B&W 802D: 3rd Time's a Charm on Friday the 13th

[cpp]

Everyone thinks that, and rightly so. The room is certainly not ideal by any means. But all these speakers sound great in this room.

Of course, I would love to have 2 large rooms to spread out the speakers.

But for now, it'll have to do. These speakers sound great even all together in the same room side by side. I'm sure they would sound even better in a better room.

about time the R2D2 twins got there. Now I can go on another vacation knowing that in speakerland AcuDefTechGuy has got the land of speakers covered. But I have to agree, the crowed room could be impacting the sound your hearing meaning, being less crowed could improve upon the sound even more which means ( mo better). It's like your using speakers as a means of acoustic room treatments Of course a new room would be optimal.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 2004 may be sufficient, but these speakers require a well designed amp.

I'm sure most people know their reputation for being "power hungry".

But as I said, I had to decrease the channel levels by 3 full decibels when switching from the Phil3 to 802D2.

I was listening to Dave Mathews & Tim Reynolds Radio City Hall last night. From about 12ft out, the peak SPL was 92dBC with the Denon master volume at -25.0dB. So I really don't see how the B&W are difficult to drive.

I know theoretically the 802s should be very difficult to drive (min impedance 3ohms). But in my reality, they don't seem very difficult to drive at all. They seem to be a lot easier to drive than the Phil3, which I think Dennis Murphy says a capable 100wpc amp should drive just fine.

The KEF 201/2 (4ohm nominal) are also harder to drive than the 802s based on my experience. Yet when I auditioned them, the dealer used an 80wpc integrated amp, and the KEF sounded beautifully and loudly to my satisfaction.

So theory on one hand, reality on the other hand.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

about time the R2D2 twins got there. Now I can go on another vacation knowing that in speakerland AcuDefTechGuy has got the land of speakers covered. But I have to agree, the crowed room could be impacting the sound your hearing meaning, being less crowed could improve upon the sound even more which means ( mo better). It's like your using speakers as a means of acoustic room treatments Of course a new room would be optimal.

Hey, I'm building my case for a bigger house here.

 

[canelli]

AcuDefTechGuy,

Congrats on the new D2s.

My B&W speakers are not the same as yours, but I found that my old avr would be pushed into higher distortions when trying to drive them at movie levels. This created a slight change in sound during very busy/loud scenes. A dedicated amp cleared up the problem and did make an identifiable difference.

So from my experience, I wouldn't measure the ability of an amp to create spl as a rule of thumb as to how well the speakers are being driven.

 

[Jeepers]

The 2004 may be sufficient, but these speakers require a well designed amp.

B&W 802D loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

The link refers to the 802D whereas AcuDefTechGuy purchased the 802Di. I am confident that the 802Di has different characteristics.

 

[ridikas]

Acu, there are two more excellent testing speakers in the market today. The hybrid metal/wood Magico and the fully metal built YG. Have you heard them, or would consider owning a pair?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Acu, there are two more excellent testing speakers in the market today. The hybrid metal/wood Magico and the fully metal built YG. Have you heard them, or would consider owning a pair?

I think they are over my budget. I might be convinced of Dynaudio, though. Who knows how much longer my P362 will last.

My budget is down to like $3K now.

Have you heard other lower price Dynaudio speakers? Where are Dynaudio speakers made?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So from my experience, I wouldn't measure the ability of an amp to create spl as a rule of thumb as to how well the speakers are being driven.

I know. I have been listening to peak SPL of 92dBC from about 12 ft out. They sound great with every music I'ved played. That's as loud as I'm willing to listen to. Anymore would cause physical pain.

I have not heard any kind of distortion whatsoever.

 

[ridikas]

I've heard every single Dynaudio speaker up to the Confidence C4 IIs. I never listened to the insanely expensive Consequence and Evidence lines. The C2 II and the C4 II are two of my favorite speakers that I've ever heard, at any price.

I believe Dynaudio is still made in Denmark.

I wasn't impressed with anything under the Contour Series (Which were very nice too!).

With what you already have, why even bother with $3K speakers anymore? But if you want to replace the $400 P362s with something in the $3K range, waiting for the new Revel Performa3 line is what I would definitely do

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

With what you already have, why even bother with $3K speakers anymore? But if you want to replace the $400 P362s with something in the $3K range, waiting for the new Revel Performa3 line is what I would definitely do

Already have Revel. Must be different.

 

[ridikas]

Well...

Dynaudio
Focal
PSB
Usher

or

Sonus Faber

 

[templemaners]

Already have Revel. Must be different.

pssst......JTR Triple 8's...

change it up! Especially if the room is big.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well...

