Blu-ray player prices going up

[jinjuku]

Well, whowhouldathunkit? BR player prices are going up check it out (http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36428/113/).

[Johnd]

Well, whowhouldathunkit? BR player prices are going up check it out (http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36428/113/).

Awww, shucks. Just when I was just going to trade in my A35's (For $499 each that I bought at TD for $169). :p;)

What is one to do? ;)

[bigbangtheory]

This is why competition and profit motive are always a good thing.

I learned that in 8th grade economics class, btw.

[allargon]

But, but things would be better for the consumer if there were just one format. :rolleyes:

[Johnd]

[QUOTE]This is why competition and profit motive are always a good thing.

I think some from the BD camp have alluded to the proposition, without ever really mentioning it, that when only one format exists, more people will purchase BD players, consequently driving the price down. I don't see that happening...unless they first lower the prices. Catch 22.

I learned that in 8th grade economics class, btw.

Me too. :D

[MUDSHARK]

Well, whowhouldathunkit? BR player prices are going up check it out (http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36428/113/).

Stratman's not going to take it kindly stealing his thunder like this.:p

[Johnd]

Stratman's not going to take it kindly stealing his thunder like this.:p

Oh oh. ;)

The funny thing is, as anti HD and pro BD as strat is...he owns neither, and does not plan on buying in until the end of the year ("Black Friday"). I fear either BD will be dead by then, or the prices will have quadrupled. :p;)

[patnshan]

I think I'll get a PS3 so I can play games on it when Blu Ray fails:D It's a joke, but may not be that far off from the truth if the prices don't come down.

Many people can't buy food and gas, let alone a $400 half baked Blu Ray player. The fully baked one's (BD50) will surely be over $500:eek:

Pat

[Alamar]

As I posted in another thread earlier it's not easy to repeal the laws of supply & demand.

For players the supply is relatively static. You could even consider that there is slightly less [economic] supply due to a lack of competition from competitors willing to sell at cut-throat prices. So supply is roughly the same or has gone down.

Since Blu won the format war it looks like demand for Blu players are going up.

Hmm .. supply same or down combined with demand up -> prices up :)

************************************************

I honestly expect this will turn around when:

1. More companies start producing BD players.
2. More pressure from the BD group to lower prices to spur demand for content.

I could go into further analysis but the "8th grade" version above should be good enough for government work :)

[dobyblue]

I fear either BD will be dead by then, or the prices will have quadrupled. :p;)

Well, the latter certainly isn't going to happen.

Sylvania's just announced their profile 1.1 BD player for June 15th, 2008 with an MSRP of $399.

Given that Amazon's players normally list between 20-30% off the MSRP, that would put the Sylvania at between $279 and $319.

My money says it will be sub-$250 by Christmas and BD will be very much alive.

[dobyblue]

Is this the Mark Raby article? Can't you trace the doom and gloom regarding Blu-ray in all his articles?

Wow, the list price has gone up $40 since a few weeks after Christmas. That's a first in consumer electronics isn't it?

What a conspiracy theory you guys have uncovered.

Newsflash, the MSRP on the players he's mentioning hasn't budged at all recently, he's just comparing the average prices on Price Grabber.

Tsk, tsk.

"Pursuing the Truth in Audio & Video"

Yah, right.

[dobyblue]

Oddly enough the current lowest prices on Price Grabber are:

Samsung BD-P1400 - $352
Sharp BD-HP20U - $350
Sony BDP-S300 - $357
Panasonic DMP-BD30 - $414

..and the first thing you see on the site is:

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3517/tempes6.png

Ha, ha, prices sure are going up aren't they!
I'll bet the BD-P1500, the next Sharp, the Panasonic DMP-BD50 and Sony BDP-S350 are all going to list for around $999, it's just craziness!!


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Johnd]

Well, the latter certainly isn't going to happen.

Sylvania's just announced their profile 1.1 BD player for June 15th, 2008 with an MSRP of $399.

Given that Amazon's players normally list between 20-30% off the MSRP, that would put the Sylvania at between $279 and $319.

My money says it will be sub-$250 by Christmas and BD will be very much alive.

