Yet another "my system" post

[Tom Andry]

Denon 3805
Sony something-or-another DVD
Axiom 22ti(x2) VP100, QS4(x2), QS8(x2), EP500 .
POS JVC TV (like 10 years old)
DIY absorption panels
DIY component stand

 

[jaxvon]

How does your system sound? Do those M22Ti speakers really fill that room?

 

[Tom Andry]

I'm still tweaking the sound right now. Just this weekend I've gotten the bass a little more balanced with the rest of the system. I've got the Rives CD on order and once that comes in, I'm sure I'll get everything dialed in a little better.

The room is 12.5 by 14.5 by 8. The 22ti's do great. Now, the EP500 has to be reigned in quite a bit to keep from shaking the drywall off the studs! Someone once said that you can never have too much sub. I'm pushing the limits of that statement.

 

[zumbo]

Doesn't look like you have the room, but I think your mains, center, and sub need to be moved. IMO, the front line of speakers need to be at least a foot out from the wall. And, the sub needs to be turned at an angle firing to the back right corner. The mains also need some room to the sides. They don't need to be up against the entertainment center. That huge entertainment center is messing with the sound.

I got rid of my large entertainment center and replaced it with an audio rack and tv stand. It was amazing how much this did for the audio quality.

Click here.

I use this media rack. here It looks big, but it is very small. Check the dimensions.

 

[shokhead]

Looks like the tv and speakers need to be higher. Tweeters to ear level.

 

[Takeereasy]

I think it looks awesome. Can't comment on the techie stuff but it does seem like the entertainment center is a little big and you could do a little more in there with a smaller one. I really really like the seating. That is one heck of a nice HT you've got brewing there mrnomas, I bet the friends like it and even your wife would have a hard time complaining.

 

[zumbo]

Oh yes. VERY nice room.

 

[Tom Andry]

The mains are about 18" off the back wall so plenty of room there. I've measured and the tweeters are at ear height (hard to tell from the pics).

I'll try repositioning the sub. Thanks for the suggestion.

I agree that the entertainment center is too big; however the wife loves it and insists on keeping it in the room for now. I've pulled the mains and center a few inches out from the front of the entertainment center to help the imaging. I tested this by seating my wife on the couch, playing a cd in Matrix mode (L,R,Sub), and asking her where the sound was coming from. She pointed to the center channel.

The TV is too low. I’d raise it but it is part of my evil plot to convince my wife to upgrade the TV. My wife and I have been discussing upgrading the display for a while now. One of those "I love you" moments was when I was mentioning to my wife that a front projection system would be great but it was out of the running because of expense and my wife interrupted and said, "Yeah, but, that's what I want."

Sniff, Sniff. I love you honey.

Oh well. All this equipment is new and we have many more home improvement projects to complete before she'll consider a couple grand for a projector but at least it's on the horizon.

 

[shokhead]

Now the fun part starts.

 

[Tom Andry]

I really really like the seating.

Actually, the seating was the major factor convincing my wife to purchase all the new equipment! We had been searching for a new couch for a couple of months when we walked into a store with cinema seating. My wife instantly fell in love with the center loveseat recliner and decided to purchase a set. By the time we got home from the store she said, "Well, now that the couch is on order, maybe we should go ahead and get the speakers."

Her next sentence inquired about my location as I had run (not walked) to the computer room to order the Axioms .

 

[zumbo]

Good deal. The picture is deceiving.

 

[Takeereasy]

"Well, now that the couch is on order, maybe we should go ahead and get the speakers."

Youve got a keeper there nomas.

 

[Audiosouse]

Awsome, Clean, How'd You Wire Surrounds?

Awsome setup mrnomas. You're wife have any hot sisters interested in a young, handsome HT loving man? You wouldn't mind if your new brother-in-law hangs out...like...every day at your house would you?

Is the EP500 really that good? I figured Axiom had enough of "I love your speakers but I bought a Hsu or SVS sub instead"...hence EP500/600.

Very clean install, how'd you manage to wire the surrounds? Did you pre-wire before dry wall? If not, I'd love to know how you accomplished such a clean install.

 

[Tom Andry]

Is the EP500 really that good?

Let's put it this way, I really don't see the need for those tactile transducers that people buy all the time. Seriously, in a room my size (for that matter, in a house this small) the EP500 is stupidly loud. I've measured down to 18 Hz at fairly low volume levels. I had always planned on getting an SVS 20-39 PC+ but every time I spoke to Axiom about my impending speaker purchase, they talked me down to smaller speakers (m22's over m60's, qs4's over qs8's for rear surrounds, vp100 over vp150). Always with the same argument, "In your room, you won't be able to tell a difference sonically." Hell, by my calculations they saved me around $700. When you factor in the cost of the ep500 minus the discounts for the outlet and 5+ items, and add to the SVS the cost of shipping, the cost was a wash. So I decided to give Axiom a shot (even though I love the water heater sub look). I don't regret it a bit. My only complaint is that it plays so loud and so low, that I literally have to keep it reigned way in or it vibrates EVERYTHING. Like, everything in the room including the walls, furniture, wife, dog, fridge in the kitchen, cars in the garage, trees, etc. It will literally pressurize your ears. Can feel like a vice on your head if you turn it up too much.

how'd you manage to wire the surrounds?