Dynaudio
Focal
PSB
Usher

or

Sonus Faber

But are you saying the Dynaudio Excite X32 @ $3K isn't very good compared to the Confidence line?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

pssst......JTR Triple 8's...

change it up! Especially if the room is big.

What about Triple8 Low Profile, instead of the regular HT?

I was thinking of placing them horizontally above the TV. Thoughts?

 

[templemaners]

What about Triple8 Low Profile, instead of the regular HT?

I was thinking of placing them horizontally above the TV. Thoughts?

I would think the LP would work just as well as the ported version, especially since you'll be crossing to a sub(s) right?

As for the horizontal placement, wouldn't you get some serious lobing between the two?

Another option (though it wouldn't be as different as the JTR's compared to your existing speakers) would be the $3K speaker I'd want.

 

[KEW]

But as I said, I had to decrease the channel levels by 3 full decibels when switching from the Phil3 to 802D2.

I know theoretically the 802s should be very difficult to drive (min impedance 3ohms). But in my reality, they don't seem very difficult to drive at all. They seem to be a lot easier to drive than the Phil3, which I think Dennis Murphy says a capable 100wpc amp should drive just fine.

I'm outside my comfort zone talking about this and hope someone can help us out, but I suspect the volume control is not a comprehensive gauge of power requirements or if the amp is struggling.

I would bet a cheap AVR would die pretty quick with a 3 ohm load. I believe this could happen at -20dB. That doesn't mean it could not play loudly as it fried.
My brother has destroyed the amp sections of a Yamaha RX-797, Onkyo TX-8555, and a Carver TFM-15CB amplifier, by driving too low of an impedance. According to him, they sounded fine until they suddenly cut out.

Now hopefully someone will come along and illuminate us!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm outside my comfort zone talking about this and hope someone can help us out, but I suspect the volume control is not a comprehensive gauge of power requirements or if the amp is struggling.

I would bet a cheap AVR would die pretty quick with a 3 ohm load. I believe this could happen at -20dB. That doesn't mean it could not play loudly as it fried.
My brother has destroyed the amp sections of a Yamaha RX-797, Onkyo TX-8555, and a Carver TFM-15CB amplifier, by driving too low of an impedance. According to him, they sounded fine until they suddenly cut out.

Now hopefully someone will come along and illuminate us!

In any case, the AT2004 can output over 400wpc into 4ohms at 1%THD (Outlaw 7500 measured 493wpc x 2ch into 4 ohms 1% THD). So it's probably good.

So no, I would not drive the 802D2 with just an AVR w/o a serious amp like the ATI.

 

[PENG]

The Phil3 sound effortless and extremely clean and loud with the Denon 3312 set to -20dB. So I won't be adding an external amp with the Phil3.



The 802D2 are a lot more sensitive than the Phil3. They also sound extremely clean, clear, and loud with the Denon 3310 + AT2004 volume set to -20dB.



AJ actually said in an email that in all seriousness, he believes the 802D2 can sound good. Everyone has a different opinion. There's no arguing that they don't measure as well as Salon2 or KEF 201/2 or some others. But subjective impression and enjoyment is what counts in the end.

I was guessing, now I know, thanks. Oh, I hope TLSG is taking notes, i.e. not everyone/every environment need big separate preamp and amps to sound good, AVR could work too.

 

[PENG]

I'm outside my comfort zone talking about this and hope someone can help us out, but I suspect the volume control is not a comprehensive gauge of power requirements or if the amp is struggling.

I would bet a cheap AVR would die pretty quick with a 3 ohm load. I believe this could happen at -20dB. That doesn't mean it could not play loudly as it fried.
My brother has destroyed the amp sections of a Yamaha RX-797, Onkyo TX-8555, and a Carver TFM-15CB amplifier, by driving too low of an impedance. According to him, they sounded fine until they suddenly cut out.

Now hopefully someone will come along and illuminate us!

I have always been skeptical about those hard to drive claims. In many cases such claims are probably originated from exaggerated hearsays. If you do the math, it should not be a surprise to anyone that he is getting the kind of SPL he is getting with volume at -20.

That being said, I do believe if he were to remove the ATI amp, the 3312 on its own may have a little trouble bringing out the best of the 802D2 in the bass department.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm jealous!!! Very nice setup you have there! I was wondering if you could do me a favor? Can you play "Long Journey" by Sarah Jarosz for me, and let me know how it sounds on those babys? I live vicariously through you!

I'm listening to Sarah Jarosz's "Song Up in Her Head" album. I would vote this album as High Quality Recording. I like it a lot. "Long Journey" sounds great on the 802D2. But so is just about every song. Not my usual type of music, but fascinating. The quality is excellent - instruments and vocals. I like this album a lot. Thanks for telling me about it!

But yeah, "Long Journey" sounds awesome on the 802D2.