Help me choose an amp

[darien87]

Hey folks,

I recently bought a Yamaha 661. It's a great receiver for the money, but I think I might like to get a separate amp to give me a bit more juice. Initially, I was looking at the Emotiva LPA-1, but it is only 35 watts per channel more than the 661. Also, I figured an amp would be a lot cleaner than a receiver, but Yamaha specs the 661 at 90 W/Channel at .06%THD, while the Emotiva is spec'd at 125 W/Channel at .04% THD.

That doesn't seem to be too much of a difference. So is it really worth spending the $500 on the Emotiva? What about other amplifier manufacturers? A rep for Emotiva actually gave me some pretty honest info. He said that unless I felt that my 661 was lacking, I might not notice much of a difference with the LPA-1. He did mention the "all channels driven" thing. And the fact that receivers typically use solid state chip or class D amps as opposed to the discrete set up of an outboard amp.

So anyway, what should I do?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Throw in 200 more bucks and get that Emotiva 200 watt amp and let me know how it works out since I am thinking of doing the same thing.

 

[markw]

He's got a point

When upgrading power amps, always go for at least twice the power, more, if possible. If you don't , you won't really notice any change.

When you double your available power, youu increase your headroom by three decibles, which is not really noticable. To get an apparant doubling of your max headrooom, you need ten times your original power.

 

[darien87]

When upgrading power amps, always go for at least twice the power, more, if possible. If you don't , you won't really notice any change.

When you double your available power, youu increase your headroom by three decibles, which is not really noticable.

So even with the 200 watt Emotiva amp, there won't be much of a difference? Seems kinda pointless then.

 

[riceaterslc]

have you looked at outlaws stuff?

 

[darien87]

have you looked at outlaws stuff?

Nope. Got a link? That's one of the reasons I started the thread, I was hoping for options.

 

[enrique]

I dont know if your willing to go used but i just picked up a sunfire 300x2 for less than 600 off ebay.There was another one there also that sold for a little more.Just to let you know that good amps can be had in the used mkt.

 

[zildjian]

Nope. Got a link? That's one of the reasons I started the thread, I was hoping for options.

www.outlawaudio.com

 

[davidtwotrees]

I dont know if your willing to go used ..........Just to let you know that good amps can be had in the used mkt.

Here here on used amps. They stand up to shipping well, and last longer than more delicate products. You can get almost twice the amp for the same price between used and new. You are buying an older product......but amps tend to last and last........

 

[cfrizz]

Believe me when I tell you that 200wpc is NOT pointless! This is how I got hooked on separate amplification. I added a 205wpc Parasound 1500A amp to my system & it was the best improvement I have ever made to my system.

I now have a 405wpc Sunfire 5 channel amp for all my speakers! I will never have a system without separate amplification ever again & the minimum I will have will be 200wpc.

Forget about it being loud, what it will give you is better clarity, better separation between instruments, better bass, & tons of headroom when you are in the middle of an action sequence. It will also go louder than you will ever be able to stand it.

So even with the 200 watt Emotiva amp, there won't be much of a difference? Seems kinda pointless then.

 

[Seth=L]

200 watts per channel from a power amp is much more than the 90 watts per channel for the Yamaha. If the Yamaha was tested with all channels driven it probably would achieve 90 watts per channel @ 1khz. The Emotiva is likely 200 watts per channel (all channels driven) 20hz-20khz, BIG DIFFERENCE!

Plus the Emotiva is more stable with difficult loads that speakers will call for when pushed harder and lower. Believe me, a seperate amplifier is a significant upgrade.

 

[jaxvon]

But don't forget that you need a hell of a preamp to be able to even use all those watts when it comes to large amplifiers. If you start driving your preamp into audible distortion by 2v, the biggest amp in the world is useless to you.

 

[skizzerflake]

Hey folks,

I recently bought a Yamaha 661. It's a great receiver for the money, but I think I might like to get a separate amp to give me a bit more juice. Initially, I was looking at the Emotiva LPA-1, but it is only 35 watts per channel more than the 661. Also, I figured an amp would be a lot cleaner than a receiver, but Yamaha specs the 661 at 90 W/Channel at .06%THD, while the Emotiva is spec'd at 125 W/Channel at .04% THD.

Don't pay too much attention to those THD figures. The interaction between components is much more significant than small difference in distortion. In addition, Yamahas generally have a pretty good sound for mass market stuff. The difference in power is also very small. A doubling of power amounts to 3 db more loudness, which ain't really much, so the difference between 90 and 125 would hardly register.

That doesn't seem to be too much of a difference. So is it really worth spending the $500 on the Emotiva? What about other amplifier manufacturers? A rep for Emotiva actually gave me some pretty honest info. He said that unless I felt that my 661 was lacking, I might not notice much of a difference with the LPA-1. He did mention the "all channels driven" thing. And the fact that receivers typically use solid state chip or class D amps as opposed to the discrete set up of an outboard amp.

So anyway, what should I do?

Don't spend your money unless you can audition a component in a good listening environment and actually hear something good.

 

[EJD]

I recently auditioned the LPA-1 and although it was a beautiful piece, I chose to return it. I liked the sound of it a bit better than my DA5ES with similar power ratings (110 wpc), but not really enough to justify switching. Sounds like pretty much what the Emotiva rep told you. If you do decide to audition it and choose not to keep it, be aware that it will cost you about $75 in shipping to send it back.

I am now kicking around the idea of a 200wpc or higher amp for the mains. One option that looks interesting are the 2200 monoblocks from Outlaw. This way if you ever decided to also add more power to your center channel, you could just get one more and not have to look for a three channel (or more) amp.

