Yamaha's Cinema DSP?

[supervij]

I've got a Yamaha RX-V750 receiver, and have been wondering about the difference between its "surround standard" and its "surround enhanced". The difference between the two, according to my manual, is that the latter has Cinema DSP enhanced processing. And the definition of "Cinema DSP", again, according to my manual, is the following: "Since the Dolby Surround and DTS systems were originally designed for use in movie theatres, their effect is best felt in a theatre having many speakers and designed for acoustic effects. Since home conditions, such as room size, wall material, number of speakers, and so on, can differ so widely, it's inevitable that there differences in the sound heard as well. Based on a wealth of actually measured data, YAMAHA CINEMA DSP uses YAMAHA original sound field technology to combine Dolby Pro Logic, Dolby Digital and DTS systems to provide the visual and audio experience of movie theatre in the listening room of your own home."

There's no mention of what this "wealth of actually measured data" is, and to be honest, their definition sounds like a lot of nonsense. I've listened to chapters of various movies using first surround standard, then surround enhanced, and my non-golden ears really can't discern the difference. Has anyone done the same and actually heard a difference? What is the difference between the two?

cheers,
supervij

 

[MDS]

I don't own a Yamaha but from reading the manuals and discussions on various forums I think I can tell the difference between 'surround standard' and 'surround enhanced'. Many receivers have similar features but use slightly different terms.

Surround standard - This is 'straight' processing; ie if you are playing a Dolby Digital track, it uses the Dolby Digital decoder; nothing more, nothing less.

Surround enhanced - This allows you to layer their own proprietary processing (Cinema DSP) on top of the straight decoder. So if you are playing a DD track, it uses the DD decoder, but also applies Cinema DSP (and possibly others).

So what is Cinema DSP? The same thing all the other brands offer, although the algorithm is probably slightly different. Onkyo has 'CineFilter'. THX certified receivers offer Re-EQ. They are all slightly different algorithms with the common goal of eliminating perceived problems with playing back material originally mixed for the theater in a home environment. For one thing, they roll off high frequencies because material originally mixed for a large theater can sound too 'bright' in a small living room. Given that Yamaha is one brand that includes dozens of DSP algorithms in their receiver, its a good bet that Cinema DSP also does things like add reverb or use aggressive steering techniques to make the sound more enveloping.

None of the brands really tell you in the manual exactly what they do. We are supposed to just accept 'it compensates for home conditions, such as room size, wall material, number of speakers, and so on' as the quote from the manual says.

I personally find no use for all these extra DSP modes, but some people like them alot. It's one of those 'try it and see if you like it' kind of things.

 

[Audioholics]

I think you have an incorrect view of what Yamaha DSP does and are confusing it with YPAO among other things. Yamaha's has its own custom (i.e. no one else has it) DSP settings that take actual measurements from varying room environments and attempts to simulate those rooms in your listening space. Most people aren't aware of the many customization options to get that sound tweaked, but they are quite extensive compared to other brands' DSP.

Most other manufacturers offer a token DSP setting or two - Yamaha is actually reknowned for theirs.

Then there is Yamaha's CinemaDSP To get the most out of their CinemaDSP settings, however, you'll want to have Presence speakers connected to your system. Without them the CinemaDSP is not even nearly as impressive, in my opinion, though it still applies a different cinematic and spacious effect (reverb is part of this).

CinemaDSP also has the advantage of making average speakers sound more like a movie theater environment, with a widened soundstage and a more cinematic experience overall. For those of us with speakers that already image wide, or perhaps with better rooms that allow the soundstage to be rather large, CinemaDSP may not be as significant.

Stick a Yamaha beside any other manufacturer, however and you will quickly see that Yamaha has some very useful and advantageous DSP, while the other manufacturers add them on almost as afterthought because it's expected.

 

[supervij]

I guess I never really understood the point. I mean, if Sony (or whatever film company) were transferring their movie onto a DVD, then they're well aware that they're transferring a movie for a living room setting, so wouldn't they normally adjust any audio stuff that actually needs it?

I don't use presence speakers, Clint, so is there no point in using the surround enhanced mode for movies? My Athenas may be considered low-end to some, but to me, they get the job done and then some. The soundstage has always sounded wide and cinema-like.

