Audible Difference Between Optical And Analog Cables?

[TLS Guy]

This thread is turning into a mile of misinformation. Vinyl does not play lower than a CD! The mastering engineer has to roll off the low end a little to prevent groove kissing.

Next the dynamic range possible with CD is about 20 db greater than with vinyl.
QUOTE]

You are absolutelly right, it was my typing error what I meant was relative dynamics, thanks for correction.

I'm not sure what you mean by "relative dynamics". I suppose you mean the dynamic range the mix and mastering engineers choose for the disc in question.

The dynamic range comes down in an analog system to maximum and minimal possible modulation and a realistic assessment of the noise floor.

In a digital system it is by the bit rate. In fact CD is perceived in terms of dynamic range than it actually has. There is a noise floor, as noise has to be added in the CD mastering process. The reason being that eventually in a low level signal you have a 100% quantitization error. In other words there becomes a finite choice between one and zero, so noise, known as the dither signal is added to prevent this, and the noise floor in hard numbers ends up being 90 to 95 db. However if you take a recoding 2 to four times the CD sampling rate (oversampling), convert to CD bit and sampling rate rate in the CD mastering process and add the requisite dither signal, the recording is actually perceived as having close to the dynamic range of the oversampled master.

So a well mastered CD can end up sounding as if it has 120 db dynamic range.

This process is poorly comprehended by most audio enthusiasts.

 

[TLS Guy]

Gee, I really don't remember where I read it, it was a few years ago, but what I do remember is that I read that quadrasonic records have signal frequencies that can reach to 50 khz aprox..

I really didn't give to much importance because no matter what they say there is no way I'm gonna change digital for analog.

Anyway I'll read the links you pointed, so thank you for it.

It is true that the LP has a theoretically higher frequency response rate than CD. The highest frequency on a CD is 20 kHz. However all pickup cartridges are going to have an HF resonance somewhere over the 20 kHz point, just like all hard dome tweeters do, and this will set the upper HF response.

In fact all the budget cartridges are going to have that resonance very close to 20 kHz. So close in fact it will require damping and cause some degree of HF roll off. And I have to say there are too many under damped ones around, that don't sound pleasing at all, in fact they have a definite edge to them. It is much better to roll them off.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I like listening analog. To me digital sounds cold and hollow.....

This is what the other poster is responding to and me.
You are listening to digital no matter which signal path you select. The digital signal is converted to analog in both cases for the speakers. and, I seriously doubt there are differences between the two paths other than signal volume differences that is not accounted for when comparing the two sources. And, just by listening uncontrolled for bias is unreliable to detect differences.

 

[jnelson88]

This is what the other poster is responding to and me.
You are listening to digital no matter which signal path you select. The digital signal is converted to analog in both cases for the speakers. and, I seriously doubt there are differences between the two paths other than signal volume differences that is not accounted for when comparing the two sources. And, just by listening uncontrolled for bias is unreliable to detect differences.

I have already explained this, read back over the other post. In truth this whole thread has been blown wayyy out proportion.

The way I listen to it is going to be the way I listen to it. Digital outs sound cold and hollow to me. I will not stop listening to music on the RCA outs until it the digital out sounds good to me, then I'm all ears. I have nothing more to say about it.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have already explained this, read back over the other post. In truth this whole thread has been blown wayyy out proportion.

The way I listen to it is going to be the way I listen to it. Digital outs sound cold and hollow to me. I will not stop listening to music on the RCA outs until it the digital out sounds good to me, then I'm all ears. I have nothing more to say about it.

If that is true, then either your Yamaha receiver has lousy DACS, or the analog outs of your CD roll off the high end. If there is truly a difference then either your receiver or CD player are out of spec. If all your gear was of a high standard there would be absolutely no audible difference on your two options.

So either you are imagining a difference, or you have a unit below par. There is no other way to make a rational argument for the difference.

 

[Seth=L]

I have already explained this, read back over the other post. In truth this whole thread has been blown wayyy out proportion.

The way I listen to it is going to be the way I listen to it. Digital outs sound cold and hollow to me. I will not stop listening to music on the RCA outs until it the digital out sounds good to me, then I'm all ears. I have nothing more to say about it.

The reason these things get blown out of proportion is because whether you hear a difference or not, many find it defies logic for their to be an audible difference. I respect that you think or may hear a difference (who knows, in your situation there could be a good reason for it to sound different). In my post I tried to lay out all cards so the OP could make a determination based on what they are dealt.

