's is the Toshiba unit but its still not the 3930CI equal, let alone the 5910CI. Why Denon didn't provide the opportunity to use the 3930 or 5910 as an external processor for all of your video sources is beyond me. I think they really missed out on this.
 
P

perato

Audioholic Intern
According to Denon's website, it seems as if three common DACs used in Denon's players are PCM1792 (5910CI), PCM1796 (3910 & 3930CI), and PCM1791 (5805, 5805MKII, 4806, 4306, 3806). If PCM1792 is better than 1796, is 1791 better than 1792? I cannot find the PCM1791 on Texas Instruments website, only PCM1791A. It seems as if TI bought out Burr-Brown so maybe part numbers changed?

In Systems 1, 2 and 3, Audioholics has 5805, 5910, 5900, and 3910. If you still have 5910CI and 3930CI, can you compare the audio performance of these players/receivers side by side, similar to your comparison of the DACs in 5805 and 5910CI? If you can hear a difference, is it worth the cost? Wouldn't you need a well treated and designed room (and ultra-expensive) room to hear any difference?

Your review basically says that if you can spend US$3800 on the 5910CI, then you should spend even more for a high end processor/receiver such as the 5805MKII. Couldn't you use a cheaper receiver and just keep the receiver in pure direct mode for audio and use the multi-channel analog outs? That's what I do with the 3910 and an Onkyo TX-SR701 receiver.

I give you the benefit of the doubt when you say the 5910CI can beat mega-buck players with fewer features from other companies; but the internet abounds with d-ck measuring forums (not this one) that claim other, more expensive, brands are better. It would be nice if Audioholics can obtain some ultra-expensive players, processors, or amplifiers from some of the more popular expensive brands such as Classe, Krell, McIntosh, Bryston, etc. to prove that good gear, while expensive, need not put you in the poorhouse. Perhaps you could review one or two such products per year.

BTW, the System 2 webpage does not say if you updated the 3910 firmware. Did you? perhaps you can post an addendum to the 3910 review.
 
RLA

RLA

Audioholic Chief
Hello All,

Usually I don’t respond to threads that contain reviews other than my own but I think this is one I would like to offer my opinion on. The 5910 is a remarkable DVD player. It’s true that this DVD player is in a price class that many won’t consider but for the folks that can I say go for it and here is why. I have the Toshiba HD-A1 and love it to death but its no 5910 sure it plays all of my 5 HD-DVD's and does a very good job of up converting SD DVD's but its no 5910.The 5910 is top dog in fidelity and its ability to up convert SD DVD's and it has no equal in the market place regardless of price.

The bottom line here is if you have the cash and want the best performing player for redbook 2-channel, DVD-A and SD-DVD up conversion the 5910 is the one to buy period! I will gladly trade my Toshiba HD-A1 and my Samsung BDP-1000 player for a Denon 5910, why? Because I would love to have the best in my rack and I would gleefully re watch the 1100 SD DVD’s that I have in my collection with the awesome Silicon Optix based 5910. Great review Gene you have me drooling on my shoes with this one! ;)
 
N

ned

Full Audioholic
Gene, there are more than 100 releases on the HDDVD side alone. Blu-ray has clean up their act and the latest release are equivalent to the HDDVD in PQ. SD-DVD upconverting technology is quite mature and good ones can be have for a few hundred dollars. When you say that Sd is better than HD - that is just not true anymore, especially for HDDVD from the beginning. I would rather invest on an external processor like my Realta HD.

BTW, I just watched the HDDVD release on Pat Metheny's concert in DTS HD. You have reviewed the live concert at Ruth Eckerd Hall, maybe you should give it a try.
 
ironlung

ironlung

Banned
Up scaling = good enough

Why do respected CE reviewers continue to spread the horse hockey that up scaling SD-DVD are equal to or better than actual material encoded in HD?

Can I use the best processor to up scale a laserdisc to HD quality? How about 240 line VHS? Can it be transformed into HD glory with the chips in the denon? Thats pulling ALOT of picture from nowhere!!!! The answer is a boldface NO!


Reference quality 480p picture upscaled to 1080p DOES NOT EQUAL reference quality material encoded at 1080p...it's impossible!!!

[Admin] Post has been edited b/c of rude and combative tone b/c you twisted the intent of a post from the ADMIN of the site. Consider this your only warning.
 
ironlung

ironlung

Banned
gene said:
A player cannot "fix" bad source material.
But it can make standard definition material into high definition material.



gene said:
I agree DVD-A and SACD aren't mainstream, and likely never will be, but I am really digging my collection of about 50 DVD-A and SACD discs much more than listening to any regular 2CH CD's or DD/DTS concert videos. If you haven't heard how well these formats can sound, I suggest picking up some discs from AIX records (DVD-A) or Premonition Records (SACD). I will confess, I am heavily biased into audio performance over video, which is why I am such a fan of the 5910 player.
I'll quote myself...


ironlung said:
Is there a technical reason that the high def discs could not be audio only? HD/Blu are high resolution sound with more discrete channels than SACD or DVD-A correct?
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Gene, there are more than 100 releases on the HDDVD side alone. Blu-ray has clean up their act and the latest release are equivalent to the HDDVD in PQ. SD-DVD upconverting technology is quite mature and good ones can be have for a few hundred dollars. When you say that Sd is better than HD - that is just not true anymore, especially for HDDVD from the beginning.
Yea thats great if you wanna watch Lethal Weapon 1 or Waterworld, but the software selection of movies people actually want to watch is still very limited.

