Best Home Theater under 3K

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spike99

Junior Audioholic
Hello to all, new to this forum.

Looking for some suggestions when building my Home theater.

Basically I have a 13x14 room that I'm setting up my home theater. My receiver is a Denon 4308 and I mostly watch blue ray movies.


Honestly, I'm a bit clueless what speaker I should get but I want to keep it all under 3K.

I have my eye on Polk Audio and leaning towards the following speakers
2 Front speakers RTi A7 $1,100
Center speakers CSi A6 $450
2 Rear speaker FXi A6 $560
Sub DSW PRO 600 $680
Total $2,790


I would appreciate if anyone has any thoughts about my selection and if you have any other good suggestions, I would like to hear them.

Thanks in advance.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I got two sets of suggestions:

a)
2 x Epik Legend subwoofer - $900
2 x Emotiva ERD-1 surround - 289
3 x Ascend 340 fronts - 568 + 30 + 298 + 20
3 x Ascend Pedestal stands - 100 + 30 + ???

b) Aperion holiday sale O_O Intimus 6T system

http://www.aperionaudio.com/catalog/Holiday-Promotions,76.aspx

and then get a second bravus 12D.

Either option will blow the polks out of the water.

-Also consider option A with EMP Tek Impressions, JTR, and Aperion Verus Grand fronts. Stick with the Emotiva surrounds, they're that good.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I like the idea of Ascend speakers, but JTRs would be wasted in that room. I would steer away from the Aperions due to their weak sub, although I think the speakers would be OK. The Epik subwoofers would do fine but for the money I would rather go for some Outlaw Audio LFM Pluses or LFM EXs, or some Hsu VTF2 or VTF3s, if you have room for them. They would have more punch and deeper bass, and you could use them as speaker stands since they have the correct height. For the surrounds I would go with Ascend CBM170s, I prefer the sound of direct radiating speakers over bipoles or dipoles. A system like that would sound terrific and come in under budget.

Take some of the money saved and look into room treatments if you haven't already, it would be a very good idea for a dedicated theater. If you have nothing but hard, bare surfaces for walls, it could really diminish the sound due to reflectivity. Look into acoustic dampening. Trust me, it would be better to have good speakers in a treated room rather than perfect speakers in a acoustically reflective environment. You should view your room as a part of the speaker system.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Yeah, that sounded worse then I meant to say. I don't think the Bravus is a bad sub, what I meant was it doesn't present as great as performance value as other internet direct subwoofer vendors do. I should have said it isn't nearly as powerful as some other $1k subs out on the market instead of saying it was weak.
 
S

spike99

Junior Audioholic
Thanks, I will start looking into your suggestions. I noticed that suggestions are mixing speakers from different companies... But in general I would prefer all speakers from same company.

Thanks for suggestions, I will start checking
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Check out the Command Performance Home Theater System as shown on this link:
http://www.psbspeakers.com/Image-home-theater-systems from PSB if you have dealer near by.

Audition as many speaker systems as you can possibly can.

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy
and loose sounding? Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too
pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not
revealing or were they smooththat made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2
channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then a movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioning the center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, pick a difficult source like an announcer that mumbles alot. If you can understand what the mumbling announcer is saying, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first
instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can
mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendations based on your likes/dislikes. The specality stores are better setup acousticaly then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning. Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when audtioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume
levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder
speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you
would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using
them most of the time.
 
S

spike99

Junior Audioholic
Yes, I suppose it makes sense that I audition for speaker at stores but at the same time, I would like to know ahead of time which speakers I should be asking about.

On a side note, I'm trying to replace my Bose Acoustimass 10 Series. but my understanding is that these sattellite speakers are not really good compared to what I'm looking for. I've had them for over 3 years now.

My current setup... I have my TV on my BDI cabinet.. I probably should have a TV mount on wall so that TV is not sitting on cabinet, but my idea was to have center speaker in speaker drawer which fits a center speaker with a maximun height of 8".

I started to check Aperion Intimus 6T, and seems good since its on sale... but found that the center speaker is 8.5" in height. If I place center speaker on top of my bdi, It will cover part of my TV. I may place my TV in a TV mount in the future... but don't know. So, for now, I would probably prefer a center speaker that it 8" or below so I can place in my BDI speaker drawer.
 
