are high $ CD BD players worth it?.

[DS-21]

Yeah, you're right, when differences are obvious a DBT isn't stressful, but who cares about differences that are so obvious?

When differences are present, a DBT isn't stressful. It's a fun game, for those with the occasional inclination to nerdiness (see, e.g., your humble narrator) When they are absent, it often is.

I don't need a DBT for the obvious, but long-term satisfaction is often determined by subtleties.

Long term satisfaction with audio electronics usually has little to do with how they "sound," and everything to do with other factors.

And different does not mean better.

Nobody, of course, claimed otherwise.

What was claimed is that absent difference in a given variable, there is no basis to form preference along that variable.

***The 707 weighed a ton. It also wouldn't load a CD fresh out of a factory-sealed box. Very annoying.

Now there's a great example of a non-sonic reason to prefer (or in this case, to not prefer) an electronic part!

A couple of years later I tested it against a Audio Research DAC-1-20 and with matched levels I remember I picked out the AR as "better" some majority of a small number of times. I was convinced enough to buy the DAC-1-20, which was expensive for me at the time.

Wasn't that the DAC that couldn't drive a paper bag? Like .7V maximum output?

Low maximum output levels is a likely culprit there.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Wasn't that the DAC that couldn't drive a paper bag? Like .7V maximum output?

Low maximum output levels is a likely culprit there.

A likely culprit for what? A low output would cause a preference? Why? Lack of input overload? Anyway, even Robert Harley got 1.74v out of the DAC-1-20. Did you just read that and misquote it?

I never had a problem with either of the pre-amps I owned at the time.

 

[DS-21]

A likely culprit for what? A low output would cause a preference? Why?

Clipping.

Lack of input overload? Anyway, even Robert Harley got 1.74v out of the DAC-1-20. Did you just read that and misquote it?

No, actually I just misremembered. Sorry about that.

I see no reason why it would sound different, except suggestion from whatever that deaf idiot soothsayer Harley wrote.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Clipping. No, actually I just misremembered. Sorry about that.

I see no reason why it would sound different, except suggestion from whatever that deaf idiot soothsayer Harley wrote.

Clipping of what? Low output of a line-level device only avoids clipping of the input of the next component. I think you're tripping over your own confused arguments. I recommend moving on.

As for your last remark, I made a decision to buy the DAC-1-20 before the Stereophile report was printed. I was very happy with it for years. I think we agree about Harley, though.

 

[GranteedEV]

Wow, 2 pages of a thread about CD and BD players, dedicated to scotch, wine, mad dog 20/20 and weed. Definately a humorous break from the hours of research on A/V equipment. Lol.

Welcome to AH

 

[Rickster71]

I know people that think there are differences worth paying for in cigars, whiskey, and wine, and I can't appreciate any of them. I think those folks are wasting their money. Perhaps we both are, but we're having fun while we're wasting it.

That's just.... There's big money to be made in subjectivity.
It's the reason why they sell lingerie and the hot school girl outfits in XXL.
That, and to fit Adam and Alex.

 

[DS-21]

Clipping of what? Low output of a line-level device only avoids clipping of the input of the next component. I think you're tripping over your own confused arguments. I recommend moving on.

I'm not tripping over anything. Certainly, there can be gain-structure issues with a component that puts out less voltage.

And if there was a difference, I would expect it boils down to something in the Audio Research box being out of spec. Many of these so-called high-end firms have appalling quality control. Especially the ones that put so much emphasis on tubes.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm not tripping over anything. Certainly, there can be gain-structure issues with a component that puts out less voltage.

And if there was a difference, I would expect it boils down to something in the Audio Research box being out of spec. Many of these so-called high-end firms have appalling quality control. Especially the ones that put so much emphasis on tubes.

1.74v versus 2v? I think you've lost your way. And the DAC-1-20 doesn't have tubes.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I also posted 3 published articles for him and a summary of them.

Yes, thank you for supporting my case, but I couldn't find any of those articles for reading. They are also old enough to be of questionable relevance.

 

[DS-21]

1.74v versus 2v? I think you've lost your way.

No, I'm really just saying the differences are more likely than not nonexistent, unless the ARC box was broken. Which is certainly a possibility.

And the DAC-1-20 doesn't have tubes.

I never said it did. I didn't know one way or the other, and because CD drives and DACs are utterly uninteresting sonic commodity parts, I didn't care, either.

Do you think my characterization of Audio Research as a "so called 'high end' firm" that "puts so much emphasis on tubes" is incorrect?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Do you think my characterization of Audio Research as a "so called 'high end' firm" that "puts so much emphasis on tubes" is incorrect?

More like incomplete. I haven't paid any attention to ARC's tube products. I've never understood the tube strategy, any more than I do the vinyl strategy. Their solid state amps and DACs used to be very interesting in product quality and measurements, though I have to say I haven't paid any attention to ARC since about 1998. I wouldn't necessarily recommend any of their current products. I was simply disagreeing with your presumption that because ARC also developed tube products their solid state products were probably flawed.

I do find it interesting that as I've replaced my electronics from the 1997-1999 era I'm able to do so with products that are decidedly down-market compared to the products they're replacing, and yet have better performance. I admit to missing some mechanical and ergo refinement, but it is nice to get what seems like SOTA performance without spending high-end dollars.

 

[GranteedEV]

I do find it interesting that as I've replaced my electronics from the 1997-1999 era I'm able to do so with products that are decidedly down-market compared to the products they're replacing, and yet have better performance. I admit to missing some mechanical and ergo refinement, but it is nice to get what seems like SOTA performance without spending high-end dollars.

The difference between internet research and magazine "research"

 

[Irvrobinson]

The difference between internet research and magazine "research"

Actually, I think it's due to improvements in the technologies and the products.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have two Denon high-end players (each one $2K).

I hardly ever use them anymore.

These days my music files are on a server, and I play music on any of my Denon AVRs via network.

But I also recommend getting the Panasonic BD210 and bitstream to your AVR.