Ascend Acoustic Sierra OR Aperion Verus Grand

[Rowdy S13]

Well I think I have narrowed it down to these two options. That raises a few questions though. First I have to assume that most people would recommend upgrading the Sierra towers to the RAAL ribbon tweeter. I have to admit that I have not done enough research on the ribbon tweeter, but I know that it is recommended on these as well as the Salk Songs, and is also standard on the Philharmonic's. That tells me there must be a good reason to fork over the extra cash, but I don't exactly know what that reason is. That poses a problem because if I go with the Ascends with the RAAL tweeter, and the added shipping it is only $3 less than getting the Aperion Verus Grand towers AND the center. I don't mind spending the extra money, but is it REALLY worth it?

So here are the questions laid out.

Is it worth the money to upgrade to the RAAL tweeter?
Are the Ascend Sierra towers with the standard NrT dome tweeter comparable to the Aperion Verus Grand?
Which of these three should I spend my money on?

Realsticly there is very little worry with any of these. Worst case scenario I don't like them for whatever reason, I can always return them and get the other pair. I am just not sure that the Sierra's with the standard tweeter really compare, and even if so how much better is the RAAL tweeter? This is primarily for home theater use so a good center is a MUST for me. Both of these speaker lines have centers that are highly reviewed from what I can see. I really don't think I would be disappointed either way, but I want to make sure I spend my money wisely. Lets hear what you all think!



Thanks,
Sean

 

[j_garcia]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/79446-aperion-verus-grand-ascend-sierra-tower.html

 

[Rowdy S13]

Well there is always that! I actually started reading that at some point, but forgot about it. I will go through it and check back here if I still need something specific.


Thanks,
Sean

 

[j_garcia]

I figured it would be a good place to start

 

[billy p]

I know the member who started that thread is completely happy with his AGV & serioulsy considered the Sierra Towers....I don't think he would've being dissapointed in the end if he had chosen the Ascends.....much like myself prior to buying my speakers I carefully researched various forums and asked the usual question regarding these 2 and other ID brands....eventually I concluded the Ascends were for me....YMMV....of course.

Good luck in whatever you decide...Bill..

 

[Rowdy S13]

OK I have read through that whole thread, and one that was linked in there as well. There was a lot of good info, and it helped clear some things up. It also left me with a couple of questions. First off I am still wondering about the RAAL tweeter in general. I know its "better" but really in what way is that? I have seen some info saying that it has better off axis performance, and that it doesn't resonate as long after the note (faster response). I can understand those things, but how big of a difference is it? Also stepping up to the RAAL tweeter seems like it takes you into a new price class, and is it still a fair comparison to the VGT? Somebody had touched on that, but it wasn't really discussed.

More or less, I don't doubt that either speaker is great and I would be happy for years to come either way. I think comparing the Ascend with the NrT tweeter to the VGT is a fair comparison, and I think it would be difficult to pick a clear winner in that case. However can the same be said about the Ascend with the RAAL upgrade compared to the VGT? I am pretty sure that the Ascend with the RAAL would sound better, but $700+ better?! I also have to consider the added cost of the center channel, which is already higher on the Ascend but is close to $1500 with the RAAL upgrade! What I am getting at is it seems like the Ascend withe the RAAL tweeters is in a different league.

Lets hear some more opinions in here, I don't want to revive the older threads.



Thanks,
Sean

 

[j_garcia]

I am generally not a fan of ribbons, however I have heard some that do sound great. Knowing how Ascend works, even though I have not heard the Sierras, I would not doubt the RAAL is an improvement. The question is, if it is worth it to you?

When I auditioned the GR N2X with a BG ribbon, I was actually quite impressed with the ribbon; it was the first time I've heard one that sounded that smooth. It is effectively very similar to the speakers I own except with a ribbon tweeter and obviously correspondingly adjusted x-over. I'm pondering an upgrade

 

[lsiberian]

If you are looking to spend more money the RAALs are a good upgrade, but if you ask me they aren't a 700 dollar upgrade. If 700 dollars isn't a big deal to you then by all means go for it. If it is a big deal then the domes will suffice.

 

[billy p]

OK I have read through that whole thread, and one that was linked in there as well. There was a lot of good info, and it helped clear some things up. It also left me with a couple of questions. First off I am still wondering about the RAAL tweeter in general. I know its "better" but really in what way is that? I have seen some info saying that it has better off axis performance, and that it doesn't resonate as long after the note (faster response). I can understand those things, but how big of a difference is it? Also stepping up to the RAAL tweeter seems like it takes you into a new price class, and is it still a fair comparison to the VGT? Somebody had touched on that, but it wasn't really discussed.

More or less, I don't doubt that either speaker is great and I would be happy for years to come either way. I think comparing the Ascend with the NrT tweeter to the VGT is a fair comparison, and I think it would be difficult to pick a clear winner in that case. However can the same be said about the Ascend with the RAAL upgrade compared to the VGT? I am pretty sure that the Ascend with the RAAL would sound better, but $700+ better?! I also have to consider the added cost of the center channel, which is already higher on the Ascend but is close to $1500 with the RAAL upgrade! What I am getting at is it seems like the Ascend withe the RAAL tweeters is in a different league.

