DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

gonk · Aug 27, 2009

Chu Gai said:
In fact, there have been numerous raffles conducted for the benefit of that orphanage not to mention 'dear friends' that no one knows of. Those too need to somehow properly be vetted and I don't think MLS has any intention whatsoever of addressing those.

I've thought about this, too, and I've seen hints of how I expect him to deal with this in several statements that he's already made. I'm going to make a prediction: any attempt to press him on the fate of those other raffles or call for reliable third-party validation that funds were properly passed along will be met with stubborn refusal and an assertion that even suggesting problems exist with those is a baseless insult to him as an individual. He will point out that he admitted fault in the two raffles (or technically four, since there were three for Derek) and will insist that he didn't admit to fault in others because no fault exists. It is not a subject that I ever expect him to speak plainly or openly about.

Chu Gai · Aug 27, 2009

You could be right Gonk and it would be quite the height of hubris. May just make for a book title, The Audacity of Hoping for Restitution. It's just that if you tried to pull it off when people were looking, what makes anyone think that there was integrity and honesty when people weren't looking or couldn't verify?

cschang · Aug 27, 2009

I have been relatively quiet about the raffle issue. The entire raffle situation at AV123 involving MLS sickens me....taking advantage of others misfortunes for his own personal gain.

I don't know much about the raffle for Derek, but I do know much about the raffle in the name of David Fabrikant's father.

Lets remember, that the particular raffle was never asked for, and it was to be a donation to Sloan/Kettering in the name of Fabrikants. Many of the Fabrikants family members participated in the raffle. IMO, MLS knew that he could gain from the raffle.

In early 2008, when I was told that no donation to Sloan/Kettering was made by MLS or AV123, I personally looked into the matter to verify that it was true. I called Sloan/Kettering to verify, and read the thread at AV123 to see how many tickets were bought, and at that time....no donation had been made. I believe this was Jan/Feb of 2008, a good four of five months after the raffle ended.

I then contacted one of MLS's biggest fans/friend to let him know, also knowing that he would get back to MLS with my accusation...and he did. Many excuses came back, mostly because he was too busy or had other family issues. BTW, it takes two minutes to make a donation by credit card. After pushing the fan/friend, and knowing that he was growing suspicious, MLS made a donation, I didn't learn for a couple of weeks that it was only a part of what was suppose to be donated.

Here we are, almost two years later from when the raffle started, and still, the full amount has not been donated.

Personally, I am sure many of the raffles that were held on that AV123 were scams, and I think MLS will continue business as usual. The censorship at AV123 and TCA helps MLS bury the issues....and they know that.

dylancash · Aug 27, 2009

Along with Derek's and David's we also know he didn't fund Hugh's raffle either. Something tells me there is a LOT more to this story.

gonk · Aug 28, 2009

dylancash said:
Along with Derek's and David's we also know he didn't fund Hugh's raffle either. Something tells me there is a LOT more to this story.

I've wondered about that raffle for a long while now - why it isn't on his list of raffles that are owed money. Did it get partially or fully paid at some point? I don't think it did, but it's not widely discussed.

It brings up another curiosity: all of these raffles were meant to either assist or support people who were described as his friends. He knows Fabrikant from the industry, he has traveled a bit with Hugh, and talked a great deal about his fondness for Derek and his family. It really bothers me that these same people he volunteered to help out via raffles (Derek with medical expenses, Fabrikant and Hugh with donations to important charities due to the death - or illness that led to death - of a loved one) are the ones he ended up (getting caught) stealing from. After all, it's bad enough to steal from a charity in the first place, but to do it in a way that hurts a personal friend? That really adds insult to injury.

Chu Gai · Aug 28, 2009

Information below was tabulated by themonk and can be found here. Please note, that not all raffles were initiated by MLS. Also note that there appear to be some minor errors in the tabulation For example in the raffle to aid the orphans of Russia on 5-20-07, MLS said he'd do a one for one match. In the off chance this particular thread were to somehow disappear, I'm posting the entire list that themonk tabulated.

