Cannot get MOTION BLUR to go away!

[Jamester23]

Hi all,


I recently bought a Marantz SR6011. Ever since I got it I've not been able to adjust the motion blur on my Samsung UN65KS8000F TV.

I see motion blur on Satellite (as an example NFLN Ch. 212 even the crawl at the bottom blurs) and HD Roku on all apps.

Current TV settings are:
Movie Mode
Backlight 12
Brightness 31
Contrast 95
Sharpness 26
Color 50
Tint G47 R53
Apply all sources
Digital Clean View - Auto
Autumn Motion Plus Custon Blur 10
Judder 6 Led Clear Motion OFF
HDMI UHD Color - ON
Dynamic Contrast Medium


MARANTZ SR 6011 Settings:
Video Mode - Auto (Cannot Be switched OFF)
Video Conversion - OFF

I never saw the motion blur until I hooked up the Marantz and now I cannot get it to go away. Please help!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I've never seen an avr that couldn't be set to pass through. I'll dig around a little when I get a sec.

 

[Jamester23]

I've never seen an avr that couldn't be set to pass through. I'll dig around a little when I get a sec.

That'd be spectacular. Thanks.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hi all,


I recently bought a Marantz SR6011. Ever since I got it I've not been able to adjust the motion blur on my Samsung UN65KS8000F TV.

I see motion blur on Satellite (as an example NFLN Ch. 212 even the crawl at the bottom blurs) and HD Roku on all apps.

Current TV settings are:
Movie Mode
Backlight 12
Brightness 31
Contrast 95
Sharpness 26
Color 50
Tint G47 R53
Apply all sources
Digital Clean View - Auto
Autumn Motion Plus Custon Blur 10
Judder 6 Led Clear Motion OFF
HDMI UHD Color - ON
Dynamic Contrast Medium


MARANTZ SR 6011 Settings:
Video Mode - Auto (Cannot Be switched OFF)
Video Conversion - OFF

I never saw the motion blur until I hooked up the Marantz and now I cannot get it to go away. Please help!

Have you tried to play (on/off min/max) with these settings?:
Autumn Motion Plus Custon Blur
Judder 6 Led Clear Motion OFF

 

[Jamester23]

Have you tried to play (on/off min/max) with these settings?:
Autumn Motion Plus Custon Blur
Judder 6 Led Clear Motion OFF

I don't know what autumn motion plus blur is?

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't know what autumn motion plus blur is?

You posted it, maybe it was "auto" with some sort of voice regognition or autocorrect software?

 

[TLS Guy]

The OPs problem is that modern TVs especially 4K TVs are just plain no good and should not be purchased.

My son just bought a Samsung TV that I think was similar to yours, but a bit bigger. He said the motion artifact was terrible. He does not use a receiver.

So he exchanged it for a $6000 Sony of the same size. Apart from having a lousy Android interface there is still motion artifact and the colors are unnatural. When I saw it I was appalled and have been looking into it.

The problem it seems is compressed sources. Now all your sources listed are compressed sources, both audio and video.

People are starting to take notice and object to this.

I spoke to one of my sons who is head of software development for a firm based out of the UK that is a leader in world wide Internet AV meetings. He is well aware of the problem. The issue is that 4K requires higher compression and makes compression artifact worse. They have discouraged 4K screens

So the compression required for cable, satellite and Internet distribution makes compression artifact much worse.

So if you want to restrict your viewing to 4K BD discs and view at a distance of less than 12 ft, go ahead and buy a 4K TV. If this is not the case avoid them like the plague.

So I'm sticking with my two Panny plasmas and my Fujitsu plasmavision, which I much prefer to any TVs I see now.

 

[Jamester23]

Anybody got a little help for me? Love all the feedback on whether I bought the right tv or not but it;s the one I have and I'm using the best available products out there for content so I just need a little help.