I have a friend, Jimmy. He’s good with stuff. I’m not. I was asking him how to run the wire through the walls and he offered to come over and “help.” Basically, I mounted the speakers before he arrived, cut the holes in the walls behind the wall mounted surround speakers, and he did all the drilling and fishing of wire. It’s not really all that hard if you have someone to help you. I could have done the work myself but with a 1.5 year old, my wife needed to be watching him while Jimmy and I did all the work. The hard part was trying locating the correct spot in the attic. Once you find the room from above, you drill through the 2 by 4 at the top of the wall, send the wire down (for the surrounds Jimmy pushed it through and I grabbed it, for the center mounting plate by the receiver, we used fish tape), and hook everything up. I used a Leviton Quikport panel mounted behind the receiver for my outgoing connections. I bought enough wire and wall plates to double wire everything but my wife nixed it at the last minute (see she’s not perfect). I was hoping to have extra connections incase I wanted to demo new speakers (perhaps for review), or add more speakers to my system. My wife didn’t want plates on the walls near (or even behind) the surrounds and I didn’t want to ask Jimmy to do double the work. If I want to go back and add additional connections, Jimmy left enough wire on one run so that I could use it to pull wire to the main panel if I wanted to. Because I’m sure someone will ask, I ran 12ga Belden I got from Westlake Electronics for 17 cents a foot.

 

[Tom Andry]

You're wife have any hot sisters interested in a young, handsome HT loving man? You wouldn't mind if your new brother-in-law hangs out...like...every day at your house would you?

My wife doesn't have any sisters hot or otherwise, however, we always welcome HT nuts to come over and enjoy our theater. I'm just looking for an excuse to play something loud and my wife wants to justify her purchase.

 

[Audiosouse]

Wish I was closer

Wish I was closer, I'd take you up on the offer with popcorn and beer in hand!

I guess it's easier when you've got attic over you. My wife wouldn't understand why I'd need to drill holes in the bedroom floors. When I replace the carpet though, it's on!

Women...can't live with 'em.
- Norm Peterson

 

[Tom Andry]

Another wire fishing solution that I toyed with was pulling up the baseboards, drilling a hole behind the baseboard, and fishing the wire up the wall. You could then replace the baseboard with some of the baseboards that is built with a channel for wires. Check out this link.

 

[neznarf]

VERY similar situation; just bought entertainment center

Just bought similar entertainment center with armoire for a grand after
much trial and tribulation. Ready to order similar Axiom setup (ep350, qs8s).
Similar room size, a foot narrower; pitched ceiling.

1. I thought I would position my system on the short wall, but now have
doubts after seeing your pics and zumbo's response.
2. Man at Axiom says even tho I have 7.1, I should set up only 5.1
because rears will add no benefit. Sides will fill the room. He also said
he prefers the long-way setup.

So (based on your experience thus far):

Should I consider returning entertainment center?
1. Have you noticed any substantial differences when changing
speaker placements?
2. Do you notice sound problems because of all the wood?

Should I place system on long wall?
Are you happy with 7.1 speaker system?

I appreciate any input.

 

[Tom Andry]

1. I thought I would position my system on the short wall, but now have
doubts after seeing your pics and zumbo's response.
2. Man at Axiom says even tho I have 7.1, I should set up only 5.1
because rears will add no benefit. Sides will fill the room. He also said
he prefers the long-way setup.

So (based on your experience thus far):

Should I consider returning entertainment center?
3. Have you noticed any substantial differences when changing
speaker placements?
4. Do you notice sound problems because of all the wood?

Should I place system on long wall?
Are you happy with 7.1 speaker system?

Note - I renumbered your questions

1) Short wall it probably best. Is it an enclosed room? Why would you want it on the long wall? Reduce reflections? More room for the entertainment center? Post a pic with more description and perhaps we (assuming others get involved) can help. You'll also get more responses in the Room Acoustics forum.

2) He's probably right (especially if you set up on the long wall) though I wouldn't give up my rear surrounds for anything. I think they are great.

3) Absolutely. You've got to get the tweeters to ear level on the mains (when I sit on the floor the sound is significantly different). Toeing in (angling toward you) has affected the sound and I played with it quite a bit before getting it right. Surround speaker height is a little high in my set up (by room constraints) but I've been happy with the placements (see here for angles and suggestions). The biggest thing is the sub. Many advocate corner placement. In my room that was all wrong. Being almost a box, the reinforcement from the corner accentuated the peaks and nulls. The best location would be right under the TV but the sub is not shielded so until I upgrade - no can do. I moved the sub midway on the side wall. Made a huge difference.

4) I built DIY absorbers (see here) and those take care of a lot of my problems. I have the front of the right, left, and center speakers a little in front of the entertainment center so no. I do have problems with this cheap light fixture in the hallway outside rattling a certain bass frequencies...but that's not really a problem – more of a fun trick to impress guests with .

Lastly, getting rid of the entertainment center was never an option for me. It is easy to sit here, hundreds or thousands of miles away, suggesting this or that from behind the safety of a computer. Most of the suggestions on this site are great – some are great but undoable because of your situation. If you have the money to build a perfect room – by all means, go ahead, and invite me over…I’ll bring the beer. But most of us can’t do that – so we come here to get advice on how to optimize what we have.

So you said, “Just bought similar entertainment center with armoire for a grand after much trial and tribulation.” Very, very, very, very few rooms are perfect (if you read the latest Axiom visit, you’ll see that one of Gene’s complaints was that their listening room was so bad). If you like the entertainment center, make it work for you. It may affect the sound, but hey, you have to live in that house too right?

 

[neznarf]

Excellent.
Thank you.