Note: If it's in bold, I added it. If you have other raffles that aren't on the list, please indicate the details and I'll update this thread.

2004

A. Rocket Package Number 1
Reason - Gracie's Ballet Company
Started - October 18, 2004
35 dollars per ticket x 150 = $5,250.00
Winner - CyCole

2005

B. RS850 based ULTRA System (2 pairs RS850's, 1 RSC200 and 2 ULW10s)
Reason - A Friend In Need (Brucer)
Started - January 17 2005
50 dollars per ticket x 200 = $10,000.00
Winner - James M. Crane (jcrane)

C. LIVE AUCTION for Tsunami Relief - 4 pairs of RS750 Signatures
Reason - The Jimmy Fund and The Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
Started - January 26, 2005
Each auction started at $600.00 - (Craigsub donated $1500.00 on first auction)
1. Pivoman - $1000.00 (Rosewood)
2. Jed M - $900.00 donated (Jed M asked for and got a ULW-10 and 200.00 cable credit with the rest being donated
3. nothing - $909.09 (Rosewood)
4. Chris C - $1100.00 (Ebony)

D. 1 pair RSC1000's, 1 pair RS250's and a RSC 200
Reason - The Jimmy Fund and The Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
Started - May 21, 2005
50 dollars per ticket X 150 = $7,500.00
Winner - Eugene C. (etcarroll)

E. 20 ULW-10’s in White Shadow Maple
Reason - The Jimmy Fund and The Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
Started - May 21, 2005
10 dollars per ticket X 50 X 20 Raffles = $10,000.00
Winner(s):
1. CRAIG R. of Colorado Springs, CO (craiglan)
2. Joshua K. of Jersey City, NJ
3. Jack B. of Tuscon, AZ
4. Brian S. of Seattle, WA
5. Conor C. of Birmingham, AL
6. John R. of Cincinnati, OH (oneblue)
7. James M. of Ponte Vedra Beach, FL (JamieM)
8. Dale H. of Jackson, TN
9. Alan P. of Boise, ID
10. Unable to locate

F. Special Edition Onix H34 Tube Integrated Amplifier and a set of Special Edition Onix Reference 1.5 Piano Rosewood
Reason - American Red Cross - Hurricane Katrina Relief
Started - August 31, 2005
50 dollars per ticket X 200 = $10,000.00
Winner - Christopher M

G. Epiphany Audio 12-12 Line-Source Loudspeaker System (Value = $15,000.00)
Reason - American Red Cross - Hurricane Katrina Relief
Started - September 2, 2005
100 dollars per ticket X 300 = $30,000.00
Winner - Dallas M

H. 1 pair RS850 Speakers, 1 pair RSS300 speakers, 1 RSC200 Center Speaker, UFW-10 x 2 and Emotiva Emotiva LMC-1 and a LPA-1
Reason - Ballet Nouveau Colorado Charity
Started - October 24, 2005
50 dollars per ticket X 200 = $10,000.00
Winner - Thomas N (Thomas Nichols)

2006

I. Winners Choice: Package 1 - Two sets of RS 760's Front and Rear and One RSC 200 Center or Package 2 - One set RS 550 MKII Front, One RSC 200 Center, One set RSS 300 Rear and UFW-12 Subwoofer with R-DES
Reason - Leukemia & Lymphoma Society
Started - January 25, 2006
50 dollars per ticket X 100 = $5,000.00
Winner - Brandon Noeldner (weirdzen)

J. 1 Raffle turned into 2 Raffles - A set of RS 450's X 2 (Initial Thread, Raffle Thread and Winner Thread)
Reason - Annual Tennis Event for Breast Cancer - Curtis Chang
Started - October 17, 2006
10 dollars per ticket X 100 X 2 = $2,000.00
Winner(s):
Brian Harris (Timothy B)
Amanda (mandigrace)