R

RMRM

Audioholic Intern
I would like to say thats real good advice from 3db. I would like to add IMO keep the speakers the same. I had Axiom's with some Paradigm surrounds replaced the Paradigms with Axiom surrounds. It just brought the system together so IMO stay with the same speaker. Have a good one:D
 
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InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
Hello to all, new to this forum.

Looking for some suggestions when building my Home theater.

Basically I have a 13x14 room that I'm setting up my home theater. My receiver is a Denon 4308 and I mostly watch blue ray movies.


Honestly, I'm a bit clueless what speaker I should get but I want to keep it all under 3K.

I have my eye on Polk Audio and leaning towards the following speakers
2 Front speakers RTi A7 $1,100
Center speakers CSi A6 $450
2 Rear speaker FXi A6 $560
Sub DSW PRO 600 $680
Total $2,790


I would appreciate if anyone has any thoughts about my selection and if you have any other good suggestions, I would like to hear them.

Thanks in advance.
IMO, your layout is over under.... Over on your mains & under on subwoofer(s). But for your room, your budget ceiling is appropriate to really get something fantastic, if you buy smart!

Something like this would lay out aesthetically well with the mains & rears being on-wall....

3 - Jamo D500 LCR (THX Select on-wall in gloss piano black) http://www.jamo.com/eu-en/products/d-500-lcr-description/ . MSRP $349/ea x3 = $1050

2 - Jamo D500 SUR (THX Select Matching Dipole) http://www.jamo.com/eu-en/products/d-500-sur-description/ . MSRP $699/pair

2 - Phase Technology PC SUB-WL10 (300 RMS/900 watt peak 10" powered front firing servo w/ 10" down firing radiator) http://www.phasetech.com/products.html?product_id=WL-10 $1538/ea x 2 = $3076.

Total MSRP = $4825
Total from a dealer who does strong volume in these two brands = (barely) under $3k. Trust me, I know this from experience :)

This system would destroy your room (in a good way), and allow for you to have a very clean look by keeping all of the speakers, save for the subs, off the floor. All of the speakers are available in gloss piano black as well. The subs are wireless (uncompressed up to 50') & outperform the similarly priced Velodyne Optimum series, which I will also vouch for from expereince. Although, the Velodynes are also excellent & could be inserted into this system for very close to the same price if you wanted to do so.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah, that sounded worse then I meant to say. I don't think the Bravus is a bad sub, what I meant was it doesn't present as great as performance value as other internet direct subwoofer vendors do. I should have said it isn't nearly as powerful as some other $1k subs out on the market instead of saying it was weak.
Dude, it's basically rich man's Epik Legend. You're getting it basically for free in that package (which pretty much always retails for $3700...those aren't exactly light savings).
 
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InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
IMO, your layout is over under.... Over on your mains & under on subwoofer(s). But for your room, your budget ceiling is appropriate to really get something fantastic, if you buy smart!

Something like this would lay out aesthetically well with the mains & rears being on-wall....

3 - Jamo D500 LCR (THX Select on-wall in gloss piano black) http://www.jamo.com/eu-en/products/d-500-lcr-description/ . MSRP $349/ea x3 = $1050

2 - Jamo D500 SUR (THX Select Matching Dipole) http://www.jamo.com/eu-en/products/d-500-sur-description/ . MSRP $699/pair

2 - Phase Technology PC SUB-WL10 (300 RMS/900 watt peak 10" powered front firing servo w/ 10" down firing radiator) http://www.phasetech.com/products.html?product_id=WL-10 $1538/ea x 2 = $3076.

Total MSRP = $4825
Total from a dealer who does strong volume in these two brands = (barely) under $3k. Trust me, I know this from experience :)

This system would destroy your room (in a good way), and allow for you to have a very clean look by keeping all of the speakers, save for the subs, off the floor. All of the speakers are available in gloss piano black as well. The subs are wireless (uncompressed up to 50') & outperform the similarly priced Velodyne Optimum series, which I will also vouch for from expereince. Although, the Velodynes are also excellent & could be inserted into this system for very close to the same price if you wanted to do so.
After doing some math on your room, you could do two of the PC SUB WL-8 & get away with it. The savings would be marginal, though (maybe $200ish). A 13'x14' room does not need HUGE drivers to produce deep bass effect/feeling. Too Much = Too Much. I would not recommend doing any bigger than a 10" if you go with 2 subs.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Too Much = Too Much. I would not recommend doing any bigger than a 10" if you go with 2 subs.
That's just silly. How is it too much?. In any properly equalized system, bigger drivers (in proper enclosures) will dig deeper and have far better dynamic capability, far less harmonic distortion for a cleaner sound. It's just a matter of ease with which the surface area can reproduce bass.