 

[Seth=L]

If all your gear was of a high standard there would be absolutely no audible difference on your two options.

Well a Vincent CD player may be of "high standard" but its measured operation performance may be dithered because the manufacturer purposely designed the CD player's DAC and or analog output to provide a tailored sound signature.

If I could produce a graph of sorts it would show that absolute junk DVD players and Pyle amplifiers have distortion of an audible order that is unfavorable to any critical listener, then as you spent a little more to get a decent value component such as a Sherwood receiver and low end Sony CD player you may find the specifications and measured performance to be better while still having some traces of distortions caused by a poor SNR or inadequate voltage output on line level outputs. You move into Yamaha, Onkyo, and like components with linear measured performance in most areas these components are extremely accurate. Continue to go up to Adcom, Rotel, the performance is similar, there's just more of it. Then keep going to Lexicon, Bryston and like brands, you are still getting excellent performance but find you are paying more for it than equally performing components from the last tier. Then jump into Goldmund, Vincent, Conrad Johnson. Several of these components, both tube and solid state may be tailored to have their own sound. These types of components may indeed sound different from lower cost but not because their performance is better, they are altered. Of course, they may sound great to many critical listeners and audiophiles with certain speaker types even if the final output is not linear.

 

[jamie2112]

Well a Vincent CD player may be of "high standard" but its measured operation performance may be dithered because the manufacturer purposely designed the CD player's DAC and or analog output to provide a tailored sound signature.

If I could produce a graph of sorts it would show that absolute junk DVD players and Pyle amplifiers have distortion of an audible order that is unfavorable to any critical listener, then as you spent a little more to get a decent value component such as a Sherwood receiver and low end Sony CD player you may find the specifications and measured performance to be better while still having some traces of distortions caused by a poor SNR or inadequate voltage output on line level outputs. You move into Yamaha, Onkyo, and like components with linear measured performance in most areas these components are extremely accurate. Continue to go up to Adcom, Rotel, the performance is similar, there's just more of it. Then keep going to Lexicon, Bryston and like brands, you are still getting excellent performance but find you are paying more for it than equally performing components from the last tier. Then jump into Goldmund, Vincent, Conrad Johnson. Several of these components, both tube and solid state may be tailored to have their own sound. These types of components may indeed sound different from lower cost but not because their performance is better, they are altered. Of course, they may sound great to many critical listeners and audiophiles with certain speaker types even if the final output is not linear.

Truth in audio right here...........well done Seth.

 

[Seth=L]

Truth in audio right here...........well done Seth.

I just wish I could explain it better, that's my first attempt at doing it in full. How did I do?

 

[jamie2112]

I just wish I could explain it better, that's my first attempt at doing it in full. How did I do?

Spot on really,in laymans terms that is the way I would have worded it I think.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well a Vincent CD player may be of "high standard" but its measured operation performance may be dithered because the manufacturer purposely designed the CD player's DAC and or analog output to provide a tailored sound signature.

If I could produce a graph of sorts it would show that absolute junk DVD players and Pyle amplifiers have distortion of an audible order that is unfavorable to any critical listener, then as you spent a little more to get a decent value component such as a Sherwood receiver and low end Sony CD player you may find the specifications and measured performance to be better while still having some traces of distortions caused by a poor SNR or inadequate voltage output on line level outputs. You move into Yamaha, Onkyo, and like components with linear measured performance in most areas these components are extremely accurate. Continue to go up to Adcom, Rotel, the performance is similar, there's just more of it. Then keep going to Lexicon, Bryston and like brands, you are still getting excellent performance but find you are paying more for it than equally performing components from the last tier. Then jump into Goldmund, Vincent, Conrad Johnson. Several of these components, both tube and solid state may be tailored to have their own sound. These types of components may indeed sound different from lower cost but not because their performance is better, they are altered. Of course, they may sound great to many critical listeners and audiophiles with certain speaker types even if the final output is not linear.

I phrased that a little clumsily, I should have said: - If all your gear is of a high standard there would be absolutely no audible difference on your two options.

I purposely avoided the issue of price, as there is some high priced high end gear that is actually of a low standard.

 

[Seth=L]

...there is some high priced high end gear that is actually of a low standard.

Wilson comes to mind.

