gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
That is perplexing considering the unit we inspected when we were judges at EHX Show revealed two Ecores on the bottom of the unit.

AVR-5805

I will let you know next week at CES for sure. Thanks for the photo.
 

plhart

Audioholic
I wouldn't be too concerned about the differences between these two Denon models, Gene. If the Euro/Japanese unit has a different model number it means (to Denon anyway) that they consider this non-US model more fitting to the desires/requirements of the Euro/Japanese market. Both of these markets are considered to be more conservative or traditional than the US customer who always wants the "newest". To Denon Japan the thinking may be that the Euro/Japanese customer for a $6000 receiver may value a perceived "higher performance" toroid for amplification over, for instance, switching for four rooms. In other words the feature set may be quite different indeed. It is, after all, a different model number.

Note also that there seems to be alot of room left in the chassis forward of the toroid. No airbox to cool the internal parts which may indicate that it was a heck of a lot more difficult for Denon to meet UL approval (US only). Another reason for the more compact-transformers-with-air box that the US is getting. At these kinds of prices (for a receiver) you will sometimes see these quite different model derivatives.

To get back to the subject of this thread, Chris K. from Audyssey told me during our interview that the US 5805 might not even come with a microphone. The thinking of Denon might perhaps be that they were weighing the possibillity of having the 5805 sold, installed and calibrated only by professionals (who would have an approved microphone on hand). The implication being that this unit's small production numbers be targeted exactly to those who could set-up this complex piece of gear most effectively. Obviously the odds for "pilot error" on this extremely versatile receiver goes way up if it is sold to untrained consumers versus professionals who have learned to use and install the gear. And no manufacturer wants to place his statement piece in that type of position.

Like you stated, Gene, we'll find out more at CES!
 
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plhart

Audioholic
Other Known Bits O' Info about Audyssey

Bits of the interview with Chris Kyriakakis not reported or perhaps needing more explanation:

a) Audyssey's research and work is done with grants through the National Science Foundation. When technologies are licensed to for-profit companies, it is the the right of those companies to announce the introduction of such technology in their products. Thus, we may or may not hear a hardware manufacturer announce a stand-alone product carrying some or all of the MultEQ technolgies on board at CES. At this point, before CES, it is simply an unknown.

b) We are seeking an interview/demonstration with other companies such as Lexicon who have also introduced set-up and/or room correction technologies.

c) Much of the work in these areas of set-up and room correction is in the intellectual property arena and in most cases companies like Audyssey are seeking patent or multiple patent protection. So please be patient with the extent to which we can report. We are telling Audioholics readers as much as we know.

d) The MultEQ technology has the capability of using 512 tap filters per channel but that doesn't mean all the taps will always be utilized. Chris Kyriakakis told me that at present the entire suite of MultEQ capabilities will usually scale to only about 1/4 the capacity of the the big TI chip within the Denon 5805. This has been done to allow space for all the other functions like DD and DTS on the same chip. So the scalability and thus the ultimate performance level of Audyssey technologies chosen by any given hardware company is up to the perogative of that company.

e) At the CES show, Texas Instruments /Audyssey wll be showcasing their PrevEQ trickle-down acoustic correction technology for HTIBs, desktop speakers and portable music players. PrevEQ features 32 tap filter capability so that it will fit on less expensive chips with less memory capability that are typically found onboard equipment in these price ranges.

PrevEQ focuses mainly on getting the subwoofer/satellite splice done correctly by boosting the subwoofer's higher frequencies (typically ~80-160Hz area) to actually blend with the satellites. At present almost every HTIB on the market has a hole in these frequency ranges.

I consider this part of the Audyssey technology to be a huge leap forward for Home Theater. This technology considerably narrows the perceivable (seamless) sound quality difference between full range speakers and subwoofer/satellites.

We'll let you know how well this scaled-down implementation of Audyssey's MultEQ succeeds as we uplink live from the show.
 