 

[darien87]

It turns out that the Emotiva 200 W/channel amp is $1,700 not $700, so I'm not sure where Greg was getting, "spend $200 more and get the 200 watt amp" from.

I'm not totally against going used, especially on something like an amp, since it basically only does one thing. Seems to me like a component with less parts and functions should last longer than one with tons of knobs and switches and stuff. Guess I'll start looking around for a good used amp.

 

[tomd51]

It turns out that the Emotiva 200 W/channel amp is $1,700 not $700, so I'm not sure where Greg was getting, "spend $200 more and get the 200 watt amp" from.

I'm not totally against going used, especially on something like an amp, since it basically only does one thing. Seems to me like a component with less parts and functions should last longer than one with tons of knobs and switches and stuff. Guess I'll start looking around for a good used amp.

I think Greg was referring to the two channel amp, which is $200 more, not the 5/7 channel amp.

A used amp will get you the biggest "bang for your buck", figuratively and literally...

In addition to your thought process of an amp being less likely to be problematic than a receiver or pre/pro, it's also less prone to suffer from technological advances. Amplification has, for the most part, stayed pretty consistent over the years as opposed to the technology changes receivers and pre/pros go through on a yearly or sometimes even bi-annual basis.

You've heard it earlier in this thread and you'll hear it again, but there's no such thing as too much power. There is a substantial difference between 100 watts and 200 watts, besides just the number. I first noticed this a couple of years ago when adding an HK PA2000 amp that's rated at 100wpc to my Denon 3803, which is rated at 110wpc. When listening at volumes up to approximately 70dB, there was little to no discernible difference between the two, however from ~70dB and higher, there was noticeable separation and clarity of the signal as opposed to using the internal amps of the Denon. From that point, I ventured on to using more powerful amps for two, three and then five channels and have found that for my listening preferences, a 5 x 200wpc outboard amp does the trick just fine. It does help that my speakers have a 93dB sensitivity level, so I can get pretty heavy duty listening levels (105dB) at the reference level point on my receiver (0dB). In a 2800+ cu. ft. listening area, I'm getting plenty of volume with minimal distortion.

My suggestion would be to go used, get as much power as you can afford, then sit back and enjoy... -TD

 

[Jey Jockey]

Even the LPA1 will give you alot better sound, its not just watts, its the power supply, caps etc...people rave about the LPA1...me, I have the MPS1 and now that thing kicks serious *** and sounds incredible....Emo make very fine amps for very little money...a true bargain and 5 year warranty!

Another thing to remember is that Yammy and most AVR's except HK and a couple of others measure their wpc in various ways and a realistic output of your 661 is more like 40wpc...hate to burst your bubble but thats why folks hear such a huge difference when hooking up a "lowly" 125 wpc amp such as the LPA1.

 

[darien87]

I think Greg was referring to the two channel amp, which is $200 more, not the 5/7 channel amp.

A used amp will get you the biggest "bang for your buck", figuratively and literally...

In addition to your thought process of an amp being less likely to be problematic than a receiver or pre/pro, it's also less prone to suffer from technological advances. Amplification has, for the most part, stayed pretty consistent over the years as opposed to the technology changes receivers and pre/pros go through on a yearly or sometimes even bi-annual basis.

You've heard it earlier in this thread and you'll hear it again, but there's no such thing as too much power. There is a substantial difference between 100 watts and 200 watts, besides just the number. I first noticed this a couple of years ago when adding an HK PA2000 amp that's rated at 100wpc to my Denon 3803, which is rated at 110wpc. When listening at volumes up to approximately 70dB, there was little to no discernible difference between the two, however from ~70dB and higher, there was noticeable separation and clarity of the signal as opposed to using the internal amps of the Denon. From that point, I ventured on to using more powerful amps for two, three and then five channels and have found that for my listening preferences, a 5 x 200wpc outboard amp does the trick just fine. It does help that my speakers have a 93dB sensitivity level, so I can get pretty heavy duty listening levels (105dB) at the reference level point on my receiver (0dB). In a 2800+ cu. ft. listening area, I'm getting plenty of volume with minimal distortion.

My suggestion would be to go used, get as much power as you can afford, then sit back and enjoy... -TD

Awesome post. Thanks for the info Tom.

"Cinderella story. Former greenskeeper..... out of nowhere...."

Sorry, back to the subject. Do you have any sites or sources for picking up high quality used gear? Also, what brands should I look for? So far, I ahve heard of Emotiva, Outlaw, Sunfire, NAD, Carver. Are they all pretty comparable?

 

[no. 5]

Have you thought about pro amps?

For example, a Crown XLS-402 stereo amplifier can be had for around $300 to $400 and deliver 300 watts a channel, and Behringer has the EP2500 that’s 450 watts a channel for $350.

Or would that just be too many choices…

 

[tomd51]

"Gunga ga lunga... gunga la gunga.." Sorry, couldn't resist...

All of the manufacturer's you've listed build quality amps for the money, so unless it's someone you've never heard of and no one else has, you'll likely get very comparable performance from any of these w/the same wattage ratings.

I have used (and continue to use) the following sites for my pre-owned purchases:

AudiogoN (here's a URL for multichannel amps at Audiogon)
eBay (selectively, from good rating sellers)
AVS Forum
Audioholics classifieds
Home Theater Forum
Home Theater Spot (requires paid membership for access to the Yardsale Spot section)
AV123 Forum
Home Theater Shack

That should keep you busy for a bit... -TD