Yamaha YPAO Confirmation

Q

qwaven

Audioholic Intern
Hi there,

I'm wondering if anyone has any info on what the Yamaha YPAO light actually means? And possibly further information on what I should set (if still applicable)

So more recently I had setup my AVR manually as I couldn't find the mic. Naturally the YPAO light is off when doing this.

I found the mic so I ran the entire auto setup again. (see attached screenshot for checks)

So now the YPAO light is on. (see attached picture)

From some little info's I've read they seem to suggest that when YPAO is on it will automatically adjust sound for optimal listening.

What I am not clear about is the actual purpose of the light being on. Is this actually doing something like adjusting the audio output depending on the source? Or is the only purpose to indicate that the setup was done with the mic?

If I adjust ANYTHING, the light will turn off. I'm not sure if I should really care or not.

Now originally I had done some reading on what kind of settings I should use such as those found here: https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-calibration/a-v-receiver-setup-crossover-distance-level-eq

Seems to possibly conflict with what YPAO did.

My speakers are all set to large. Which is mostly what I had before also with the exception my center was small.
But more importantly I am interested in the crossover setting. My AVR has one crossover for all speakers and YPAO set it to 40Hz. (see attached picture) which previously I had set to 90Hz.
I'm not really sure which is better?
My front and surrounds should all be pretty capable to get pretty low but the center I believe is rated for 80Hz.

So if I adjust this, YPAO light goes off and I'm not 100% clear if thats still good and/or if I should trust the YPAO crossover settings?

Thoughts? Comments?
 

Attachments

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
If you setup your avr with the mic and YPAO it set up not just basic level and delay but also some equalization. Can you turn YPAO off? Or with Yamaha do you just use certain modes?

If you set up your speakers as large that essentially means do not use bass management, altho some avrs can use a double bass setting to do both large and set a crossover at the same time. Think Yamaha calls it Extra Bass. If you have a universal crossover I'd start with 80 and go up and down from there to taste and I'd turn off the extra bass personally. You do have a sub I assume....
 
Q

qwaven

Audioholic Intern
Thanks for the reply.

I do not think I can simply turn it off but if I adjust something like speaker level the icon will turn off and not come back on without running the auto setup or using the auto set (restore previous setting feature)

Or another example if I adjust the crossover the YPAO will no longer be illuminated. Which is why I am wondering what exactly that means. Is it just Yamaha saying we no longer take "responsibility" for the tuning of your system because you have changed something? Or would I be potentially losing something by not having this illuminated?

I do have the "extra bass" I think you are referring to. (attached a pic)
I have this set to both.

and yes I do have a sub, reasonably decent for the size of my system I think.

For what it is worth I can't really complain a lot about the sound unless of course issues with the source. There are times that I might perhaps boost the center channel but generally speaking so far its not bad for doing almost nothing to setup. If anything I'd guess I hear (notice) my sub less than I did before as if I understand more bass would be coming out the front's instead of offloading to the sub with the lower crossover?

Cheers!
 

Attachments

Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Audioholic
With this model I think an early version of ypao from the looks of your pictures as the display looks like an older version of the menu. I would manually set the levels and distance and definitely raise the crossover up to at least 80hz for starters depending on the rest of your equipment and I’d set everything to small first . Then listen to some music tracks and definitely play a few movies then if needed make small adjustments from there .
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for the reply.

I do not think I can simply turn it off but if I adjust something like speaker level the icon will turn off and not come back on without running the auto setup or using the auto set (restore previous setting feature)

Or another example if I adjust the crossover the YPAO will no longer be illuminated. Which is why I am wondering what exactly that means. Is it just Yamaha saying we no longer take "responsibility" for the tuning of your system because you have changed something? Or would I be potentially losing something by not having this illuminated?

I do have the "extra bass" I think you are referring to. (attached a pic)
I have this set to both.

and yes I do have a sub, reasonably decent for the size of my system I think.

For what it is worth I can't really complain a lot about the sound unless of course issues with the source. There are times that I might perhaps boost the center channel but generally speaking so far its not bad for doing almost nothing to setup. If anything I'd guess I hear (notice) my sub less than I did before as if I understand more bass would be coming out the front's instead of offloading to the sub with the lower crossover?

Cheers!
I'd assume when the YPAO light is off it would mean the equalization is no longer being applied, but would think it would retain your level/delay settings. What Yamaha model is it? Many times post setup routines like YPAO/Audyssey folks will up the sub level a bit rather than the flat response it is aiming at....and for some dialog some will also raise center level (but you might look at placement, too).