C

corentin

Audiophyte
Thanks for the info Plhart!I m looking forward to your CES coverage :cool:
This Audissey technology does indeed seem really impressive :eek: and i m eager for new details about their ground-breaking auto setup device when they re available that is.
About the differences between AVC-A1XV and AVR-5805, there are non except the tuner in AVR-5805(and maybe power supply?which would be a first for denon...).It s always been that way for previous models such as AVR-5803 and so forth, which always came with a tuner whereas the euro/jap version came without...The AVC-A1XV will feature 4 room capability exactly like the AVR-5805.And from what i saw on ebay, since a guy who had bought the unit in hong kong was already selling it, the microphone comes with it too.But in the end, we ll see when you review this wonderfull and dream-like receiver that is the denon, which differences we can expect between units!I hope you ll do a job as good as what you did with the yam Z9 :)
 

plhart

Audioholic
From Audioholics EHX show review.

Here's the picture I took of the 5805 at the EHX show in Long Beach from our Electronics Home Expo report. Clearly two laminated steel transformers.

http://www.audioholics.com/ehx/ehx2004/ehxCAday2.php

As far as the microphone being included on models other than US....yes, this jives with what Chris Kyriakakis said his understanding was also.

Lastly, the 5805 Chris had in the Immersive Audio Laboratory for our demo had the dual laminated steel core transformers. And his unit was supposedly a first article production unit.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
**********News Flash********

At CES we learned from Denon that the AVR-5805 actually has dual Ecore xformers (from the AVR-3805) and a single Torroid (from the AVR-5803) to power the 10 amps, along with 132,000uF of power supply capacitance. They also told us this amp is fully capable of driving loads down to 2.8 ohms without breaking a sweat. THX mandate is 3.4 ohms for certification. This receiver is a true powerhouse both on paper and in our brief listening demo's. Stay tuned for our comprehensive review!
 
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RLA

RLA

Audioholic Chief
At CES we learned from Denon that the AVR-5805 actually has dual Ecore xformers (from the AVR-3805) and a single Torroid (from the AVR-5803) to power the 10 amps, along with 132,000uF of power supply capacitance. They also told us this amp is fully capable of driving loads down to 2.8 ohms without breaking a sweat. THX mandate is 3.4 ohms for certification. This receiver is a true powerhouse both on paper and in our brief listening demo's. Stay tuned for our comprehensive review!"
__________________
pursuing the truth in audio...


Better hope your Av outlet and the outlet for your Honey's hair dryer aren't on the same circuit :D :D :D :D
 
krabapple

krabapple

Banned
Gene,

how about having audioholics run an article comparing and contrasting the different digital room correction technologies now available in receivers from, say, Yamaha vs Pioneer vs Harman-Kardon vs Denon (MultEQ)?

And if it could be translated into layman's terms, all the better :)

Digital room correction is a hugely important field in the audio hobby -- I for one can't get enough news about it...keep it coming!

-S.
 
D

dropbear

Audioholic Intern
well what can one say .... the end of the cable soothsayer may be coming to an end... :D ...for no longer will the 'cable' be discernable in what they believe to be perceived.

This is indeed an impressive benchmark for the industry as a whole and can only again get better with further refinement on the algorithym as time goes by.

Can't wait for an affordable stand-along product or for the product to trickle down to lower priced HT amplifiers for the rest of us :p
 
R

rolski

Audioholic Intern
gene said:
"I have never heard such a monumental improvement in the sound of an audio system as I heard with the Denon AVR-5805 with Audyssey’s MultEQ engaged."
Never tried the TAG McLaren Audio (now re-renamed as AudioLab) TMREQ Room-equalisation ?
Many people have, it's been available for a couple of years, and it's very very good indeed....
 
S

slaroussels

Audiophyte
I would be particularly interested as to how the room correction in the AVR-5805 compares to Tact Audio's TCS mk.II preamp, which has won a ton of awards for it's room correction.

http://www.tactlabs.com/

I would also be curious to know how it compares to the PDC-2.6P preamp from http://www.deqx.com/.

There are also people who swear by the freeware program DRC and prefer it over the Tact unit. (see the wiki at http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/index.php/Main_Page) This is the approach I'm trying at the moment.

Anyhow, I would be very excited to have the audioholics guys or other forum users do a comparison.
 