Now in a very small room I wouldn't immediately go for a bass reflex sub(wheras i'd lean that way in a larger room), but that doesn't mean I wouldn't go for a 12" or 15" sub utilized properly. I wouldn't recommend any 10" sub except for the extremely budget or space concious. An 8"? I wouldn't recommend period, not even a HSU or Lavasub, and certainly not one with an MSRP over 1000 (and don't pull that "nothing sells at MSRP" garbage.. even if it doesn't, it gives dealers a very high reference value off which to discount) Of course, being in the brick and mortar industry I'm sure you're not familiar with many high-value subs.

Sorry, that little 8" passive radiator tuned around 30hz? unacceptable for a subwoofer in any sized room... except maybe a car, except now it would sound awful due to cabin gain not meshing well with that (for a car) low tuning frequency.

Now I do agree that two subs with 12" drivers would be recommended over a single, as it would mean better in-room response.

A pair of Rythmik F12s ($1600 total for the pair) would wipe the floor with those phase tech 10s, while costing less. Wipe the floor in every category.. output, sound quality, distortion, extension.

Why you would recommend the phase tech 8s is beyond me. an 8" bass reflex sub that only digs to 28 hz, even with servo on its side, unless you're only paying like 450 a piece, is a waste of money.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Dude, it's basically rich man's Epik Legend. You're getting it basically for free in that package (which pretty much always retails for $3700...those aren't exactly light savings).
Yeah, but if you are spending that much on a speaker system to begin with, you might as well try to score a serious subwoofer or two. Bass is too important in creating a impressive home theater to settle with anything less. I would figure out how to work in a Hsu VTF-15H in there, to really scare the children.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah, but if you are spending that much on a speaker system to begin with, you might as well try to score a serious subwoofer or two. Bass is too important in creating a impressive home theater to settle with anything less. I would figure out how to work in a Hsu VTF-15H in there, to really scare the children.

At the end of the day there's tradeoffs with everything. For $2500 you'd be getting an amazing system with great loudspeakers and a very good subwoofer that extends down to 20hz and gives lots of clean output.

Could you do better than that sub?

Sure you could. I could blow the HSU VTF-15H away too with the same amount of money DIY and make the HSU look like a weak little klipsch sub.

Just because you wouldn't personally get the Aperion does not mean it is a weak sub in any ways whatsoever. For 99% of people it's probably a more powerful sub than they need.

Personally I'd love to have a couple LMS-5400s in my house. But that doesn't mean i would skimp on mains and surrounds to have the best possible sub.
 
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InTheIndustry

Senior Audioholic
That's just silly. How is it too much?. In any properly equalized system, bigger drivers (in proper enclosures) will dig deeper and have far better dynamic capability, far less harmonic distortion for a cleaner sound. It's just a matter of ease with which the surface area can reproduce bass.

Now in a very small room I wouldn't immediately go for a bass reflex sub(wheras i'd lean that way in a larger room), but that doesn't mean I wouldn't go for a 12" or 15" sub utilized properly. I wouldn't recommend any 10" sub except for the extremely budget or space concious. An 8"? I wouldn't recommend period, not even a HSU or Lavasub, and certainly not one with an MSRP over 1000 (and don't pull that "nothing sells at MSRP" garbage.. even if it doesn't, it gives dealers a very high reference value off which to discount) Of course, being in the brick and mortar industry I'm sure you're not familiar with many high-value subs.

Sorry, that little 8" passive radiator tuned around 30hz? unacceptable for a subwoofer in any sized room... except maybe a car, except now it would sound awful due to cabin gain not meshing well with that (for a car) low tuning frequency.

Now I do agree that two subs with 12" drivers would be recommended over a single, as it would mean better in-room response.

A pair of Rythmik F12s ($1600 total for the pair) would wipe the floor with those phase tech 10s, while costing less. Wipe the floor in every category.. output, sound quality, distortion, extension.

Why you would recommend the phase tech 8s is beyond me. an 8" bass reflex sub that only digs to 28 hz, even with servo on its side, unless you're only paying like 450 a piece, is a waste of money.

1st: What is your real world, practical experience with these products that either I or you have recommended in this thread? I would just like to better understand where your ideas & knowledge come from regarding any of these specific subwoofers so that I can tailor my response appropriately. You have very strong opinions regarding speakers & I've been very curious as to what those are based on?