Lets hear some more opinions in here, I don't want to revive the older threads.



Thanks,
Sean

This question weighed heavily on my mind when I decided... I was going the Ascends route...but what sold me on the NrT was having auditioned the Sierra 1 NrT in home & they sounded fantastic...fast forward about 6 months after I purchased the Towers & STC....I'm returning my STC for the RAAL upgrade...curiousity just got the better of me...if its as good as advertised I'll let you know but IMHO the NrT domes are very very good...

 

[Rob from NJ]

While I've not listened to the Aperion Verus Grand, nor the Ascend Sierra Towers with NrT, I went through a similar decision last year when I purchased the Ascend Sierra Towers/Horizon with RAALs and spent many hours going over and over this. It really depends on your usage, likes, budget and personality.

My use is almost entirely home theater with very little music. I was very focused on easy-to-follow dialogue at low to mid-level volume. Dave from Ascend strongly recommend going with the Horizon center with RAAL ribbon upgrade. This ribbon tweeter is a very detailed and smooth (non-fatiguing) tweeter. It offers intelligibility at all listening levels. That combined with the dedicated mid driver of the Horizon and you have what is a really good center speaker. The other big advantage of this ribbon is that is has extremely wide and linear horizontal dispersion which adds to dialogue clarity and a natural sound both on and off axis. To date, the Horizon has performed exactly as Dave stated to me. I've not had to play this game of turning up the volume to hear dialogue and turning down the volume during action scenes of which I've experienced in the past with a Def. Tech monitors system (nothing against Def Tech). Bane's dialogue in The Dark Knight Rises is clear as day, much clearer than in the movie theater that I went to to see the movie over the summer. Every word was audible and understandable behind the mask.

Dave also recommended going with the standard towers (NrT domes) for the left and right speakers. He stated the overall timbre remains the same when panning from left to right and the soundstage is seamless. So you have an owner of a speaker company recommending a solution where $700 additional revenue is forgone for what he believes is the right solution for a customer.

I decided against his recommendation and went with all RAALs across the front. Dina laughed at my decision due to the fact that I didn't go with Dave's recommendation. While listening to speakers during my search I feel in love with planars, however, didn't want to deal with some of the reported headaches such as very fickle placement issues and additional investments to drive less efficient speakers (i.e. Magnepans). I felt the RAAL ribbon would get me closest to the benefits of planars without some of the issues I read about and experienced. I also envisioned I would eventually spend more time listening to music (has not happened to date) and figured a good system for music would also be advantageous for movies as well (good sound is good sound), Yes, i was concerned about the dynamic range of the Sierra towers with RAALs for movies, however, I've not found this to be an issue at all. I have a Denon 4311CI driving my 5.1 system (no external Amp) and have not had any issues cranking up my volume during movies when I want to. There's been no distortion at higher levels.

As for my budget, I was ok spending the extra dough on the RAALs and as for personality, I believe I would second guess myself over and over if I didn't go with the RAALs due to my interest in planars.

There are a few folks on the Ascend Community forum that have upgraded from NrT to RAAL, as well as, some who own both. One person in particular has RAALs across the front and Sierra NrT towers in the back. I think he's experimented with the difference in sound when it comes to music. You may want to check out the Ascend forum for further impressions about the differences.

Even though I've not experienced the Aperions, nor the NrT domes, hope this helps a little.

Regards,
Robert

 

[billy p]

^^^^Yup...Dave expressed the same thing for my listening habbits....unfortunately, now I must pay the extra for returning my Horizon so it can be fitted with the RAAL....I am simply looking for what you just discribed with Bane's voice. In retospect, I shoulda listened to him.

 

[Rowdy S13]

As soon as I think I have made a decision... Without having heard each speaker, I think that they are going to be extremely similar. I think with the RAAL tweeter the Ascends may start to pull away, but like I said they would also pull away cost wise. So assuming choosing between the towers (with the NrT tweeters) is splitting hairs, it comes down to the center. The problem with the centers is that the Ascend is already $250 more, then you have to add in shipping, AND the RAAL tweeter. That puts it close to double the cost of the Aperion center ($1,448 vs $799). I have heard very good things about both, but is the Ascend worth almost twice as much!? I think making the decision on the center is the way to go at this point. I am also considering what each brand offers in the way of surrounds, but I think I am OK either way in that regard. I will say that Aperion offers more options, so they get the nod on that, but its not a deal breaker either way.

I am somewhat considering getting both centers to compare (as was recommended by someone in another thread), but I am not sure I can make call on that alone. Because each of these centers are so big I would have a hard time placing them in the first place, let alone if I have two to try and switch between. I also would have no way to instantly switch between them, but that I think I can deal with. I just think that both of these speakers are so close in performance that it would come down to personal preference. I think both will be such a big upgrade from my current speakers that either way I go I would be more than happy. This is a tough call for sure!



Sean

 

[billy p]

I'll pay devil's advocate here regarding the free shipping..is it really free or worked into the price? Let's face it how many people who buy ID wind up toally unhappy with their purchase and return it? Your idea of getting both Centers is a good one and was recommended by First Reflection in the other thread. This will help you decide what sound you prefer and if you prefer the Aperion you'll only be out the return shipping of the STC...this will alleviate any doubt down the road.