K. 2 pairs of RS450's (1 set donated by Mark L. Schifter and 1 set donated by Craig Chase aka Craigsub), One RSC200 Center (donated by Craig Chase aka Craigsub), 1 x-sub (Kurt aka kia303 - raffle organizer)
Reason - Fallen Officer's Memorial
Started - November 30, 2006
50 dollars per ticket X 200 = $4,000.00
Winner - Nick Artieri (The Nick)

2007

L. 1 pair of X-LS's and 1 X-Sub
Reason – Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS)
Started - February 23, 2007
10 dollars per ticket X 100 = $1,000.00 ($1,100.00 Raised)
Winner - (Trekker)

1. 1 pair of Strata Mini's in Rosewood, 1 pair of REF 1LE's and one REF 100 Center Channel
Reason – The Children of Khabarovsk, Russia
Started - May 17, 2007
25 dollars per ticket X 160 = $10,000.00
Winner - Thomas Schmidt (TomS)

2. Sub Mersive Sub (Courtesy of Mark Seaton) including Mr. Seaton set-up and calibration
Reason – The Children of Khabarovsk, Russia
Started - May 20, 2007
25 dollars per ticket X 200 = $5,000.00
Winner - Sean Dempsey (Loophead)

3. Pair of Strata Mini’s (Courtesy of Hugh Nguyen)
Reason – Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation
Date – May 22, 2007
25 dollars per ticket X 200 = $5,000.00
Winner - Thomas Choong (ThomasC)

4. EMOTIVA package of the RSP-1 (pre-amp) and the 400-watt brute - The RPA-1 (Courtesy of Dan Laufman at Emotiva)
Reason - The Children in Khabarovsk, Russia
Date – June 11, 2007
35 dollars per ticket X 100 tickets = $3,500.00
Winner - Richard Vitzthum (rav)

5. EMOTIVA package of the RSP-1 (pre-amp) and the 400-watt brute - The RPA-1 (Courtesy of Dan Laufman at Emotiva)
Reason - The Children in Khabarovsk, Russia
Date – June 12, 2007
35 dollars per ticket X 100 = $3,500.00
Winner - Randall Harris (TechFan)

6. Titan XL Subwoofer - Inlaid Cherry Finish(Courtesy of Mike Dzurko at ACI)
Reason - The Children in Khabarovsk, Russia
Date – June 16, 2007
30 dollars per ticket X 100 tickets = $3,500.00
Winner – Unknown (Brad Judy)

7. PS Audio Quintet (Courtesy of Paul McGowan at PS Audio)
Reason – The Children in Khabarovsk, Russia
Date – June 23, 2007
15 dollars per ticket X 100 = $1,500.00
Winner - Eugene Carroll (etcarroll)

8. 1 pair of Mini Strata's or Rocket HT Package #3 (1 pair RS450s, 1 pair RSS300 and 1 RSC200) - Winner's Choice! (Courtesy of Craigsub and wife)
Reason - The Mrs. R Daneel Leukemia Cure (donated to the Triathlon Team)
Date - March 6, 2007 (although the date doesn't fall in sequence I'm going with it for now)
20 dollars per ticket X 100 = $2,000.00 (Actual donations totaled $3055.00)
Winner - (Jonathon Janusz) - Mini Strata's were chosen

9. One pair RS1K, Two pair RSS300 (One pair donated by the winner of raffle #10 DanNay), a RSC 200 in Rosewood, and a MFW-15 (donated by a mysterious forum member)
Reasons
- The Sloan Kettering Cancer Center for David Fabrikant Family(50%)
- The Children in Khabarovsk, Russia (50%)
Date – July 4, 2007
50 dollars per ticket X 150 = $7,500.00
Winner - Scott (Skeeter99)

10. One pair RS760, One pair RSS300 and a RSC 200 in Rosewood
Reasons
- The Sloan Kettering Cancer Center for David Fabrikant Family (50%)
- The Children in Khabarovsk, Russia (50%)
Date – July 4, 2007
35 dollars per ticket X 150 = $5,250.00
Winner – (DanNay)