2nd: As I stated, the 2 10" subs will be perfectly suited for that room. Why? Because they would easily reach the THX reference level of 105db in that space. To buy bigger would be pointless while at the same could prove challenging to EQ in that size room depending on the user's ability. I recommended the 8s as a budget concession if needed & because, while they would not reach as much output as the 10s, they offer high enough output to still play deep in that size room. It's all dependent on the listeners listening habits & preferred volume, which is why I offered the alternative.

Why do I like & recommend the wireless function? Because it allows for far more flexible placement to achieve the best bass experience in the room.

I found it a compliment, though, that your only quibble of my system build was my step down alternative - budget concession subwoofer. The biting-at-my-ankles comment about not knowing about value because I'm "brick & mortar" holds no weight. I put together a near $5k MSRP system for under $3k & hit THX level db out of all 7 speakers.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
1st: What is your real world, practical experience with these products that either I or you have recommended in this thread? I would just like to better understand where your ideas & knowledge come from regarding any of these specific subwoofers so that I can tailor my response appropriately. You have very strong opinions regarding speakers & I've been very curious as to what those are based on?
I have which strong opinions on which speaker I recommended in this thread. I do however take offense to the idea you suggested because you recommend some rather expensive 8" subwoofers and then suggested that a larger subwoofer would have inferior performance.

If it makes you feel good about yourself, "I have no real world, practical experience with these products, unlike InTheIndustry, who has real world, practical experience with products that make zero sense to recommend at those exhrobant prices including a ~$1200+ (?) MSRP 8" subwoofer with extension down to a 28hz".

2nd: As I stated, the 2 10" subs will be perfectly suited for that room. Why? Because they would easily reach the THX reference level of 105db in that space. To buy bigger would be pointless while at the same could prove challenging to EQ in that size room depending on the user's ability. I recommended the 8s as a budget concession if needed & because, while they would not reach as much output as the 10s, they offer high enough output to still play deep in that size room. It's all dependent on the listeners listening habits & preferred volume, which is why I offered the alternative.
For starters, THX Reference levels for subwoofers are 115db.
That doesn't even take into account extension. Here there are movies with tons of content into the 20s(and lower), so I took exception at the idea of recommending an 8" passive radiator subwoofer with extension down to 28hz. The rolloff of a passive radiator off the top of my head is somewhere in the range of 36db/octave below tuning... and there's likely an amplifier high pass filter thrown in to protect the driver below tuning. What you then get, is a subwoofer that does not do bass below probably ~25hz, regardless of any room gain, at a cost more than more capable subwoofers"

I did not initially have a problem with your 10" recommendation, as I'm sure it's a subwoofer that has impressed you. But to have the gall to say that too much is too much is just ridiculous. That's what I've got an issue with. a 12" subwoofer can do what a 10" subwoofer can do with less excursion, thus less potential for distortion. Yes I noticed the phase tech is servo and probably has some ultra high excursion driver too. It's still limited by its passive radiator below its tuning point.

Truth is, all subwoofers require EQ, no matter the size. If you're recommending not EQing properly, then you're recommending not even attempting for flat response and just assuming it. why you would think that a subwoofer capable of deeper response would be a bad thing is beyond me. EQing down is a lot easier than EQing up.

Why do I like & recommend the wireless function? Because it allows for far more flexible placement to achieve the best bass experience in the room.
You're right, but it's nothing some long wires underneath some baseboards won't usually solve.

I found it a compliment, though, that your only quibble of my system build was my step down alternative - budget concession subwoofer. The biting-at-my-ankles comment about not knowing about value because I'm "brick & mortar" holds no weight. I put together a near $5k MSRP system for under $3k & hit THX level db out of all 7 speakers.
I never have a problem with anyone else's recommendations. I have a problem with ridiculous statements backing them up.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
1st: What is your real world, practical experience with these products that either I or you have recommended in this thread? I would just like to better understand where your ideas & knowledge come from regarding any of these specific subwoofers so that I can tailor my response appropriately. You have very strong opinions regarding speakers & I've been very curious as to what those are based on?
I have no strong opinions on any speaker I recommended in this thread. I do however take offense to the idea you suggested because you recommend some rather expensive 8" subwoofers and then suggested that a larger subwoofer would have inferior performance.