I just want to be clear...I'm not trying to sell you on the Ascends being an owner of their products...I'm just skeptical when I hear term free or no obligation because in life.." nothing is for free"....JMO.

 

[Rowdy S13]

I fully agree with you, they cover the cost some how for sure. Again though, taking shipping cost into the equation (included or additional) it just moves the Ascends into a higher price class. The shipping alone doesn't add all that much, but in the case of the center it makes it ~$300 more than the Aperion. It breaks down like this

Ascend

Towers
Standard $1,994.00
Standard with RAAL $2,694.00
Piano gloss black $2,094.00
Piano gloss black with RAAL $2,794.00

Center
Standard $1,098.00
Standard with RAAL $1,448.00
Piano gloss black $1,123.00 (estimated)
Piano gloss black with RAAL $1,473.00 (estimated)


Aperion

Towers $1998.00
Center $799.00

To be honest, I am not considering the piano gloss finish on the Ascends, but to be fair the Aperion come standard in that finish already. So now to total up the differences.


Towers
Standard $4.00 cheaper
Standard with RAAL $696.00 MORE
Piano gloss black $96.00 MORE
Piano gloss black with RAAL $796.00 MORE

Center
Standard $299.00 MORE
Standard with RAAL $649.00 MORE
Piano gloss black $324.00 MORE (estimated)
Piano gloss black with RAAL $674.00 MORE (estimated)

So that means I could be spending anywhere from $295.00 to $1,345.00 more for standard finish, or $420.00 to $1,470.00 for piano gloss black finish for the entire LCR system shipped. I would think I could get away with what was recommended to both of you which is the standard NrT tweeter in the towers, and the RAAL tweeter in the center, and that means spending an extra $645 for just the LCR's. However, I think I would do exactly what you guys did and go with the RAAL tweeters across the board and that means spending and additional $1,345 which could almost buy me a second SVS SB13-Ultra I think the more I look at the cost (and the sheer size of the center), the more I am leaning to the Aperions. I may still change my mind a few dozen times before I buy, but I think they will be such a huge jump up in performance over my current set up that I will be happy for a long time to come with them. The same could be said about the Ascends, but I would HAVE to get the RAAL tweeters to not be second guessing the difference constantly, and that moves it so far up in price its hard for me to justify them.



Sean

 

[Harrison20]

All I can say is I bought the Verus center and towers at the end of December just before the price hike and I am totally happy with them. Love the piano black finish. But your right the center is a monster. You can mount it to the wall though.

 

[lsiberian]

I just want to be clear...I'm not trying to sell you on the Ascends being an owner of their products...I'm just skeptical when I hear term free or no obligation because in life.." nothing is for free"....JMO.

There is always a price to pay. But price doesn't always equate quality in speakers either. Neither do nice drivers and tweeters. Far more is about the enclosure and crossover than the driver. Even a 10 dollar cone sounds great in the proper box with the proper crossover.

 

[billy p]

Maybe to some people but for some others, maybe not so much but I do understand your point. I stated eariler, I considered all the usual names that gets tossed around and AVS....I have NO reservations that I made the wrong choice. In the end...I like the Ascend business model...IMHO it was beyond reproach with all the specs, data and infromation being laided out for all to see & read...I've read your comments regarding your opinion on the Ascends but I don't share your opinion.

Re: Bill

 

[Rowdy S13]

I am not (and would not) say anything negative about the performance of the Ascends. They are an absolutely beautiful speaker that, from everything I can see, perform just as good or better than they look. They test fantastic, and I haven't seen any negative reviews about them. For me the cost is just too prohibitive I think. If I was to go with the Ascends, I would HAVE to have the RAAL, and that just moves them to too high of a price point for me. If I was to get them with the NrT tweeters across the board, I could justify the small amount more money. As I said before I think the Ascend with the NrT tweeter is so close in comparison to the VGT that its a complete toss up. What pushes me over to the Aperions is the overall look of the speakers, and my wife liking the slimmer center speaker. They actually aren't THAT different in size, but the Aperion looks less bulky. I liked the standard piano gloss black finish (the wife actually doesn't like that), and I like the overall shape of the cabinets. I think pairing them up with a pair of SVS SB13-Ultras will make for a killer sounding, and great looking system.


Sean

 

[billy p]

Sorry but my comments weren't a reflection of anything you said...I should have replied using the "quotes option' as my comments were for the post just above mine.

Again...I apologize...if you thought it was a barb or anything of that nature...as it wasn't intended that way...


Ps: When you get the new speakers please share some pictures with us.... as I do like the look of the AGV Towers & I know you'll get years of enjoyment out of them...Bill...

 

[NewHTbuyer]

Do you already have the SB13 subs? If you are planning to order from SVS, you could look at their new Ultra line. I listened to the Ultra towers and the Versus Grand towers at RMAf and they are right in the same class. I just recently bought a pair of Ultra towers, so take my recommendation for what it is worth. Just wanted to point out another good option in your price range.