Well, we'll see. I agree they should be at that pricepoint by then (manufacturing and r&d costs go down over time). Failure to be at a "reasonable price" in the proximate future will not bode well for the format. Without competition, keeping prices high is tantamount to greed, and short-sightedness. Either way, I believe BD days are numbered (whether that be two years or three...I don't know). And I believe they need to do much to get out of the niche market they've always been in...that's all.

Btw: where do you propose we find a BDP1400 for $229 (now, as your ad suggests)? Refurbs are more than that.

Well, here it starts guys. ;)

[j_garcia]

EVERYTHING is going to go up thanks to oil/fuel prices...

[dobyblue]

Well, we'll see. I agree they should be at that pricepoint by then (manufacturing and r&d costs go down over time). Failure to be at a "reasonable price" in the proximate future will not bode well for the format. Without competition, keeping prices high is tantamount to greed, and short-sightedness. Either way, I believe BD days are numbered (whether that be two years or three...I don't know). And I believe they need to do much to get out of the niche market they've always been in...that's all.

Yes, and if your post was dated June 1999 and was about DVD you could have been bang on the money too, but it turned out DVD prices fell and later that year, in September 1999, two and a half years after the format launched, DVD finally had a title sell 1,000,000 copies; The Matrix.

I believe BD's days are numbered too, but I believe it will be in about 20 years, not 2-3.

As to the niche market, the format is still 3 months away from its 2nd birthday, so I don't think they have to be concerned about anything just yet. If they weren't seeing any growth then there'd be reason for concern, but there is growth. SonyDADC have already replicated over 115 million Blu-ray Discs. (Keeping in mind they're running lots of BD-ROM for PlayStation 3 games also)

Prices will continue to fall. This time last year $799 was a good price for a non-PS3 player, now it's $350. Soon it will be $300, then $250, then $200, etc.

Fox just dropped their MSRP's on over 20 catalogue titles by $10.

Without competition? So Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo, Oppo, Sony, Samsung, Sharp, Sylvania, Funai, Arcam, Loewe, Panasonic, Philips, etc., are not going to be competing with each other to get the consumer to buy their product?

Do Sharp, Sony, Vizio, Samsung, etc., not compete with each other for LCD products?

Do Pioneer, Samsung, Hitachi and Panasonic not compete for plasma products?

Are all Windows based PC manufacturers not competing with each other?

[dobyblue]

Btw: where do you propose we find a BDP1400 for $229 (now, as your ad suggests)? Refurbs are more than that.


Oh, no, that's not my ad. I'm not in the retail business.
That's an ad from Price Grabber.

http://www.secondact.com/product/BDP1400RB?meta=PRICEGRABBER-BDP1400RB

That's $229 for a refurbished BD-P1400, exactly as the ad suggests.

[Johnd]

Oh, no, that's not my ad. I'm not in the retail business.
That's an ad from Price Grabber.

http://www.secondact.com/product/BDP1400RB?meta=PRICEGRABBER-BDP1400RB

That's $229 for a refurbished BD-P1400, exactly as the ad suggests.


Hah. The cruel joke in what you write is the fact that there are so many refurbed BD players. :D


And yes j, most everything will go up in price because of energy costs. I think that will be furthered for BD because of little competition. But we'll see...

[Alamar]

Well, the latter certainly isn't going to happen.

Sylvania's just announced their profile 1.1 BD player for June 15th, 2008 with an MSRP of $399.

Given that Amazon's players normally list between 20-30% off the MSRP, that would put the Sylvania at between $279 and $319.

My money says it will be sub-$250 by Christmas and BD will be very much alive.

Currently the lowest price on Amazon is basically 400$ [just searched and sorted by price low-to-high]. IIRC this price is higher than it was a month or two ago ....

As far as prices dropping I would expect to see sub 300$ units around Black Friday to Christmas and possibly sub 200$ units by the same time the next year. This of course assume production costs go down and the Blu Group gets serious about competing with DVD .....

[PENG]

But, but things would be better for the consumer if there were just one format. :rolleyes:

People still compare BD vs HD DVD with VHS vs Beta. May be such comparison is not valid due to change in time and technology. MacIntosh is still alive and well! Crossovers are getting quite popular but body on frame 4X4 with low range are still selling.