I have used some of their Cinema DSP modes for poorly recorded VHS stuff, and it's helped out a fair bit. But for DVDs, I just haven't heard much difference. I'll try it out some more, but so far it seems mostly one and the same. Thanks for the help, guys.

cheers,
supervij

 

[MDS]

Clint,
I'm not sure if you were referring to my comments or not, but I certainly didn't mean to confuse CinemaDSP with YPAO. I know the difference - YPAO is not a DSP mode.

I may have incorrectly assumed that CinemaDSP was only comparable to cine filter and re-eq type schemes that are meant to tame the highs.

Are you saying that Yamaha's Cinema DSP is a blanket term they use to encompass ALL of their DSP modes, like Sci-Fi, Adventure, Rock, Hall, etc? I know DSP modes are meant to simulate a certain venue by mimicking the characteristics of that venue. I personally don't care for them. Onkyo only offers 5 DSP modes, and that is 5 more than I would ever use.

 

[Audioholics]

We're probably going to write something up about this because it comes up quite frequently. CinemaDSP is a series of DSP modes provided by Yamaha for DVD movie playback. It includes, Adventure, General, Sci-Fi, etc... In addition to that there are room DSP modes that mimic certain venues and such. It's all very cool in its own way.

Most of my comments had to do with CinemaDSP in particular, especially in conjunction with the Presence channels which people also misunderstand.

Stay tuned...

 

[BobbyT]

I'll add my .02 on enhanced. Enhanced is proprietary to Yamaha. It layers over whatever surround procesing mode you have selected(DD, DTS, DPLx). All it does is enhance the sound field a little. It's subtle but it is noticeable. I like it and layer it over evrything. It can be layered over DPL2x even when that is being layered over DD and DTS.

 

[WooHoo]

I just watched "Hostage" last night on DVD. I flipped a few times between Standard and Enhanced mode and the difference was dramatic! It's Enhanced for me when it comes to movies with a lot of action and effects.

 

[Doug917]

Anyone who has a decent Yamaha or a Lexicon receiver/processor should understand the value of CinemaDSP processing. These two brands have the best DSP effects hands down. Any other brands and I dare not even turn the effects on. I can personally say the Yammy 2500 with presence speakers and DSP engaged is an entirely different experience than straight processing.

 

[mfabien]

I just watched "Hostage" last night on DVD. I flipped a few times between Standard and Enhanced mode and the difference was dramatic! It's Enhanced for me when it comes to movies with a lot of action and effects.

For "Hostage" (DD only for surround) I used Adventure as a DSP mode in my Yamaha.

For a concert from HDTV, I use Spectacle as a DSP mode or Pro Log Music as a straight mode.

For a concert on DVD with DTS surround audio selection or DTS Music discs, I use straight DTS.

For music videos from SD TV signal, I use "Pro Log Music"

For CD's I either use DSP and I may select "Hall" or "Spectacle" or (without DSP) straight with Pro Log Music or Enhanced. Much variation for CD's.

 

[SDDSfan]

edit this please

 

[mfabien]

Sure, today I have an HD-A1 player and use 5.1 multichannel analogs for all DVD and HD DVD viewing and music listening. CD's on this player is exceptionally good. The Yamaha receiver is simply used a passthrough.

 

[Gail Smith]

Speaker issues

Which button on the receiver works the speakers?
What are all the buttons for?

 

[Gail Smith]

Speaker issues

Which button on the receiver works the speakers?
What are all the buttons for?

 

[Gail Smith]

Speaker Issues

I have a Yamaha Natural Sound AV Receiver/ RX-V383 Cinema DSP receiver
DTS digital sound and I would like to know how to set up the speakers and what are the other buttons for?

 

[LAB3]

I have a Yamaha Natural Sound AV Receiver/ RX-V383 Cinema DSP receiver
DTS digital sound and I would like to know how to set up the speakers and what are the other buttons for?

I have owned several Yamaha AVR but not your model. If you you do not

have the Owners manual google your model and click on the Yamaha.com and down load it. You have some reading to do if it has YPAO to adjust the speakers. Every remote is different so not sure what speaker buttons are on
your remote.