are high $ CD BD players worth it?.

[djreef]

Come now - there are big differences in wine. Saying there aren't would be like saying that Coke and Sprite taste the same. Don't get me wrong...I can't comment on the subtle nuances of apricot in something. I just know that I like some and don't like others.

Since I started drinking MD 20/20 everything else tastes like grape juice.
So ya, I'm feelin ya.


DJ

 

[Adam]

Nothing like Mad Dog to get the night started.

I still remember the one and only time that I drank some of that stuff. It was the only time in undergrad that I can remember thinking that I was going to hurl. Granted, I was hammered before I ever had any...

 

[Adam]

...MD 20/20 vs. Mad Dog

Ummm...you do know that those are the same thing, right?

Wait, look who I'm asking...

 

[adwilk]

Post deleted. I don't want to play anymore...

Give me my ball back.

 

[Adam]

Give me my ball back.

The left or right one?

I ask because I don't know if you want me to pull Rick or Doug away.

 

[adwilk]

Neither

 

[Irvrobinson]

Does anybody else think this sounds offensively racist?

Are you serious? You can't be, but if you are please send me a PM and explain yourself.

 

[Alex2507]

Are you serious? You can't be, but if you are please send me a PM and explain yourself.

He's not serious. He's stoned and likely dunk.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

He's not serious. He's stoned and likely dunk.

Is #2 drinking MD & Scotch with a weed chaser again?

 

[3db]

Eeeee...you're right. You just gave me the creeps!

I thought that it looked really cool before. You just saved me a ton of cash.

OMG Adam!!! Just show it who's boss!!

 

[adwilk]

Are you serious? You can't be, but if you are please send me a PM and explain yourself.

Haha.. Definitely not serious.

Disclaimer- I was not stoned or drunk. That probably explains why it wasn't funny.

 

[Rickster71]

Does anybody else think this sounds offensively racist?

I don't know about that...
Though I'm still PO'd that they call the busiest shopping day of the year, "Black Friday"
Just sayin.

 

[djreef]

He's not serious. He's stoned and likely dunk.

Sorry, I abruptly dropped out of the conversation. I just woke up in the middle of fairway 8 on the golf course near my house.

I was wondering when Monkey Boy was going to get into the fray. Knew it was only a matter of time.

DJ

 

[Jerod81]

Wow, 2 pages of a thread about CD and BD players, dedicated to scotch, wine, mad dog 20/20 and weed. Definately a humorous break from the hours of research on A/V equipment. Lol.
.......... Now, on to my question that I think I have figured out from previous comments from this thread, but would like some confirmation. I only listen to/watch standard forms of media, i.e.- DVD, BD, standard cd's etc... Right now I use my PS3 for all blu ray viewing. I am setting up a HT system in my basement, and am wondering if a PS3 is still the only BD player I need, or would it be worth it to get a higher end Player such as the Oppo 93? My HT system will be ran off of a Dennon 4311ci reciever.

P.S.- There is a bar here in denver that sells 40's of Mad Dog (The 1Up), might have to go and do some personal research on the subject. I will be sure to post my results.

 

[DS-21]

When compared to the average Sony Panasonic Denon CD blueray players...are the high dollar ones (musical fidelity, rotel, oppo) really worth it?

If so what makes the difference..isn't the output digital...all 1s and 0s are the same are they not?

One difference is the formats they can play. An Oppo can play everything except for HD-DVD: SACD, DVD-A, Blu-Ray, DVD, and so on.

Another difference is build quality, but perceived and actual. For example, an Oppo 95 just looks "higher end" than an Oppo 93. To some people that matters, to others it doesn't. (I'd rather have the $500 one than the $1000 one.)

A third difference is appearance.

A fourth difference is user interface.

Sure, sonically they're all the same, assuming they can all play the format you want to play. Playing a DVD-A, a $500 Oppo is going to sound infinitely better than a $10,000 Sony ES player. Playing an SACD, a $60 Samsung DVD player ca. 2005 will be leaps and bounds superior to a Meridian 508.24. Playing a CD, they're all perfectly competent.

But one doesn't buy one of these things based on sound. One buys it on overall perception, which includes the things I mentioned above, and other things.

Frankly, I think DBTs are used because we don't know any other way to tell if humans are really able to differentiate between experiences. My feeling was that I found the tests stressful and felt I was guessing most of the time, hence my conclusion that the results were of low value.

Your conclusion does not flow from the information you presented.

When differences are clearly present, then a DBT is much less stressful. Because you're not guessing, but rather identifying different-sounding things. But when things sound the same, then yes, it's a stressful guessing game.