11. Mark’s Sub Mersive including setup by Mark Schifter and Mark Seaton
Reason - The Children in Khabarovsk, Russia
Date – July 30, 2007
25 dollars per ticket X 200 - $5,000.00
Winner – (Horseman)

12. 1 pair RS1000’s, 1 RSC 200 Big Foot, 1 pair RS450’s (for the rear channels), 1 pair RS250’s (for the side axis channels) and 2 UFW-12’s with installation by Mark Schifter and Mark Seaton
Reason - Derek Wayland Family (Kaeleigh "Bemi" Wayland)
Date August 28, 2007
25 dollars per ticket X 500 = $12,500.00
Winner – New2AVS

13. 1 pair RS1000’s, 1 RSC 200 Big Foot, 1 pair RS450’s (for the rear channels), 1 pair RS250’s (for the side axis channels) and 2 UFW-12’s with installation by Mark Schifter and Mark Seaton (Courtesy of
New2AVS)
Reason (re-raffle) - Derek Wayland Family (Kaeleigh "Bemi" Wayland)
Date October 18, 2007
25 dollars per ticket X 500 = $12,500.00
Winner – TBD

14. 1 pair LS-6 demo set from the 2007 RMAF
1 set of Complete Acoustic Room Treatment Set: 2 Bass Trap Tables and 4 Veneered Framed Acoustic Absorption Panels.
(The room treatment set is courtesy of Santiago and Cali Team)
Reason - "Our Bemi"
Date October 22, 2007
50 dollars per ticket X 200 = $10,000.00
Winner - Craig Chase (Craigsub)

15. The LS4 Raffle for Ballet Nouveau Company
Reason
- Ballet Nouveau Colorado Charity
Date – December 12, 2007
50 dollars per ticket X 150 = $7,500.00
Winner - TBD

16. The LS4 Raffle for The Children's Hospital (Denver)
Reason
- The Children's Hospital (Denver)
Date – TBA
50 dollars per ticket X 150 = $7,500.00
Winner - TBD

2008

17. An MFW-15 Raffle For Our Dear Friend Hugh and The Angelwish Foundation
Reason - Hughs best friend Thanh battling liver cancer
Date - January 31, 2008
35 dollars per ticket X 100 = $3,500.00 X 3 raffles = $10,500.00
2.50 for every ticket sold will be donated Mark and Lynn to The Angelwish Foundation = 750.00
Winner 1 - TBD
Winner 2 - TBD
Winner 3 - TBD

18. MLS raffled off his own, personal #04694/11111 Michael Schumacher (limited edition) Omega Speedmaster Racing (World Championship) watch.
Reason - To benefit Derek Wayland Family
Date - 10-24-08
200 tickets at $20 dollars = $4,000
Winner - mfig

Grand Total
$217,564.09

I find it amazing how one community with good leadership can be productive in such a short time and make a significant impact such as this ... MLS I salute you Sir on a job well done. I will update and amend periodically. By the way this is for anyone as curious as I am

Warmest Regards,

TheMonk(Dano)

Chu Gai · Aug 28, 2009

cschang said:
I have been relatively quiet about the raffle issue. The entire raffle situation at AV123 involving MLS sickens me....taking advantage of others misfortunes for his own personal gain.

I don't know much about the raffle for Derek, but I do know much about the raffle in the name of David Fabrikant's father.

Lets remember, that the particular raffle was never asked for, and it was to be a donation to Sloan/Kettering in the name of Fabrikants. Many of the Fabrikants family members participated in the raffle. IMO, MLS knew that he could gain from the raffle.

In early 2008, when I was told that no donation to Sloan/Kettering was made by MLS or AV123, I personally looked into the matter to verify that it was true. I called Sloan/Kettering to verify, and read the thread at AV123 to see how many tickets were bought, and at that time....no donation had been made. I believe this was Jan/Feb of 2008, a good four of five months after the raffle ended.