For now, I am enjoying my $69.97 machine that comes with the perfect storm and firewall. I will likely buy a BD profile 2.0 if and when they hit the $150 mark. I am sure it will eventually, or they may not survive.

[MUDSHARK]

Perhaps Blu Ray will only be a niche market like DVd-Audio. DVD-Audio is largely a play toy for me with all of seven albums. Not only will players have to not exceed 200 for the masses, the movies will have to be comparable to regular dvd prices.

[mtrycrafts]

Oh oh. ;)
or the prices will have quadrupled. :p;)

In which case most likely he will still not buy into it. :D

[mtrycrafts]

The fully baked one's (BD50) will surely be over $500:eek:

Pat

Fully baked perhaps but how good will it taste? :D Like an XA2?:D

[mtrycrafts]

EVERYTHING is going to go up thanks to oil/fuel prices...

Yes, and that Ethanol savior is part of the blame for the skyrocketing corn prices. Oh well, 200+ years is about it.:eek:

[Johnd]

Is this the Mark Raby article? Can't you trace the doom and gloom regarding Blu-ray in all his articles?

Wow, the list price has gone up $40 since a few weeks after Christmas. That's a first in consumer electronics isn't it?

What a conspiracy theory you guys have uncovered.

Newsflash, the MSRP on the players he's mentioning hasn't budged at all recently, he's just comparing the average prices on Price Grabber.

Tsk, tsk.

"Pursuing the Truth in Audio & Video"

Yah, right.

Huh.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/format-war-blu-ray-up-hd-dvd-down

[zhimbo]

Perhaps Blu Ray will only be a niche market like DVd-Audio.

Don't the vast majority of people (you know, real people, not us here on this site!) still have 40 inch and smaller screens for their main TV?

Until that changes, standard DVD really is plenty good enough for 'the masses'.

[Johnd]

Don't the vast majority of people (you know, real people, not us here on this site!) still have 40 inch and smaller screens for their main TV?

Until that changes, standard DVD really is plenty good enough for 'the masses'.

That, and the fact that the masses generally don't appreciate higher resolution (on any size screen), and aren't willing to pay extra for it.

[dobyblue]

Huh.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/format-war-blu-ray-up-hd-dvd-down

Huh nothing.

The BD price increase also does not include another cost factor: none of the players has included the five free movies since the end of January. This deal went away with HD DVD, further decreasing the value proposition of the players to the consumer.



Oh, you mean the deal that ended in January that was announced in September to be ending on 01.31.08?

Wow, so it ended when they said it would and now that's somehow being spun into ending because HD DVD ended? (Toshiba's announcement didn't come until 02.19.08)

Thanks for helping me illustrate the absolute rubbish being posted by former would be a/v enthusiasts.

[Johnd]

Huh nothing.

Thanks for helping me illustrate the absolute rubbish being posted by former would be a/v enthusiasts.

Nothing? Can you contradict any of Mr. Waratuke's facts? His report is rubbish? It seems to be backed with a lot of factual data. Ahhh, the clouds must be nice... ;):p

[dobyblue]

Nothing? Can you contradict any of Mr. Waratuke's facts? His report is rubbish? It seems to be backed with a lot of factual data. Ahhh, the clouds must be nice... ;):p

What he's doing is taking a fact, that the 5 free movies offer ended on 01.31.08, and insinuating that this happened because HD DVD was going away.

This completely ignores that fact that the January deadline for the deal was put in place back in September, but you go ahead and consider that to be an honest assesment of the "facts" if you wish. I can see bias when I read it and the ability to mention one "fact" without revealing all the additional "facts" behind it, makes this report pretty much drivel in my eyes, and bible in yours, as you have made clear numerous times that $150 is your price point. One wonders what on earth you're doing on this website.

He chastises Denon for not offering a $400 player.....Denon!!!
Hello, they have a $3,800 DVD player.

[Johnd]

[QUOTE]What he's doing is taking a fact, that the 5 free movies offer ended on 01.31.08, and insinuating that this happened because HD DVD was going away.

No. You inferred that all on your own.