Don't believe me? Try a DBT between Player A, and Player A bumped up in level 0.5dB. You'll easily and quickly get 10/10, and feel good about yourself doing it.

How about posting references? I've never seen one, and many other posters have claimed no such test results exist.

Here's one: ABX Double Blind Tests: CD Players & DA Converters

Come now - there are big differences in wine.

And people routinely distinguish one from another in a DBT!

Remember that being able to distinguish is the threshold question, not preference. Preference along a given variable (such as sound quality) cannot be measured unless it is first known that there is an actual difference that can lead one to prefer one over the other.

Where oneophiles often trip up is in trying to rank order and things like that. That kind of preference listing is quite different from saying "is this sample a second sip of that sample, or the other one?" Even a rank amateur like me can and has gotten that kind of wine tasting consistently right.

 

[djreef]

I would like to say I hear the difference between the Denon I recently sold and the new Oppo that replaced it. Without a side by side, though I could never be certain.

DJ

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... I only listen to/watch standard forms of media, i.e.- DVD, BD, standard cd's etc... Right now I use my PS3 for all blu ray viewing. I am setting up a HT system in my basement, and am wondering if a PS3 is still the only BD player I need, or would it be worth it to get a higher end Player such as the Oppo 93? My HT system will be ran off of a Dennon 4311ci reciever.
...

If that PS-3 meets your needs for flexibility and versatility, I would say you don't need another player especially if another component will be processing and decoding the audio signals.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Frankly, I think DBTs are used because we don't know any other way to tell if humans are really able to differentiate between experiences.

Is that why most, if not all fields of scientific research uses some sort of DBT testing, or that it is needed to minimize human biases that interfere with decision making beyond the issues one is looking for.

My feeling was that I found the tests stressful and felt I was guessing most of the time, hence my conclusion that the results were of low value.

Or, the real reason was that the differences if any were at the threshold of human detection capability and answers are difficult to get to at that point.

I also don't see why anyone else would be substantially better at it than I was.

If you check the research that the Harman team, Dr. Floyd Toole and Sean Olive
Audio Musings by Sean Olive

you will find answers

I suppose it is possible that long-term DBTs might yield more value, because you could test listener fatigue, which is a common complaint with sub-par equipment.

There is one paper on long term listening under DBT conditions of amps, it doesn't help one bit.
Memory is very short for small differences, hence the need for quick swapping and short length of signals so you can remember better.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
Here's one: ABX Double Blind Tests: CD Players & DA Converters
...

I also posted 3 published articles for him and a summary of them.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Your conclusion does not flow from the information you presented.

When differences are clearly present, then a DBT is much less stressful. Because you're not guessing, but rather identifying different-sounding things. But when things sound the same, then yes, it's a stressful guessing game.

Don't believe me? Try a DBT between Player A, and Player A bumped up in level 0.5dB. You'll easily and quickly get 10/10, and feel good about yourself doing it.

Here's one: ABX Double Blind Tests: CD Players & DA Converters

And people routinely distinguish one from another in a DBT!

Remember that being able to distinguish is the threshold question, not preference. Preference along a given variable (such as sound quality) cannot be measured unless it is first known that there is an actual difference that can lead one to prefer one over the other.

Yeah, you're right, when differences are obvious a DBT isn't stressful, but who cares about differences that are so obvious? I don't need a DBT for the obvious, but long-term satisfaction is often determined by subtleties. And different does not mean better. Audio systems are not drug trials.

Interesting that the reference you cited used a Sony 707ESD. I used to own one of those units. I bought it unheard because all CDs players mostly measured alike anyway, and the Sony was SOTA technology at the time. The 707 weighed a ton. It also wouldn't load a CD fresh out of a factory-sealed box. Very annoying. The variable output sounded worse than the fixed output with a pre-amp. A couple of years later I tested it against a Audio Research DAC-1-20 and with matched levels I remember I picked out the AR as "better" some majority of a small number of times. I was convinced enough to buy the DAC-1-20, which was expensive for me at the time.

I want to thank you, DS-21, for making me think of that comparison, because it made me remember the long-forgotten technique I invented for matching levels between the DACs. Using duplicate CDs I picked a track with a centered human voice, connected one player to the left channel only and one to the right and adjusted the balance control on a pre-amp until the voice was centered. (I used the pre-amp from my second system; it had a balance control.) It sounded funny, but I found I didn't have to synchronize the two CD transports either.If the sound was centered the levels were pretty well matched. I suppose duplicate test tone CDs would have worked better, but I didn't have a duplication method available at the time.