I then contacted one of MLS's biggest fans/friend to let him know, also knowing that he would get back to MLS with my accusation...and he did. Many excuses came back, mostly because he was too busy or had other family issues. BTW, it takes two minutes to make a donation by credit card. After pushing the fan/friend, and knowing that he was growing suspicious, MLS made a donation, I didn't learn for a couple of weeks that it was only a part of what was suppose to be donated.

Here we are, almost two years later from when the raffle started, and still, the full amount has not been donated.

Personally, I am sure many of the raffles that were held on that AV123 were scams, and I think MLS will continue business as usual. The censorship at AV123 and TCA helps MLS bury the issues....and they know that.

If you can say, how did it come about that information stating that no donations were made to Sloan-Kettering when everyone thought they were? Do you know how much was sent to SK by MLS?

dylancash · Aug 28, 2009

gonk said:
I've wondered about that raffle for a long while now - why it isn't on his list of raffles that are owed money. Did it get partially or fully paid at some point? I don't think it did, but it's not widely discussed.

It brings up another curiosity: all of these raffles were meant to either assist or support people who were described as his friends. He knows Fabrikant from the industry, he has traveled a bit with Hugh, and talked a great deal about his fondness for Derek and his family. It really bothers me that these same people he volunteered to help out via raffles (Derek with medical expenses, Fabrikant and Hugh with donations to important charities due to the death - or illness that led to death - of a loved one) are the ones he ended up (getting caught) stealing from. After all, it's bad enough to steal from a charity in the first place, but to do it in a way that hurts a personal friend? That really adds insult to injury.

Unless something has changed, Hugh's friend never got his money. He is now dead so not much can be done about it now, except to make sure Mark doesn't get to keep it. I believe Hugh's raffle was more than one too. Also, it has always been my understanding the two raffles Mark refers to as underfunding are Derek's and Hugh's. I don't think he has ever acknowledged Fabricant's because that is the one he made a profit on and thinks that is ok, along with some of his sycophant lackies (an embarrassment to humanity). Here is a post from Hugh back in February. To my knowledge he still hasn't seen a dime.

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10908&postcount=103

dylancash · Aug 28, 2009

For context, this is the reason Mark gave for stealing/helping his friend:

I would call Hugh my most special and dear friend as he has been there for ME as well. I have suffered through some “stuff” over these last few years with family and such – and EVERY TIME he has been there to lend his hand and his wisdom to me no matter the day or night… You see, we are all human…

I have taken to calling Hugh --- Hugh Man --- because he is just that… Human – and Compassionate and Loving… and Tender… I love this man…

Hugh’s best friend in the world has severe Liver Cancer (amongst other pressing medical matters) --- although Hugh and his wife Kim are very quiet and modest people, they are amassing tremendous financial support to help his dear and lifelong friend Thanh (please forgive me Hugh… I cannot properly write his Vietnamese name – apologies)… I want to help as well… May I ask all of you to help me too…

Ah Mark. That is so nice of you. Too bad you didn't send any money, but at least you come off looking good publicly. What a rat.

gonk · Aug 28, 2009

I had been under the impression that the two raffles he acknowledged stealing from were Derek's and Hugh's, as well. (Even the number "two" there is a misnomer, as there were something like three raffles just for Derek plus two for Hugh mentioned in your link.) If there had been no money paid out in February 2009, I doubt that has changed any since then - there are some other debts that go back farther and remain unpaid (including Derek's raffles, the refund for the OP in this thread, and at least one $6,000 refund on RSL II's). However, in the PM I received from MLS earlier this week he specifically mentioned owing money to Sloan Kettering, which was the charity being donated to in Fabrikant's raffle. I think he also made reference to owing money to "SK" in a post at AV123 recently. That led me to believe that he recognized that the payment sent previously to Sloan Kettering was not enough - and that the suggestion that the rest of the money was used to pay for the prize was bogus.

dylancash · Aug 28, 2009

gonk said:
I had been under the impression that the two raffles he acknowledged stealing from were Derek's and Hugh's, as well. (Even the number "two" there is a misnomer, as there were something like three raffles just for Derek plus two for Hugh mentioned in your link.) If there had been no money paid out in February 2009, I doubt that has changed any since then - there are some other debts that go back farther and remain unpaid (including Derek's raffles, the refund for the OP in this thread, and at least one $6,000 refund on RSL II's). However, in the PM I received from MLS earlier this week he specifically mentioned owing money to Sloan Kettering, which was the charity being donated to in Fabrikant's raffle. I think he also made reference to owing money to "SK" in a post at AV123 recently. That led me to believe that he recognized that the payment sent previously to Sloan Kettering was not enough - and that the suggestion that the rest of the money was used to pay for the prize was bogus.