I can see bias when I read it and the ability to mention one "fact" without revealing all the additional "facts" behind it, makes this report pretty much drivel in my eyes, and bible in yours, as you have made clear numerous times that $150 is your price point. One wonders what on earth you're doing on this website.

Hah! Well, for one, I'm trying to help people like you. :p;) And for the record, he did state that there could numerous reasons for this development, on which he cared not to extrapolate (or guess). Critical reading. Hmmm. And I considered this an easy read...and a good read. :p;)


He chastises Denon for not offering a $400 player.....Denon!!!
Hello, they have a $3,800 DVD player.

It is nice to have several price points...no?

[dobyblue]

Currently the lowest price on Amazon is basically 400$ [just searched and sorted by price low-to-high]. IIRC this price is higher than it was a month or two ago ....

Wow, during the Christmas and beyond shopping season?!? You don't say!

The BD-P1400 is available for $329 NEW on Amazon.

(Although this player is pretty friggin' slow, even for CD playback)

Sharp, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic and Philips all have new players coming out within the next few months. These players sold what they could over Christmas, I don't expect them to move much in price between now and the new units coming out.

[dobyblue]

It is nice to have several price points...no?

And Denon's cheapest DVD player is $169. How long after their first DVD player was released did it take them to get to this price point?

Denon has just released their first Blu-ray player. DW expects them to suddenly have a budget player out?

Please. It's like all the people who normally write articles have forgotten everything they've ever seen throughout the last 30 years of technology, except for people like Enderle who never learnt anything to begin with.

All of a sudden March is supposed to be the time of year when prices should drastically fall? Again, this analysis of Price Grabber is nothing more than sensationalistic rubbish from an HD DVD supporter/sore loser.

[TLS Guy]

EVERYTHING is going to go up thanks to oil/fuel prices...

And that's largely due to the dollar in free fall. We might actually have to learn to make products in the west again. What a novel idea! Trouble is all our good firms are now owned by foreigners. In case you had not noticed, America is for sale, and now it's a fire sale. Welcome to the worlds newest third world nation.

[Johnd]

And Denon's cheapest DVD player is $169. How long after their first DVD player was released did it take them to get to this price point?

Denon has just released their first Blu-ray player. DW expects them to suddenly have a budget player out?

Please. It's like all the people who normally write articles have forgotten everything they've ever seen throughout the last 30 years of technology, except for people like Enderle who never learnt anything to begin with.

All of a sudden March is supposed to be the time of year when prices should drastically fall? Again, this analysis of Price Grabber is nothing more than sensationalistic rubbish from an HD DVD supporter/sore loser.


Can we stick to the subject at hand? The demise of HD (which I have happily...almost greedily ;) cashed in on :p), and current BD pricing trends? Thank you.

[dobyblue]

Can we stick to the subject at hand?

Are you not reading my posts?

:confused:

[Johnd]

Are you not reading my posts?

:confused:

Yes. And post #32, your post, discussed DVD players and pricing. Extraneous.

[dobyblue]

Hey look, the Panasonic TH-50PZ700U was $2,099 at Christmas and now it's $2,299.

Holy ****, I can't believe it's gone up. I mean, I know there are new models coming out within the next few months, but did LCD give up? Did DLP give up? Well, why else would those prices have gone up?

It couldn't be because the CHRISTMAS SHOPPING SEASON IS OVER could it?

Who'd of thunk it?

Are you the thread police now Johnd? Only you decide what relevant to the topic at hand? Seems a little Orwellian to me.

[dobyblue]

Post #32 is perfectly relevant to debunking the current assesment of BD-player pricing and the conclusion that HD DVD's demise is going to start sending prices of players soaring.

It's just sad really to watch these people writing such opinionated scare-tactic pieces.

[Johnd]

Hey look, the Panasonic TH-50PZ700U was $2,099 at Christmas and now it's $2,299.

Holy ****, I can't believe it's gone up. I mean, I know there are new models coming out within the next few months, but did LCD give up? Did DLP give up? Well, why else would those prices have gone up?

It couldn't be because the CHRISTMAS SHOPPING SEASON IS OVER could it?

Who'd of thunk it?

Are you the thread police now Johnd? Only you decide what relevant to the topic at hand? Seems a little Orwellian to me.

