B&W sold to a Silicon Valley start up company

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you look at my measurements of the 800 D3, you can see that peak slightly in the on axis measurement and in the waterfall plot slightly. However if you look at the off axis response it disappears. So the in room response is likely good. However the waterfall plot gives the suggestion that things are not quite right at 10 KHz.

I'm not convinced diamond is the best material for a tweeter diaphragm. The SEAS diamond tweeter is not that good either come to that by measrement. The fabric dome SEAS excel tweeters I use in my mains measure better.

So I am seriously concerned this drive to diamond is driven by the marketing department more than anything else. Rigid versus flexible cones has merits they go both ways. I have never been convinced that all truth lies in the rigid camp, but my be I'm in the minority on that, but may be not. To me a really good soft dome tweeter sounds much more natural than any hard dome. Although I had some Titanium dome tweeters in the living room speakers in Grand Forks that went with house. I liked them very much.

I think many of us have seen accurate speaker measurements from almost all types of driver materials (soft dome, Beryllium, Titanium, Aluminum, Magnesium), except for Diamond.

So I agree that synthetic diamond is more of a marketing scheme - people think “exotic diamond” even if it’s synthetic and not real diamond.

I mean synthetic diamond is not the worst, but just not as accurate as all the other materials.

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL I always thought it was just a marketing term, not a material for a tweeter....

 

[Pogre]

LOL I always thought it was just a marketing term, not a material for a tweeter....

Me too! Glad I wasn't the only one... lol.

So that's interesting. I'll bet all the reviews talk about the "crystalline highs". Surely it's diamond coated something, right? Powdered and baked on or something? I'll also bet they're using synthetic diamonds. This might even merit a Google search...

 

[NINaudio]

Speaking of diamond tweeters, Salk used a pair in a recent build. They were only $6k for the matched pair:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=170317.0

and here are the specific ones he used:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/diamond-dome-tweeters/seas-excel-t29d001-diamond-dome-tweeter-matched-pair/

 

[lovinthehd]

Me too! Glad I wasn't the only one... lol.

So that's interesting. I'll bet all the reviews talk about the "crystalline highs". Surely it's diamond coated something, right? Powdered and baked on or something? I'll also bet they're using synthetic diamonds. This might even merit a Google search...

I never looked into it but I can imagine they can deposit/form synthetic diamond in a variety of ways, thinking what they can do with silicon and various metals these days....just no real interest in chasing top end B&W speakers for a listen, doubt it's worth the travel effort.

 

[Pogre]

Speaking of diamond tweeters, Salk used a pair in a recent build. They were only $6k for the matched pair:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=170317.0

and here are the specific ones he used:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/diamond-dome-tweeters/seas-excel-t29d001-diamond-dome-tweeter-matched-pair/

God, those are gorgeous! I swear I almost feel physical pain longing for them when I look at them.

 

[ryanosaur]

doubt it's worth the travel effort.

Agreed, but would still like to hear them nonetheless, just as a point of comparison. Same with the Salon2s and other such Lux speakers.

 

[John Parks]

God, those are gorgeous! I swear I almost feel physical pain longing for them when I look at them.

Ascend Acoustics offers a Sierra with the SEAS Diamond Tweeter for only $7500!

Diamond Tweeter?

Just yesterday I had the pleasure of having Claus from SEAS visit us for the day. We spent most of the time discussing our forthcoming Sierra Sat and about potential new business and new products. We have been working directly with SEAS now for 15 years -- hard to believe it but where has the...

forum.ascendacoustics.com

As for the B&W 800 D3 series - I got to have an extended listen to the 803 D3 last fall, and yes they are that nice: probably in my all time top 3. It seems whenever B&W takes the tweeter out of the cabinet for the 700 series (or older CM series) or the midrange/tweeter for the 800 series, something special happens. I'm glad they did it for the 803 this time around (it used to be in the cabinet and was not that impressive, IMO). I believe from my listening experience that the sweet spots for the entire B&W range are the 705 S2 and the 803 D3.

 

[TLS Guy]

Me too! Glad I wasn't the only one... lol.

So that's interesting. I'll bet all the reviews talk about the "crystalline highs". Surely it's diamond coated something, right? Powdered and baked on or something? I'll also bet they're using synthetic diamonds. This might even merit a Google search...

Yes it is synthetic industrial diamond. It is solid diamond though and they have been known to crack with over driving. That's an expensive mistake!

 

[Pogre]

Yes it is synthetic industrial diamond. It is solid diamond though and they have been known to crack with over driving. That's an expensive mistake!

I just read a post in that thread about that! $50 - $70 to replace a ribbon and $1300 for a cracked diamond tweeter!

 

[NINaudio]

Yes it is synthetic industrial diamond. It is solid diamond though and they have been known to crack with over driving. That's an expensive mistake!