H

hunnybunny2383

Audioholic Intern
For The Past Few Years I Have Been Desprately Trying To Put Together A Audiophile Home Theater On A Soldiers Budget (which Aint That Much To Work With!!). Finally After Leaving The Military And Getting A Well Paying Job My Dream Was Within My Grasp. Last Week I Purchased The Denon 4806 And To My Surprise It Was Worth Every Penny. I Never Thought One Component Could Make Such A Large Difference And Could Not Believe What I Was Hearing. The Audessy Room Eq Is So Good That I Only Use That Mode With Anything I Listen To. It Eq,s The Room So Well My Wife Who Is In Iraq Right Now May Get Told That I Have Been Having An Affair With Norah Jones When She Comes Home (nosey Neighbors). The Bottom Line Is If You Have The Money And Problems With Your Room This Is The Receiver For You It Will Bring Out The Very Best In Your Speakers.
 
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Spiffyfast

Spiffyfast

Audioholic General
glad you enjoyed your purchase, its so much better to buy something with no shoppers remorse
 
H

hunnybunny2383

Audioholic Intern
I Think This Is The Only Purchase Ive Made That I Didnt Have Shoppers Remorse Its Great
 
6kids&adog

6kids&adog

Enthusiast
audyssey and PEQ

Someone please help me! I am trying to understand the Audyssey MultEQ and how it interacts with subwoofers. My basic question is this, "If you buy a receiver with MultEQ should you bother looking at subwoofers with built in Parametric EQ function?" Does the MultEQ make the PEQ unnecessary? Does the MultEQ allow taming of room induced peaks in base response down to 20 Hz?

I appreciate any help I can get.
 
QED

QED

Audioholic Intern
6kids&adog said:
Someone please help me! I am trying to understand the Audyssey MultEQ and how it interacts with subwoofers. My basic question is this, "If you buy a receiver with MultEQ should you bother looking at subwoofers with built in Parametric EQ function?" Does the MultEQ make the PEQ unnecessary? Does the MultEQ allow taming of room induced peaks in base response down to 20 Hz?
I have the same question...partly but not fully answered by the following post:

gene said:
...Yes is does equalize the subwoofers, independently infact! It will optimize the crossover setting, phase, splice between sub and center channel, 512 tap equalization for each sub in the system!
Also, the 4806 only has one LFE out as opposed to the 5895's 3 LFE outs...how would the 4806 take multiple subs into account?
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I would opt for the PEQ of your sub over what Audyssey is doing for bass. So far our experience is it either does nothing below around 100Hz (original firmware loaded in our 5805 review unit) or causes more problems than in solves (latest firmware currently undertest). I will report more on this after the New Year when our new theater rooms and up and running.

Also, the 4806 only has one LFE out as opposed to the 5895's 3 LFE outs...how would the 4806 take multiple subs into account?
Actually the 5805 has one dedicated LFE output and 2 independent sub outs which can be assigned as front pairs or front and back. The lower models use only 1 sub out which is a combination of LFE and all bass managed channels, like any conventional receiver, to find the splice between all speakers using bass management.
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
jaxvon said:
Reading that article made me want that new Denon reciever. Badly.
I understand that the Denon 5805 is a phenomenal piece of technology, but am I the only one here that thinks it is one of the ugliest receivers on the planet. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but come on; it's awful looking!

Regards
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
but am I the only one here that thinks it is one of the ugliest receivers on the planet.
And its comments like these why Cube speakers and so called high end audio thrive :rolleyes: Perhaps if Denon put a 2in metal faceplate on it with some side woodpanels and charged an extra 2K it would look nicer :D
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
gene said:
...its comments like these why Cube speakers and so called high end audio thrive :rolleyes: Perhaps if Denon put a 2in metal faceplate on it with some side woodpanels and charged an extra 2K it would look nicer :D
What's wrong with having equipment that looks nice? For me at least, it is not enough to have a fabulous performing piece of equipment if it is ugly as sin, because at the end of the day, I still have to live with it. I still have to look at the thing. I'm not talking exotic here.

It just strikes me as odd that not a single person has commented on it's, let's face it, less than normal proportions.

Guess I'm just not a true Audioholic. :confused:

Regards
 
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