If it makes you feel good about yourself, "I have no real world, practical experience with these products, unlike InTheIndustry, who has real world, practical experience with products that make zero sense to recommend at those exhrobant prices including a ~$1200+ (?) MSRP 8" subwoofer with extension down to a 28hz".

2nd: As I stated, the 2 10" subs will be perfectly suited for that room. Why? Because they would easily reach the THX reference level of 105db in that space. To buy bigger would be pointless while at the same could prove challenging to EQ in that size room depending on the user's ability. I recommended the 8s as a budget concession if needed & because, while they would not reach as much output as the 10s, they offer high enough output to still play deep in that size room. It's all dependent on the listeners listening habits & preferred volume, which is why I offered the alternative.
For starters, THX Reference levels for subwoofers are 115db.
That doesn't even take into account extension. Here there are movies with tons of content into the 20s, so I took exception at the idea of recommending an 8" passive radiator subwoofer with extension down to 28hz. The rolloff of a passive radiator off the top of my head is somewhere in the range of 36db/octave below tuning... and there's likely an amplifier high pass filter thrown in to protect the driver below tuning. What you then get, is a subwoofer that does not do low bass, regardless of any room gain.

I did not initially have a problem with your 10" recommendation, as I'm sure it's a subwoofer that has impressed you. But to have the gall to say that too much is too much is just ridiculous. That's what I've got an issue with.

And truth is, all subwoofers require EQ, no matter the size. If you're recommending not EQing properly, then you're recommending not even attempting for flat response and just assuming it. why you would think that a subwoofer capable of deeper response would be a bad thing is beyond me. EQing down is a lot easier than EQing up.

Why do I like & recommend the wireless function? Because it allows for far more flexible placement to achieve the best bass experience in the room.
*not that i ever even mentioned the wireless aspect.

I found it a compliment, though, that your only quibble of my system build was my step down alternative - budget concession subwoofer. The biting-at-my-ankles comment about not knowing about value because I'm "brick & mortar" holds no weight. I put together a near $5k MSRP system for under $3k & hit THX level db out of all 7 speakers.
I never have a problem with anyone else's recommendations. I have a problem with ridiculous statements backing them up.

I do have a question though, those THX speakers you recommend, at what distance will they do THX peaks of 105db? Because that to me suggest speakers themselves capable of like 112+db without distortion... that would be a rather impressive speaker.
 
S

spike99

Junior Audioholic
OK, so someone had suggested PBS speaker and on my lunch break I was able to find a nearby vendor.

Although I did not have time to listen to any music, salesperson was recommending Paradigm for me versus PBS. They suggested that PBS was more for music listening... My use will be mainly be movies and not music. I will be going another day for some testing... but in the mean time I will research these speakers. Does anyone recommend this company ? In general, I do want to stick with only one company for all speakers versus mix matching different companies.

Note: I have my TV on top of my BDI cabinet and for now I'm not sure if I will place mount my TV on a TV mount/wall. Hence I want to place center speaker in BDI's speaker drawer which only allows a maximum height of 8".

I would appreciate any suggestions that center speakers are no more than 8".

Thanks in advance :)
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
OK, so someone had suggested PBS speaker and on my lunch break I was able to find a nearby vendor.

Although I did not have time to listen to any music, salesperson was recommending Paradigm for me versus PBS. They suggested that PBS was more for music listening... My use will be mainly be movies and not music. I will be going another day for some testing... but in the mean time I will research these speakers. Does anyone recommend this company ? In general, I do want to stick with only one company for all speakers versus mix matching different companies.

Note: I have my TV on top of my BDI cabinet and for now I'm not sure if I will place mount my TV on a TV mount/wall. Hence I want to place center speaker in BDI's speaker drawer which only allows a maximum height of 8".

I would appreciate any suggestions that center speakers are no more than 8".

Thanks in advance :)
If you are asking AHers opinions, please from now IGNORE any dealers recommendations.

Paradigms have higher profit margins than PSB. In general it's apples vs oranges. Listed to the music you know well and hopefully at same loudness.
Decide for yourself. For music - you'll need good sub or two anyways. It's just matter of crossover point.

However for rec:
I do like a lot GrantedEV suggested setup:
2 x Epik Legend subwoofer - $900
2 x Emotiva ERD-1 surround - 289
3 x Ascend 340 fronts - 568 + 30 + 298 + 20
3 x Ascend Pedestal stands - 100 + 30 + ???
But I'd replace ERD-1 to Ascend CBM-170 SE
 
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