Yeah, there's no way they're using a naturally formed diamond and only charging $6k for it. I'd imagine getting a perfectly formed natural diamond of that size (let alone 2) would be nearly impossible and ridiculously expensive!

 

[gene]

If you look at my measurements of the 800 D3, you can see that peak slightly in the on axis measurement and in the waterfall plot slightly. However if you look at the off axis response it disappears. So the in room response is likely good. However the waterfall plot gives the suggestion that things are not quite right at 10 KHz.

I'm not convinced diamond is the best material for a tweeter diaphragm. The SEAS diamond tweeter is not that good either come to that by measrement. The fabric dome SEAS excel tweeters I use in my mains measure better.

So I am seriously concerned this drive to diamond is driven by the marketing department more than anything else. Rigid versus flexible cones has merits they go both ways. I have never been convinced that all truth lies in the rigid camp, but my be I'm in the minority on that, but may be not. To me a really good soft dome tweeter sounds much more natural than any hard dome. Although I had some Titanium dome tweeters in the living room speakers in Grand Forks that went with house. I liked them very much.

The best sounding metal domes I've ever heard are Beryllium. RBH and Revel use them in their top models and they really do have incredibly smooth and detailed highs. Unlike most metal domes, they don't exhibit oil can resonances and their break up modes are at least a 1/2 octave above the limits of human hearing. Downside, pure Beryllium is expensive, but hey, this is high end

 

[lovinthehd]

The best sounding metal domes I've ever heard are Beryllium. RBH and Revel use them in their top models and they really do have incredibly smooth and detailed highs. Unlike most metal domes, they don't exhibit oil can resonances and their break up modes are at least a 1/2 octave above the limits of human hearing. Downside, pure Beryllium is expensive, but hey, this is high end

What is an oil can resonance?

 

[ryanosaur]

The best sounding metal domes I've ever heard are Beryllium. RBH and Revel use them in their top models and they really do have incredibly smooth and detailed highs. Unlike most metal domes, they don't exhibit oil can resonances and their break up modes are at least a 1/2 octave above the limits of human hearing. Downside, pure Beryllium is expensive, but hey, this is high end

I picked up a "used" pair of Transducer Lab Be Tweets with the Glass Bobbin. Got a friendly price as the original owner wasn't planning on using them any longer for his DIY design. Supposed to be good, and according to sources, they were intended as the Be Tweets in Salk's builds until TL suffered some setbacks.
They're unicorns now, but will be fun to experiment with!

 

[TLS Guy]

The best sounding metal domes I've ever heard are Beryllium. RBH and Revel use them in their top models and they really do have incredibly smooth and detailed highs. Unlike most metal domes, they don't exhibit oil can resonances and their break up modes are at least a 1/2 octave above the limits of human hearing. Downside, pure Beryllium is expensive, but hey, this is high end

I think there is a lot more to a tweeter than what the dome is made of.

I selected this tweeter for my mains.

I have no complaints about them at all. I have heard speakers with Beryllium and I can not say they distress me, but I don't think there is any magic in them. As far as price there is no daylight between the two. That SEAS unit has done nothing to upset me. It is detailed and yet neutral, with low Fs and excellent power handling.
I know fabric dome does not sound exotic, but I find on the whole soft domes to be the best of the bunch and the least sibilant.

 

[NINaudio]

The best sounding metal domes I've ever heard are Beryllium. RBH and Revel use them in their top models and they really do have incredibly smooth and detailed highs. Unlike most metal domes, they don't exhibit oil can resonances and their break up modes are at least a 1/2 octave above the limits of human hearing. Downside, pure Beryllium is expensive, but hey, this is high end

Plus side, if it breaks, it's a radiation and health hazard for your whole house!

 

[ryanosaur]

Plus side, if it breaks, it's a radiation and health hazard for your whole house!

Definitely a health hazard, but not radioactive. (Though there are some radioactive isotopes of Be.)

 

[Beave]

What is an oil can resonance?

It's when you hit one of these with a drum stick

 

[Beave]

A little more seriously, I think an 'oil can resonance' occurs when the tweeter dome moves out of phase with the movement of its surround - in other words, the surround is moving the tweeter outward but the center of the tweeter dome is actually moving inward, and vice versa. This is all related to the frequency, the mass of the dome, inertia, and a bunch of other physics terms I can't remember.

I think - I'm guessing - that the terminology comes from the old style of oil cans somehow?

 

[NINaudio]

Definitely a health hazard, but not radioactive. (Though there are some radioactive isotopes of Be.)

Ahh, sorry, I guess I was going off my experience from work. We have beryllium windows in some of the accelerator parts and when they break they're radioactive in addition to being an inhaled toxic health hazard.