So it seems like he acknowledges it only after it has already been publicized. I remember he held fast to it being only 2 raffles, yet now since somebody else came forward it is now 3. These type of "confessions" lead a reasonable person to believe there are many more that he hasn't admitted to. Like I said, what a rat.

gonk · Aug 28, 2009

Oh, no, it's still two - he's just changed the two by swapping out Hugh's raffle(s) for Fabrikant's raffle. Hey, you can do stuff like that when you limit discussions of the topic to a forum that you control, assuming you are willing to delete any posts that might be inconvenient to your current version of the facts.

Or maybe I should say you can try to do stuff like that. At some point, the facts tend to creep up on you and bite you right in the @ss.

cschang · Aug 28, 2009

Chu Gai said:
If you can say, how did it come about that information stating that no donations were made to Sloan-Kettering when everyone thought they were? Do you know how much was sent to SK by MLS?

Sure, it was a conversation I had with David Fabrikant.

That particular raffle raised $12750, half to go to Sloan/Kettering, the other half to the Russian orphanage. S/K has received $3000.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=615868

edit: I noticed Monk listed two raffles for the S/K and the orphanage....my mistake.

Chu Gai · Aug 28, 2009

cschang said:
Sure, it was a conversation I had with David Fabrikant.

That particular raffle raised $12750, half to go to Sloan/Kettering, the other half to the Russian orphanage. S/K has received $3000.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=615868

edit: I noticed Monk listed two raffles for the S/K and the orphanage....my mistake.

Most people wouldn't have even thought to contact the organization. He must've smelled something fishy. Maybe Russkie caviar on someone's breath

randyb · Aug 28, 2009

cschang said:
I have been relatively quiet about the raffle issue. The entire raffle situation at AV123 involving MLS sickens me....taking advantage of others misfortunes for his own personal gain.

I don't know much about the raffle for Derek, but I do know much about the raffle in the name of David Fabrikant's father.

Lets remember, that the particular raffle was never asked for, and it was to be a donation to Sloan/Kettering in the name of Fabrikants. Many of the Fabrikants family members participated in the raffle. IMO, MLS knew that he could gain from the raffle.

In early 2008, when I was told that no donation to Sloan/Kettering was made by MLS or AV123, I personally looked into the matter to verify that it was true. I called Sloan/Kettering to verify, and read the thread at AV123 to see how many tickets were bought, and at that time....no donation had been made. I believe this was Jan/Feb of 2008, a good four of five months after the raffle ended.

I then contacted one of MLS's biggest fans/friend to let him know, also knowing that he would get back to MLS with my accusation...and he did. Many excuses came back, mostly because he was too busy or had other family issues. BTW, it takes two minutes to make a donation by credit card. After pushing the fan/friend, and knowing that he was growing suspicious, MLS made a donation, I didn't learn for a couple of weeks that it was only a part of what was suppose to be donated.

Here we are, almost two years later from when the raffle started, and still, the full amount has not been donated.

Personally, I am sure many of the raffles that were held on that AV123 were scams, and I think MLS will continue business as usual. The censorship at AV123 and TCA helps MLS bury the issues....and they know that.