Found a very weird answer out there on another board. It's actually an issue in the tv. Theres a bug in the new software that causes motion blur to strangely be fixed when I switch to vivid and turn off Digital clean view. I then adjusted the settings for vivid to the settings I had adjusted to in MOVIE. Only issue now is that Warm and Warm 2 are not available under vivid only cool and standard.

With hat said it;s still quite bizarre that I can't just do pass through with the receiver as the addition of the Marantz timing wise was RIGHT when things started looking strange.

 

[TLS Guy]

Anybody got a little help for me? Love all the feedback on whether I bought the right tv or not but it;s the one I have and I'm using the best available products out there for content so I just need a little help.

Found a very weird answer out there on another board. It's actually an issue in the tv. Theres a bug in the new software that causes motion blur to strangely be fixed when I switch to vivid and turn off Digital clean view. I then adjusted the settings for vivid to the settings I had adjusted to in MOVIE. Only issue now is that Warm and Warm 2 are not available under vivid only cool and standard.

With hat said it;s still quite bizarre that I can't just do pass through with the receiver as the addition of the Marantz timing wise was RIGHT when things started looking strange.

I don't believe the Marantz had anything to do with it. I never saw my son's Samsung TV, but he said it was awful and took it right back. I stand by my opinion the the current crop of TVs are not worth the money.

Certainly upgrading to 4K is a complete waste of time and money.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hi jamester. Looking at the manual now. Have you gone straight to the tv again? Just to double check. I don't doubt you're seeing what your seeing but it's good sometimes just to make sure.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Slogging through marantz lingo is interesting. I'm suspicious of the ip upscaler function. Try setting it to 1080p(or whatever the native signal is). I'm thinking since the marantz isn't allowing straight pass through, it's using auto upscale to send the highest resolution the tv will accept. Normally the display will have a much better processor for this and this might be the problem. If you can't have pass through, maybe setting the marantz to the input resolution will work the same way. Still digging...

 

[Irvrobinson]

I spoke to one of my sons who is head of software development for a firm based out of the UK that is a leader in world wide Internet AV meetings. He is well aware of the problem. The issue is that 4K requires higher compression and makes compression artifact worse. They have discouraged 4K screens

So the compression required for cable, satellite and Internet distribution makes compression artifact much worse.

I'm not following your son's reasoning. 4K video does indeed take different compression algorithms, but the OP is talking about 1080p (he calls it HD).

More likely the problem is the very software-driven nature of the current generation of 4K monitors for video stream processing. That Samsung, like so many other 4K displays, use a native 120Hz display and then use software to claim 240Hz-like motion resolution, and for 1080p there's up-sampling going on too, and, while I'm just guessing, I think what the OP is seeing is nothing more than inefficient software or an inadequately spec'd SoC.

Here's an article I was reading when I was working out lip synch with my new Roku:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/lcdtvs/turn-off-these-3-features-in-every-tv

(The Roku's problem was solved by new firmware, and even that release is not very good, with occasional pops and noises when switching between videos.)

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm not following your son's reasoning. 4K video does indeed take different compression algorithms, but the OP is talking about 1080p (he calls it HD).

More likely the problem is the very software-driven nature of the current generation of 4K monitors for video stream processing. That Samsung, like so many other 4K displays, use a native 120Hz display and then use software to claim 240Hz-like motion resolution, and for 1080p there's up-sampling going on too, and, while I'm just guessing, I think what the OP is seeing is nothing more than inefficient software or an inadequately spec'd SoC.

Here's an article I was reading when I was working out lip synch with my new Roku:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/lcdtvs/turn-off-these-3-features-in-every-tv

(The Roku's problem was solved by new firmware, and even that release is not very good, with occasional pops and noises when switching between videos.)

Another article showing the hassle and complexity of modern TVs.

In my view TVs should not be smart but dumb. They should have no speakers or amps. They should come properly calibrated and just have an on/off button.

A screen is an end device like a loudspeaker and should not have a bunch of facilities loaded up on it.

