Audio Power Cables / Cords - Do they really make a difference?

[gmichael]

Aerodynamic principles dictate that the F117's shape cannot fly. And in fact, it is aerodynamically unsound. Yet the Air Force flies them every day... Must be the cat ****, stack of coins, or other tricks you added with your ever-so-constructive commentary.

I was speaking rhetorically. The point is that technology today is yesterday's impossibilities. Thank you for your input.

What you were doing was trying to make a point with false information. Science does not state that the F117 can not fly. It does in fact state that it can fly, and that's why it does.

If science says that power cables don't make a difference, then they don't.
If science says that they do make a difference, then they do.

Thanks for your missinformation.

 

[jonnythan]

If that's your point, you picked a pretty awful example, because your statement that the F-117 "can't fly" according to aerodynamic principles is false and stupid.

And if that's your point, it's nonsensical and offtopic anyway. What are you trying to say? That modern cable technology makes it possible for a power cable to have a significant audible effect?

Let's assume for a second that it were possible for a power cable to provide a significantly improved sound over a standard cable. Do you really think it would cost thousands of dollars? Do you really think that there's no $1/foot or even $5/foot material to wrap around the copper that's about as good as this $100/foot stuff?

Not that any of the material even costs that much. The idea is ludicrous. These thousand-dollar power cables cost $15 or so to construct. There's nothing mind-blowing or super exotic in there.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Everyone who has actually done the comparisons agrees there is a difference. Here's the first three reviews I came to. If that's not enough to convince you to demo it for yourself, you won't be helped. Notice I didn't say "can't"!

POWER UP! - a comprehensive power cord review - Part 4

Product Review

nordost brahma power cord

Joe, the problem is that people are just looking for anything like a plausible theory of how a power cable of *any* quality, even 4 gauge, five-nines silver, could possibly affect the sound of a system through the speakers. You've heard the spiel - there's all that plain old solid-core Romex in your walls, tens of feet of it. How can six or eight feet of a special power cable have an audible effect? Especially considering that the power cable isn't in the signal path. Folks have trouble hearing the difference between pre-amps that have signal path differences that are at least 60db below the fundamentals, and often 80-100db below the fundamentals. The difference between power cables on the same component is below the threshold of measurability, which is certainly below the threshold of audibility.

So you're either arguing that there are measurements that could be done that we aren't smart enough to make yet, or that humans really can hear differences or artifacts more than 100db below the fundamental frequencies. I'd like to think I have a pretty open mind, Joe, but either one of these premises takes more proof than "just listen". I don't trust my ears that much; I've got to at least have a theory before I take a leap of wallet.

 

[jonnythan]

You've heard the spiel - there's all that plain old solid-core Romex in your walls, tens of feet of it. How can six or eight feet of a special power cable have an audible effect? .

But... the voltage regulators!

 

[Craigslist Joe]

Well, I tried...

We can talk about theory all week but the bottom line is that in at least one case Nordost cables improved the sound of a stereo system. Try it or retreat into your hobbit hole if you wish. It's no big deal to me. If you can't afford them, I understand. They are not for everyone. My intended audience are discerning audiophiles that can afford nice cables. I'm not sure there are many of those here. That's too bad. Have a good night.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I guarantee you'd change your tune if you tried it.

How can you guarantee this? Total nonsense.
But, people are certainly allowed to believe in nonsense. Audio doesn't have the silly market cornered.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Have you personally tried them? I have and they work. Talk about theory all you want. The reality is that I tried the Vishnu cable in my system with immediate results. I heard the difference and so did my wife. Now, having said that, we also agree that the lower-end Blue Heaven cable had less effect. So, please go out and try a Vishnu power cable before responding. FYI - the cable I was using previously was a Pangea 14 ga. Power cord. The point here is to not knock it until you've tried it.

More silliness. One doesn't have to try something to know.

You may have perceived something, along with your wife, but that means nothing. Perception is not necessarily a fact of reality. The human brain is very good at imagining things on its own. And, again, you certainly are allowed to believe in magic.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... But it does. It may be more current-carrying capacity or something you haven't looked at but it works where others don't. Period.

No, it is not 'period' by a long shot. Your brain is fooling you, period. And, that is a period, end of story.
Of course you nor your wife employ any bias controls in your evaluation, right?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Today I used a $15,000 gas chromatograph, a $5,000 oscilloscope, and a $200,000 50-TB storage array.

Every single one of them was powered by a standard power cord.

Just saying.

But, did you really listen to the audible differences between stock and high end cable?

 

[Porschetech]

Myself and my brother went to magnolia audio to audition a panny vt50. The store rep gave us demos with different setups, equipment, etc. what blew me away was when he used a $400 power cord and the picture was even better. I was like this is impossible!!! I was convinced trickery was at hand and I left there in awe. Like everyone else here..... how in the hell does an expensive power cord give huge improvements, when its just plain ol copper wiring used in the home?