LOL. I didn't realize you were so...emotional doby. ;)

Thread police? Me? Nah.

How is BD pricing not relevant to this forum, and why are you so bent about the reporting of such facts?

[Johnd]

Post #32 is perfectly relevant to debunking the current assesment of BD-player pricing and the conclusion that HD DVD's demise is going to start sending prices of players soaring.

It's just sad really to watch these people writing such opinionated scare-tactic pieces.

I think you're the only one getting "scared." It's just information doby. Read it, and take from it what you can, but this emotional roller coaster ride of yours is making me woozy. :p;)

[dobyblue]

I think you're the only one getting "scared." It's just information doby. Read it, and take from it what you can, but this emotional roller coaster ride of yours is making me woozy. :p;)

Wow, you're hilarious.

I've read it, but to suggest that I should just take from it what I can and not question anything, well that sounds a lot like Scientology to me and you're starting to act a lot like a Scientologist.

Don't question anything, or we'll start to question you.

"What are your crimes"

That's what your "you're emotional", "you're scared", "you're bent", "it's only facts" tactics are starting to come across as.

Excuse me if I like to think for myself and question that which I see as being a completely skewed article with an agenda.

[Johnd]

Wow, you're hilarious.

I've read it, but to suggest that I should just take from it what I can and not question anything, well that sounds a lot like Scientology to me and you're starting to act a lot like a Scientologist.

Don't question anything, or we'll start to question you.

"What are your crimes"

That's what your "you're emotional", "you're scared", "you're bent", "it's only facts" tactics are starting to come across as.

Excuse me if I like to think for myself and question that which I see as being a completely skewed article with an agenda.

LOL. :p;)

[dobyblue]

reporting

You give far too much credit.

[Johnd]

You give far too much credit.

Doby. The written word speaks for itself. Mr. Waratuke announced the sources of his info right in the report.

[dobyblue]

LOL. :p;)

Again, you present no information yourself other than "it's facts", so this conversation has become tiresome.

I've presented enough information that the normal thinkers on this board will be able to see through the "facts" for what they are, fearmongering.

Looking back through your posts in this thread, they present no information at all, they are merely critical of anyone providing an assesment of the article in the OP without stating reasons why.

That's not exactly a debate, it's misdirection. When you want to actually start addressing some of the points I'm making, I'll continue my conversation with you. Until then, say hi to Xenu for me.

[dobyblue]

Doby. The written word speaks for itself. Mr. Waratuke announced the sources of his info right in the report.

See what I mean? You still can't address any of MY points.

[Johnd]

Again, you present no information yourself other than "it's facts", so this conversation has become tiresome.

I've presented enough information that the normal thinkers on this board will be able to see through the "facts" for what they are, fearmongering.

Looking back through your posts in this thread, they present no information at all, they are merely critical of anyone providing an assesment of the article in the OP without stating reasons why.

That's not exactly a debate, it's misdirection. When you want to actually start addressing some of the points I'm making, I'll continue my conversation with you. Until then, say hi to Xenu for me.

No. Mr. Waratuke's report speaks for itself, and is backed by credible data. Why do I need to inject my own information to his report?

[Johnd]

See what I mean? You still can't address any of MY points.

??? :confused:

Can't? Don't be so...judgmental.

If I can't, it's because you have not made them plain, or I don't consider it worthwhile. To what would you like me to respond?

[dobyblue]

??? :confused:

Can't? Don't be so...judgmental.

If I can't, it's because you have not made them plain, or I don't consider it worthwhile. To what would you like me to respond?

1) To how every other technology experiences similar price fluctuations at this time of year after the Christmas shopping and two/three week period thereafter has concluded.

It happens every year!

2) To how Denon is chastised for having no cheap BD player on the market....one month after they released their VERY FIRST model of transport and standalone player.

3) To how most of the manufacturers have new models coming out over the next few months with lower MSRP's than any of their current models, which is conveniently ignored despite these models all coming to the end of their lifespan.

[dobyblue]

4) How come there is no mention AT ALL of the fact that the MSRP has not changed on any of these players.