 

[jnelson88]

I'm not going to quote any of previous post as it will just get too confusing. Now I never claimed to have "high end" gear. The fact of the matter is you guys have more years of experience and with more years comes more time to gather funds and learn what you need to know. I know one thing, I buy what sounds good to me, thats it what have now sounds good to me and probably will last years to come. I'm not going to get into debate with you guys on a forum over what sounds good to me and how that "defies logic". My logic is this, I put together what brands and settings that sound good, so that when I get home from a 15 month deployment (first time) from Iraq, I can catch all the movies that I was not able to see in Theaters or I add a little so that when I get back from my second deployment (4 months of 12 so far) I can start building my dedicated home theater, so I can get close to the real thing. Thats my logic. I don't expect special treatment, I don't expect pity or any thing else. I just want to watch a movie or listen to music on a system that sounds good, thats all. If you guys want to drive down,over or whatever. You guys are more than welcome to come to my house and take me to "Home audio school" teach me whats,what. If I want to get "High End" gear, I will, but right now my system does what it supposed to do. One thing I will take out of the WHOLE situation is I'm not going to try and help anymore people on here, I have gotten soo much help from people here I was just trying to return the favor. I appreciate all your help, everyone.

Thanks,
SPC(P) Joshua Nelson. U.S Army

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm not going to quote any of previous post as it will just get too confusing. Now I never claimed to have "high end" gear. The fact of the matter is you guys have more years of experience and with more years comes more time to gather funds and learn what you need to know. I know one thing, I buy what sounds good to me, thats it what have now sounds good to me and probably will last years to come. I'm not going to get into debate with you guys on a forum over what sounds good to me and how that "defies logic". My logic is this, I put together what brands and settings that sound good, so that when I get home from a 15 month deployment (first time) from Iraq, I can catch all the movies that I was not able to see in Theaters or I add a little so that when I get back from my second deployment (4 months of 12 so far) I can start building my dedicated home theater, so I can get close to the real thing. Thats my logic. I don't expect special treatment, I don't expect pity or any thing else. I just want to watch a movie or listen to music on a system that sounds good, thats all. If you guys want to drive down,over or whatever. You guys are more than welcome to come to my house and take me to "Home audio school" teach me whats,what. If I want to get "High End" gear, I will, but right now my system does what it supposed to do. One thing I will take out of the WHOLE situation is I'm not going to try and help anymore people on here, I have gotten soo much help from people here I was just trying to return the favor. I appreciate all your help, everyone.

Thanks,
SPC(P) Joshua Nelson. U.S Army

Many thanks for your dedicated service to this nation.

I pray you return home safe and sound from your current and future deployments and relax with your fine audio system.

Please don't hesitate to help others, you may well be the one with the right answer.

I think I can speak for the other posters in that we try to prevent this site from being a "subjective" audio site. There are enough of those already.

 

[jnelson88]

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. Taking a trip down memory lane TLS Guy the way you did your room (layout) minus the studio aspect, is the one I like. It was actually the first one I seen on the website while I was on my first deployment. I base most of the beginning stuff off you guys. I remember what sparked it, I went to see Iron Man the day it came out. Of course their was a bunch of middle school and high school kids as well a birthday party... Needless to say I wasn't to pleased. Then the audio and video was all messed up. From then on I started letting Google do the work, thats how I found audioholics.com, I knew only three things. Good sound, good video, no bose.

 

[jmhc]

I'm not sure what you mean by "relative dynamics" .

The difference in db between the weakest and the loudest point in the waveform.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The difference in db between the weakest and the loudest point in the waveform.

is called dynamic range

 

[jmhc]

is called dynamic range

I belive Dynamic range is the difference between noise and highest sound, what I mean with relative dynamics is about the loudest and weakest pointed in the recorded signal.

If I'm wrong please correct me again.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I belive Dynamic range is the difference between noise and highest sound, what I mean with relative dynamics is about the loudest and weakest pointed in the recorded signal.

If I'm wrong please correct me again.

Dynamic range, abbreviated DR or DNR,[1] is the ratio between the largest and smallest possible values of a changeable quantity, such as in sound and light.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range

 

[jmhc]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range

http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/dynamic-comparison-of-lps-vs-cds-part-4/dynamic-comparison-of-lps-vs-cds-part-4-page-2

In this page look for relative dynamics.