And further more I don't use ROKU or any junk like that, but a computer I built out of first class parts.

The hassles all this cheap junk creates in beyond belief.

A happy AV existence is well made, engineered and carefully selected items. If you don't go that route expect to suffer.

 

[Irvrobinson]

And further more I don't use ROKU or any junk like that, but a computer I built out of first class parts.

For the usage models you've written about, which includes a lot of YouTube watching, I'd have to agree. For ours, which is mostly Netflix, Amazon, and BluRays, the Roku and AppleTV are much cheaper and take up a lot less space. The newest Roku is the challenge. They went over-board on software processing compared to the original models, and it seems like Roku is not yet a great software company.

In my Bay Area apartment I use an iMac with AudioEngine speakers as my HT set-up, and I agree with all of your comments about the superiority of a web browser interface. The iMac display with the Nvidia GPU has excellent picture quality and smoother motion than I've ever achieved on my primary system in my home, but I wish it was bigger than 27".

 

[Alex2507]

And further more I don't use ROKU or any junk like that ...

That explains why Greg gave me a Roku stick without any warning. I just had SWMBO tell me, "You're the Audioholic, not me." No web browser interface for her! Actually I've been okay with PQ and SQ with Roku and Firebox so long as we're only accessing legit Amazon Prime content. Once we go off the rails using Kodi, it's a sh!t show. The girl doesn't really care but I imagine that I'll be visiting Redbox for the few movies that I really want to see.

The iMac display with the Nvidia GPU has excellent picture quality and smoother motion than I've ever achieved on my primary system in my home, but I wish it was bigger than 27".

I'm sure we're miles apart but now I have a Nvidia something or other too. I'm gonna get the computer cooking with something just to check this out. I hope nothing blows up.

 

[herbu]

I've been okay with PQ and SQ with Roku and Firebox so long as we're only accessing legit Amazon Prime content. Once we go off the rails using Kodi, it's a sh!t show.

Boy, am I glad to hear you say that. I thought it was just me.

 

[Tao1]

I'm not following your son's reasoning. 4K video does indeed take different compression algorithms, but the OP is talking about 1080p (he calls it HD).

More likely the problem is the very software-driven nature of the current generation of 4K monitors for video stream processing. That Samsung, like so many other 4K displays, use a native 120Hz display and then use software to claim 240Hz-like motion resolution, and for 1080p there's up-sampling going on too, and, while I'm just guessing, I think what the OP is seeing is nothing more than inefficient software or an inadequately spec'd SoC.

Here's an article I was reading when I was working out lip synch with my new Roku:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/lcdtvs/turn-off-these-3-features-in-every-tv

(The Roku's problem was solved by new firmware, and even that release is not very good, with occasional pops and noises when switching between videos.)

I come from the PC side of things where monitors are more advanced in the technology. Refresh rate doesn't combat motion blur. Motion blur is a creature related to pixel response time. In other words how fast the pixel can turn on and off. Additional frames only take out the stuttery appearance of fast motion or scene panning. In the OP's case, it seems it is an issue with the software processing of the image.

If you want low pixel response time in a TV, go with an OLED. As far as I can tell most TVs will use IPS panels which have good colour, but not very good pixel response time. Only the best panels will have a response time where motion blur isn't noticeable. Some will use back light strobing to give CRT like quality with virtually no motion blur, but it is hard to get good brightness, and I don't think any tvs use this trick.

On that note, even the Samsung 4k KS9000 model does indeed have 120hz native refresh. This surprised me actually, but looking at the user manual it can't do more that a 75 fps native source. Essentially, the refresh rate is wasted as it is only used by the processor for frame rate fudgery so common in TVs. Not to mention that HDMI can barely do 4k at 60hz.

It is unfortunate that so much effort (and marketing effort) is put into post processing of the signal. This is absolutely unnecessary - at least if they used a quality panel to begin with. PC monitors have a much better picture, and don't do post processing (it increases frame latency which is another issue).