5) Why, despite ignoring this, the BDA is blamed (called a Cartel) for the pricing fluctuations and not the retailers that set their own pricing.

[Johnd]

1) To how every other technology experiences similar price fluctuations at this time of year after the Christmas shopping and two/three week period thereafter has concluded.

It happens every year!

2) To how Denon is chastised for having no cheap BD player on the market....one month after they released their VERY FIRST model of transport and standalone player.

3) To how most of the manufacturers have new models coming out over the next few months with lower MSRP's than any of their current models, which is conveniently ignored despite these models all coming to the end of their lifespan.

1) Perhaps.
2) Chastised? I don't know anything about that...and I'm not holding my breath for Denon's new cheap BD player. I'm currently set. :p
3) Certainly "most" of last year's models decrease in price when the new models become available. At least as I perceive it, that's usually the case.

[dobyblue]

2) Because you're familiar with Denon and don't pretend not to be, unlike this editorial.
3) When they're released, we'll watch and see then.

[Johnd]

2) Because you're familiar with Denon and don't pretend not to be, unlike this editorial.
3) When they're released, we'll watch and see then.

I am familar with Denon. I'm quite happy with my 5803, my 2900, and my old 5000 and 1600. But I'm not about to sit on my haunches and wait for a $400 Denon BD player, when I have bought two flagship HD players, and amassed 70 HD discs for twice that amount. Denon puts out some great products, but I'm really not in the game anymore for the proximate future.

I'm not unlike this editorial? Well, I'm not a piece of paper, nor a report, nor a blog, so you must mean I have the attributes of a well-written report. Thank you. I'm plain-spoken, I speak the facts, and I back up my words with credible sources. I take that as a compliment. Thanks Doby.

[dobyblue]

Points 4) and 5) are on the last page!

As for speaking the facts, I wouldn't get too carried away. You've called my truthfulness into question numerous times stating that the pricing I'm suggesting has been available to those watching Blu-ray prices is not true, going as far as calling for receipts to be scanned. You've even questioned that the Price Grabber ad I scanned was not real.

You've also just stated that for $800 you got two flagship players (although I'd argue that the only flagship player released was the XA2) and 70 discs. Without any hardware at all, that puts all 70 of your discs at $11.42. If your flagship players were even $99 each, that puts all 70 of your titles at $8.57/each. Is this more of the plain-spoken facts?

You got an HD-A35 for well under Toshiba's cost, which you choose to ignore anytime you mention how "cheap" it was for you to get into HD.

Let's not ignore the fact that Toshiba's hardware pricing amongst other things is the reason why they're facing a loss of over 1 Billion on HD DVD. I don't hold it against the BD CE's for not wanting to follow this business model.

You're unlike this editorial in the sense that you're now acknowledging that it's foolish to think Denon is going to have a sub-$400 Blu-ray model available on the market as their first offering, whereas the editorial seems to feel that it's an injustice that this hasn't happened.

[Seth=L]

I don't understand why the Blu-ray camp has it in their head that now that HD DVD is dead they can justify raising their prices. Blu-ray's biggest competitor is so much cheaper than Blu-ray that anyone with a head on their shoulders and/or a light wallet is going to keep on buying the competing format. You aren't going to get most consumers to care about Blu-ray by jacking up prices, are they trying to go the way of Laserdisc? It seems they are making an effort to ruin themselves. If HD DVD had won the HD format war the market would be flooded with low priced HD DVD players and movies. Stupid studios, stupid Blu-ray, stupid, stupid, stupid. I am starting to think about supporting HD-DL, even though I hate the idea.

[Johnd]

Whoooa. I'm not going to let you get away with this.


[QUOTE]As for speaking the facts, I wouldn't get too carried away. You've called my truthfulness into question numerous times stating that the pricing I'm suggesting has been available to those watching Blu-ray prices is not true, going as far as calling for receipts to be scanned. You've even questioned that the Price Grabber ad I scanned was not real.

Never happened. The scan of the photo you initally showed was not linked, nor did it provide the condition of the player (new or refurb), nor did it provide the retailer. Only when I called you on these issues did you then relay the information. Don't twist it into something it's not.