Curtis knows that I felt these raffles had stink written all over them from the beginning. I contributed to his first raffle (edit after looking at Chu's list, I think it was the second raffle) because I thought it was on the up and up initially and because I thought it was a good cause. I quickly grew suspicious when they announced the participants and the winner. I had contributed but I wasn't shown as contributing. I got this quick message from him that he was checking into this. He came back and said, oh you were included. Now, I didn't care about winning but something didn't smell right (I had very few posts on that forum and wasn't a gushing fan). I mentioned in an email to Curtis that I thought it was suspicious that there were so many raffles. That coupled with the fact that to me the forum developed all the earmarks of a cult. If you read his posts and the way he posts, it appears very cultish to me and always has. The hugs and kisses bear hug thing is bizarre.

I think that he has somewhat opened the forums because he desperately needs cash and with the forum down, there goes the cult. He seems to be getting involved in AVS again so it may be cult time again. Of course, all this is just my opinion.

cschang · Aug 28, 2009

Chu Gai said:
Most people wouldn't have even thought to contact the organization. He must've smelled something fishy. Maybe Russkie caviar on someone's breath

Well, because of his father's ordeal and being treated at S/K over the years, he knows many people there. Add that with the raffle being in his family's name, and with family members participating in the raffle, then I would say he felt obligated to follow-up. I know I would.

dylancash · Aug 28, 2009

Agree 100% about the cult like atmosphere over there. Some of them seem normal, but a lot of those guys just worship at the altar of Mark. Look how bad he treats people, including his best friends, and they still worship this guy. If they would only judge a person by his actions and not his words they would understand, but as it stands that is a seriously brainwashed group over there. I don't want to name names but a few of those guys I really think are mentally unbalanced regarding the level of vitriol they defend Mark with. Strange, sad, and kind of entertaining.

The amazing thing is, I bet if you polled the followers over at AV123 a strong majority would say that Mark is also a victim of all of this. That is the card he plays. The victim, the martyr. I read a couple days ago a couple guys told a new buyer not to sell his current speakers until AV123 has the new "napkin sketch of the week" in stock and Mark made some type of reply that it was good advice, it still hurt his feelings coming from certain people. Give me a break. Poor Mark.

Edit: here is the post. Just read the rest of the page (6 posts). Unbelievable his response.

http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?p=735031#post735031

Chu Gai · Aug 28, 2009

His style of posting...all the politenss, the hugs, the friend, the best, the humbly is a long time trademark and style of MLS. You can see it if you search his name, Mark Schifter, on Google Groups. The cult thing for sure. The cult though doesn't just exist at AV123. It also exists wherever AV123 tend to congregate. For instance, look at the title of this thread...

MFW-15 w/ new July 2009 amps absolutely NO AV123 or MLS bashing/negativity!!

It's the only thread on that site where MLS largely posts outside of his own area. Yet a few questioning souls have ventured to take issue with sundry statements he's made concerning ground loops and production quality.

In many of the raffles, MLS has not made it clear or even addressed if there are deductions from the raffle like whether it was the list price or their price. But judging from the relative inactivity of the forum (perhaps that's because there are no new products introduced or shipping) there is a decided chill in the air preceding the Colorado winters.

randyb · Aug 28, 2009

I really have to wonder about his vendors as well. Also, the people who have done design work for him. If he steals from raffles and friends, what about the people who do business with him in the normal course of business? My opinion would be that it is a "robbing Peter to pay Paul" thing.

Also, I haven't bought anything from them in a long time (and not much at that) but recently I have been getting emails about special "bargains". How long can it go on?

Chu Gai · Aug 28, 2009

I remember reading about your name being somehow off the list, Randy. Depending upon how closely you followed things, other people in other raffles have made the same comment. Now, as that was the second raffle listed, when I was reviewing the whole raffle thing, I found the first raffle raised an eyebrow. That was the one where the winner joined after the fact and made something like 3 or 4 posts later. Now, I know odds are odds, but still...

Something that would be interesting, would be to cross-check the various items that MLS raffled or sold from his basement when his home was undergoing repairs against various items that were initially listed. It'd also be interesting if one had the ability to go back in time to craigslist and even ebay to see if any of those were sold.

Investigating reporting. Gotta love it.

DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

gonk

Full Audioholic

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai

cschang

Audioholic Chief

dylancash

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