 

[slipperybidness]

Myself and my brother went to magnolia audio to audition a panny vt50. The store rep gave us demos with different setups, equipment, etc. what blew me away was when he used a $400 power cord and the picture was even better. I was like this is impossible!!! I was convinced trickery was at hand and I left there in awe. Like everyone else here..... how in the hell does an expensive power cord give huge improvements, when its just plain ol copper wiring used in the home?

It's hard to believe. But, I have a better time believing a power cord MIGHT COULD give improved PQ over better SQ.

 

[jinjuku]

We can talk about theory all week but the bottom line is that in at least one case Nordost cables improved the sound of a stereo system. Try it or retreat into your hobbit hole if you wish. It's no big deal to me. If you can't afford them, I understand. They are not for everyone. My intended audience are discerning audiophiles that can afford nice cables. I'm not sure there are many of those here. That's too bad. Have a good night.

About the best empirical evidence I can 'maybe' come up with is bringing a Nordost Vinshu cable to the next Parts Express GTG in November (looking to be the 17th).

There the cable will face about 20 speaker designers. Not just guys that go out an purchase a set of speakers. But actually choose raw drivers, play around with X-over configurations, model different alignments etc...

If I can get that cable under Music Directs 30 day MBG I'll give it a whirl.

If ~20 speakers designers can't hear the 'night and day' difference I'll be happy to never visit this subject again where someone has said: But you never tried it.

 

[haraldo]

There may probably be a difference when you change from a cable to another very expensive one.....

The thing that happens then is that you take off the connector of the cable that's been connected for a long time, by reconnecting to a new cable you may also clean the connection area between the cable connector and the terminal, perhaps there may be some slight corrosion in the connectors, that you get rid of by changing to another cable with connectors where you don't have this and also reconnecting the cable cleans the terminal on your amp.

So the difference you hear is not related to the cable but the difference after cleaning up the connection points; dirt and corrosion may probably make an audible difference.... I believe some simple cleaning fluid and cleaning process is slightly cheaper than buying a pair of Nordost SuperDuperExtreme Reference Odin Master reference

 

[Craigslist Joe]

About the best empirical evidence I can 'maybe' come up with is bringing a Nordost Vinshu cable to the next Parts Express GTG in November (looking to be the 17th).

There the cable will face about 20 speaker designers. Not just guys that go out an purchase a set of speakers. But actually choose raw drivers, play around with X-over configurations, model different alignments etc...

If I can get that cable under Music Directs 30 day MBG I'll give it a whirl.

If ~20 speakers designers can't hear the 'night and day' difference I'll be happy to never visit this subject again where someone has said: But you never tried it.

If you like, I may be able to loan you a Nordost PC. In fact, I can loan you my Pangea cord too so you can test them back-to-back. I know for a fact that the sound is different. I just want someone to tell me WHY.

 

[jonnythan]

I just want someone to tell me WHY.

There is no known or proposed mechanism for any difference you may perceive or think you perceive. There is no known way to quantify or measure this difference that may or may not exist.

 

[gmichael]

To be fair, if I had enough cash to own a $100,000 or $250,000 system, I sure as h.ll wouldn't use the stock power cable (or speaker cables for that matter). I'd spend hundreds or thousands on replacements. If anyone ever asked me if they made a difference, I'd say, "They sure do." I might even convince myself that I hear a difference. If someone tried to tell me that I only think I hear a difference, I'd tell them to listen for themselves or STFU. I might even try a set of those wooden knobs. (naaaah....)

 

[jinjuku]

If you like, I may be able to loan you a Nordost PC. In fact, I can loan you my Pangea cord too so you can test them back-to-back. I know for a fact that the sound is different. I just want someone to tell me WHY.

Sure. This is the spirit of forums like AH. I would like to do a comparo of these two and a good stock cord.

I may still have some old HP IEC 15 printer power cords. Those where heavy duty.

Shoot me a PM when ever you are ready. I'll even take care of shipping both ways.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Myself and my brother went to magnolia audio to audition a panny vt50. The store rep gave us demos with different setups, equipment, etc. what blew me away was when he used a $400 power cord and the picture was even better. I was like this is impossible!!! I was convinced trickery was at hand and I left there in awe. Like everyone else here..... how in the hell does an expensive power cord give huge improvements, when its just plain ol copper wiring used in the home?

Simple. The power of suggestion, human bias, and uncontrolled presentation.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...then just move on to the next thing that may make a difference that you DO maintain in audible memory.

....

That is a pretty large audible difference for that to happen.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yes. One was. I share an office with a guy that listens to my system everyday. I changed my power cord without telling him. He made a comment to me about it sounding better without me prompting him! And that was coming right off the wall (surge protector).

Sorry, that doesn't cut the mustard.