You've also just stated that for $800 you got two flagship players (although I'd argue that the only flagship player released was the XA2) and 70 discs. Without any hardware at all, that puts all 70 of your discs at $11.42. If your flagship players were even $99 each, that puts all 70 of your titles at $8.57/each. Is this more of the plain-spoken facts?

First, you are again incorrect. Toshiba has put out more flagship HD players than the XA2, though, some arguably claim that the XA2 is the best HD flagship player by Toshiba. Let me help you with the math professor. ;) Allow me to first state that this is incredibly ironic as you just accused Mr. Waratuke of intentionally ommitting the BD freebies out of his calculus (in his report). Ironic indeed. Or incredibly self serving, and misleading. The math is as follows (including my initial A3 purchase):

2 A35's $169 per w/ 18 movies
1 A3 for $200 w/ 10 movies and $100 giftcard, which has bought me another 9 movies
Assorted purchases (20-25 titles..and counting :p:D) from BB and DDD @ $8- $12 per title
PE (4 discs) for $29
HP and UM @ Amazon (splurge :p...10 movies...14 discs) for $121

These deals, btw, are (and have been) all over the internet. It's not like I'm making them up.


You got an HD-A35 for well under Toshiba's cost, which you choose to ignore anytime you mention how "cheap" it was for you to get into HD.

Yes, and that makes me smile. :p:D Why does it make you so angry? :mad:

Let's not ignore the fact that Toshiba's hardware pricing amongst other things is the reason why they're facing a loss of over 1 Billion on HD DVD. I don't hold it against the BD CE's for not wanting to follow this business model.

Well, I'm not in this game to make Toshiba prosper, am I? :p Are you?

You're unlike this editorial in the sense that you're now acknowledging that it's foolish to think Denon is going to have a sub-$400 Blu-ray model available on the market as their first offering, whereas the editorial seems to feel that it's an injustice that this hasn't happened.

Injustice? That's injustice? I like my reason better of why I'm like a well-written editorial. :p

[dobyblue]

Whoooa. I'm not going to let you get away with this.
Never happened. The scan of the photo you initally showed was not linked, nor did it provide the condition of the player (new or refurb), nor did it provide the retailer. Only when I called you on these issues did you then relay the information. Don't twist it into something it's not.
Actually I will, because it is something it is!!
(huh?)


What you said was....

Btw: where do you propose we find a BDP1400 for $229 (now, as your ad suggests)? Refurbs are more than that.


You said "refurbs are more that that" - it's right there. Obviously refurbs are not more than that.
Plus the topic was price grabber and I stated:

"Oddly enough the current lowest prices on Price Grabber are:

Samsung BD-P1400 - $352
Sharp BD-HP20U - $350
Sony BDP-S300 - $357
Panasonic DMP-BD30 - $414

..and the first thing you see on the site is:"

So if you're seriously suggesting that
The scan of the photo you initally showed was not linked, nor did it provide the condition of the player (new or refurb), nor did it provide the retailer.

..then I believe you're not paying the slightest bit of attention or are just flat out lying to try and make a point, which you're failing miserably in doing...as usual.

Allow me to first state that this is incredibly ironic as you just accused Mr. Waratuke of intentionally ommitting the BD freebies out of his calculus (in his report). Ironic indeed.
What are you talking about? First you use the incredibly immature insult that I must be 15, not the first time you've done this, but then you start making stuff up? PLease go ahead and show me where I stated that Waratuke intentionally ommitted the BD freebies out of his report! I did no such thing, nor insinuated, or even commented on, in any way shape or form. What I stated was that Waratuke mentioned the 5-free disc offer ended because HD DVD went away, without mentioning that the 5-free disc offer ended when it had been scheduled several months earlier to end.

The math is as follows
PE (4 discs) for $29

Silly me, you're now including every single disc in your calculations. Nice job. It's a wonder you're not counting Combo discs twice as they contain two copies of the movie.

[Johnd]

Well, you failed to initially state that the item was a refurb, nor did you provide a link for the retailer...until I called you on it. Refurb...no thanks. That just goes to show the problems BD has had.

And I never stated that you "must be 15." I asked if you were. It's an open ended question. Like: "Are you 15 minutes from home", or "Are you 15 pounds overweight?