I never said SD is better than HD. I simply said most of the first gen Blu-ray discs did not measure up, NOR did the first gen player. Hopefully this will improve in time. I was a stickler about the first few gen DVD-A and SACD players as well b/c they lacked bass management and a digital audio output. A lot has happened for the good since then.

See: http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/DVD-AudioSACD2.php

Personally, I am not an early adopter. I don't like antiquated solutions. Its simply ridiculous that you need to yet again run 6 analog connections from the DVD player to the receiver to get the new HD audio formats. Its even more ridiculous that these new formats are capable of true 7.1 discrete surround sound but this feature is not being exploited b/c the industry can't decide on what to do with the extra 2 channels! Instead of using them as back channels like 95% of consumers have deployed in their rooms, they let them sit at idle.

See: http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/SurroundSound.php

BTW, I just watched the HDDVD release on Pat Metheny's concert in DTS HD. You have reviewed the live concert at Ruth Eckerd Hall, maybe you should give it a try.
Ah now thats enough reason for me to get an HD Player for sure ;) I plan on picking up a Gen2 Toshiba HD player next year to test it out but I still long for the day where we have a player that will do ALL FORMATS and transmit the audio down a single cable solution and allow the processor to do all of the decoding and bass management. I know I am an idealist ;)
 
RLA

RLA

Audioholic Chief
Gene, there are more than 100 releases on the HDDVD side alone. Blu-ray has clean up their act and the latest release are equivalent to the HDDVD in PQ. SD-DVD
And just like SD-DVD there are reference HD-DVD's and non reference HD-DVD's that look no better than the SD version, some look worse ( Sleepy Hollow& 12 Monkeys is a good example) . The Samsung Blu-ray player is still not equal to the performance of the Toshiba even with the latest firmware upgrade. You are correct that the 5910 will not produce an image equivalent to HD-DVD with reference material like the HD-DVD Chronicles of Riddick but the 5910 is the superior up converting player by a wide margin. I am a very strong proponent of HD-DVD and Blu-ray I hope both survive and we get a combo player.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Ok

RLA said:
And just like SD-DVD there are reference HD-DVD's and non reference HD-DVD's that look no better than the SD version, some look worse ( Sleepy Hollow& 12 Monkeys is a good example) . The Samsung Blu-ray player is still not equal to the performance of the Toshiba even with the latest firmware upgrade. You are correct that the 5910 will not produce an image equivalent to HD-DVD with reference material like the HD-DVD Chronicles of Riddick but the 5910 is the superior up converting player by a wide margin. I am a very strong proponent of HD-DVD and Blu-ray I hope both survive and we get a combo player.
in laymen terms, if the denon 5910 & Toshiba hd dvd use a top quality reference disc for what they each were designed for the PQ surely won't be equal:confused: The fact is the Denon player is only a upconversion player and won't take you up the evolution ladder in the future?
 
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RLA

RLA

Audioholic Chief
in laymens terms, if the denon 5910 & Toshiba hd dvd use a top quality reference disc for what they each were designed for the PQ surely won't be equal The fact is the Denon player is only a upconversion player and won't take you up evolution ladder in the future?
True, but for the high income audiophile/videophiles that have a large collection of SD-DVD's this is the Holy Grail. Keep in mind that the 5910 is also a reference multi-channel/ Redbook DVD/CD player as well. As HD-DVD or Blu-ray players and software become more main stream a player may be developed that will outperform the 5910 in all performance categories, but until then it has no equal.
 
Folks, the DVD-5910CI is also a great product for custom installers (which honestly is what I see as its target market, not budget-conscious consumers)... It gives them a nice markup product but actually has the guts to perform as a flagship player (instead of just looking like one as many esoteric brands do). Some people simply want the best and will pay whatever to get it. For SD DVD, DVD-Audio and SACD - this is probably it.

Anyone who balks at the price of a DVD-5910 isn't the target consumer for it.

High definition DVD formats are awesome - but I still think the industry is doing its best ot make it a niche product that will not take over as DVD did to VHS.
 
N

ned

Full Audioholic
Gene, your statement may be accurate during the early release of BR movies but the quality now is comparable to HDDVD.

As for the slection available, please look at the current selection that HDDVD and BR has to offer. You'll be surprise. http://www.highdefdigest.com/

I watch a lot of movies and more than half of my selections are now available in HD in either format.
 

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