As for the OP's problem: Try turning all signal post processing off. Not sure if that can even be done, but its worth a try.

 

[Tankman]

Hi all,


I recently bought a Marantz SR6011. Ever since I got it I've not been able to adjust the motion blur on my Samsung UN65KS8000F TV.

I see motion blur on Satellite (as an example NFLN Ch. 212 even the crawl at the bottom blurs) and HD Roku on all apps.

Current TV settings are:
Movie Mode
Backlight 12
Brightness 31
Contrast 95
Sharpness 26
Color 50
Tint G47 R53
Apply all sources
Digital Clean View - Auto
Autumn Motion Plus Custon Blur 10
Judder 6 Led Clear Motion OFF
HDMI UHD Color - ON
Dynamic Contrast Medium


MARANTZ SR 6011 Settings:
Video Mode - Auto (Cannot Be switched OFF)
Video Conversion - OFF

I never saw the motion blur until I hooked up the Marantz and now I cannot get it to go away. Please help!

Just asking for I see on your Thread that you already have a lot of advice and comments on your thread with others helping out. One question if you don't mind, are you letting your AVR video processing? or are you just doing a pass through with the video?

Mike

 

[Irvrobinson]

If you want low pixel response time in a TV, go with an OLED. As far as I can tell most TVs will use IPS panels which have good colour, but not very good pixel response time. Only the best panels will have a response time where motion blur isn't noticeable. Some will use back light strobing to give CRT like quality with virtually no motion blur, but it is hard to get good brightness, and I don't think any tvs use this trick.

I've tested our 70" 4K LCD monitor with two difficult types of video. One was a BD of a drum & bugle corps competition. If you've never seen such a thing, there are about 120-150 young people (you age out at 21) participating in choreographed marching in various patterns on a football field simultaneously while playing band instruments. Some of the patterns are quite complex and different for each person. (This would seriously stress any compression schemes in the data path.) When we've tried to stream shows like this you easily see motion blur. On the BD, no blur at all, which means the LCD monitor is not the limiter.

Another test I just did yesterday, perhaps much more stringent, I watched the Indy 500 on Comcast. I probably watched for about an hour, and much to my surprise again, I noticed no blur at all, and I was looking for it. This tells me that the blur most people notice isn't in the display, but in some associated electronics, like streaming devices or AVRs.

 

[Tao1]

I've tested our 70" 4K LCD monitor with two difficult types of video. One was a BD of a drum & bugle corps competition. If you've never seen such a thing, there are about 120-150 young people (you age out at 21) participating in choreographed marching in various patterns on a football field simultaneously while playing band instruments. Some of the patterns are quite complex and different for each person. (This would serious stress any compression schemes in the data path.) When we've tried to stream shows like this you easily see motion blur. On the BD, no blur at all, which means the LCD monitor is not the limiter.

An another test just yesterday, perhaps much more stringent, I watched the Indy 500 on Comcast. I probably watched for about an hour, and much to my surprise again, I noticed no blur at all, and I was looking for it. This tells me that the blur most people notice isn't in the display, but in some associated electronics, like streaming devices or AVRs.

Streaming is the key point there. My main point was about refresh rate not really being a factor in motion blur, but I should clarify further: I made the assumption that the OP was viewing uncompressed content, or content compressed properly. Compression adds perceived motion blur due to dropped information. This is similar to someone making an MP3 file by making it as small a file size as possible, and thus having terrible quality.

I am no expert on video compression, but what I do notice is that scenes with motion become really pixelated and look like 360p even if it is 1080p or 4k. This blur settles down once a couple similar frames of still motion are displayed. In these cases it is almost as if the compression relies on sharing information between frames.

If the OP is experiencing this, I can't imagine any fix for it on his end. At least I doubt any post processing can 'patch' the holes in the information to the extent where the image is reconstructed to some form of clarity. At least with the motion blur due to the compression to the extent I am thinking about.