And of course I'm including "every disc in my calculus." Should I not? Did I ever state that I would only include old titles, new titles or multiple discs?

You're not so foolish as to believe that I didn't buy them, are you? Pssssst. They're not really "free" you know. The simple fact of the matter is I have outlayed about $800 for two flagship HD players, and 70 titles...and that's a fact. :)

[dobyblue]

nor did you provide a link for the retailer...until I called you on it.

Erm...what? What part of "the current lowest prices on Price Grabber" do you conclude is me not providing the retailer? The fact that I didn't manually type out w-w-w-.-p-r-i-c-e-g-r-a-b-b-e-r-.-c-o-m?

You're not new to Price Grabber are you?

[dobyblue]

Sorry to go off topic here for a second John, but do you have the original Servo 15 or the v2 model...and is it your current main HT sub?

[Johnd]

Sorry to go off topic here for a second John, but do you have the original Servo 15 or the v2 model...and is it your current main HT sub?

Servo v2, and yes, it is my mainstay. Why?

[Johnd]

Erm...what? What part of "the current lowest prices on Price Grabber" do you conclude is me not providing the retailer? The fact that I didn't manually type out w-w-w-.-p-r-i-c-e-g-r-a-b-b-e-r-.-c-o-m?

You're not new to Price Grabber are you?

No. I'm not going to do that. You went to the trouble of posting a beautiful scan of the ad in full color, but initially failed to state that it was a refurb (uggghh...no thanks), and who the retailer was. Why would I go hunting down the things you post, particularly when I'm clearly not in the market?

[dobyblue]

Servo v2, and yes, it is my mainstay. Why?

Me too, and I think it's absolutely incredible.

No. I'm not going to do that. You went to the trouble of posting a beautiful scan of the ad in full color, but initially failed to state that it was a refurb (uggghh...no thanks), and who the retailer was. Why would I go hunting down the things you post, particularly when I'm clearly not in the market?

You don't need to hunt down anything. You're saying I wasn't "upfront" about who the retailer was, when I clearly stated that it was ON PRICEGRABBER and have not edited that post since. So you're wrong, I was not trying to be deceitful at all, I merely showed a link of what was on their front page to juxtapose the editorial about how Blu-ray hardware prices are on the rise.

There was no clak and dagger routine at all.

You're saying you "called me on it" - on what exactly?

(and it was no trouble to scan it, I merely hit "Print Screen" and went into Paint and pressed "Paste")

[Johnd]

Me too, and I think it's absolutely incredible.



You don't need to hunt down anything. You're saying I wasn't "upfront" about who the retailer was, when I clearly stated that it was ON PRICEGRABBER and have not edited that post since. So you're wrong, I was not trying to be deceitful at all, I merely showed a link of what was on their front page to juxtapose the editorial about how Blu-ray hardware prices are on the rise.

There was no clak and dagger routine at all.

You're saying you "called me on it" - on what exactly?

(and it was no trouble to scan it, I merely hit "Print Screen" and went into Paint and pressed "Paste")


I'm not remotely suggesting that you were intentionally being deceptive doby. Boy oh boy. Inference. That was not plain (refurb, retailer) in the initial post...that's all.

Yes. The servo 15 v2 is an awesome sub. I remain truly amazed, and impressed with its performance. You have one too? Hey, we have something(s) in common!!! Perhaps we can delve into our commonalities at some juncture? But I must admit, it is from our (people's...not just your's and mine) differences that we [can] learn most. Truly. ;)

[dobyblue]

Yes I picked one up in December 2006. To date it is the speaker I am most happy about purchasing.

I probably listen to around 60-70% music (SACD/DVD-A, etc.) in my HT and the v2 has made it oh so much more enjoyable.

:)

[Johnd]

Yes I picked one up in December 2006. To date it is the speaker I am most happy about purchasing.

I probably listen to around 60-70% music (SACD/DVD-A, etc.) in my HT and the v2 has made it oh so much more enjoyable.

:)

Yeah, I have never second guessed the purchase of my servo. Great sub. Extension, accuracy and db. It's a frickin tank at...what? 115 lbs? Enjoy your weekend dobyblue. :)