Yes, if you turn off double bass you no longer would have that duplication/overlap of frequencies in the mains and the bass would be redirected (i.e. managed) to the sub. More a matter of preference than anything....
 
Q

qwaven

Audioholic Intern
Hi all thanks for your replies.

The AVR is the Yamaha Natural Sound HTR-6190 7.1x100w (I am running 5.1)
So yes I would imagine there are many newer editions since this came out. :)

But it works and supports just about any audio format before atmos/dts-x so have not really found a good reason to upgrade it.

As for speakers:
-Front: JVC SP-7500 - can't seem to find any Hz rating for them. They say they can do 120w.
-Side surround: Sony SS-MB300H - say they are rated for 140w 50hz-50khz
-Center: JBL Northbridge N-Center II - possibly 150w with 80Hz
-Sub: Sony SA-WX700 250 watt amp w/ dual 10" woofers 20Hz-200Hz

Would any of the above info change any recommendations and/or what is the purpose of the changes?

Cheers!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Not sure what you mean "what is the purpose of the changes"....what particular changes? I'd simply try a few things like not using extra bass, set speakers to small, experiment with the crossover....in the end its just preference. I tried to find the manual in the Yamaha library but they don't show that model number and hifiengine.com only has the service manual. Do you have one? Curious if indeed you can't turn YPAO off/on at will.

As to the comment "do 120w". Speakers don't "do" watts in terms of output, that's a vague max recommended amp power rating of some sort (and is it continuous or peak or ?). There is such a thing as an acoustic watt to describe output, but that's different and not what the speaker spec is referring to. It just doesn't tell you a lot except to caution you on how much amp power they might be able to take. Doesn't tell you anything about the quality of sound at that power level either and likely isn't all that good at max. The sensitivity spec of the speaker is more useful generally. The frequency range, +/- 3dB generally is the one to consider (and if it isn't specified as such the range could be something less useful), but can be useful in choosing crossover points (some like to cross near the -3dB point, some like to do 1/2 to 1 octave above...)
 
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Audioholic
Hi all thanks for your replies.

The AVR is the Yamaha Natural Sound HTR-6190 7.1x100w (I am running 5.1)
So yes I would imagine there are many newer editions since this came out. :)

But it works and supports just about any audio format before atmos/dts-x so have not really found a good reason to upgrade it.

As for speakers:
-Front: JVC SP-7500 - can't seem to find any Hz rating for them. They say they can do 120w.
-Side surround: Sony SS-MB300H - say they are rated for 140w 50hz-50khz
-Center: JBL Northbridge N-Center II - possibly 150w with 80Hz
-Sub: Sony SA-WX700 250 watt amp w/ dual 10" woofers 20Hz-200Hz

Would any of the above info change any recommendations and/or what is the purpose of the changes?

Cheers!
I’d never run these as large and never cross over anything lower than 80 hz . Your center is of good quality and probably brighter sounding than the others I’d start with a crossover at 100 for all set to small . Before I’d go to the expense of upgrading the avr I’d upgrade the speakers to match the center hard to voice match 3 different brands like that I’d say . I’d never run the sub and mains bass together either believe me I’ve tried about every configuration you can do I’ve never found it to be a good option . With the different brands of speakers across the board you have The eq you have in ypao may be helpful in blending the different speakers a little .
 
Q

qwaven

Audioholic Intern
Hi all,

so no I have not located my manual yet. A while ago I tried searching and I recall my model fell under an alternative name as well depending on where or when you purchased it. If I am not mistaken it is, or at least similar enough to https://de.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/1/327511/RX-V1800_G_en.pdf

Strange I was not able to locate this before posting my question.

Lights up when you run “AUTO SETUP” and when the speaker settings set in “AUTO SETUP” are used without any modifications (see page 37).

So what I had assumed and answers my question pretty much.

I am asking the question "what is the purpose" because I'm not sure I came here with a specific problem. So the suggestions to make changes to my setup, I am wondering what is it that we are trying to do by making one of those changes?

Example
"change my speakers to small" what are you anticipating as a result, why am I doing that? What should I look (hear) for after?

From the manual now that I have it. :)

The Bass setting.

When a subwoofer is connected to this unit and you want to get natural bass sound: Select “SWFR” (subwoofer). The LFE signals as well as the low-frequency signals of other speakers set to “SML” (or “SMALL”) are directed to the subwoofer.
When a subwoofer is connected to this unit and you want to get rich bass sound: Select “BOTH” (both). The low-frequency signals of any source are output from the subwoofer. The LFE signals as well as the low-frequency signals of other speakers set to “SML” (or “SMALL”) are directed to the subwoofer. The low-frequency signals of the front left and right channels are directed to the front left and right speakers and the subwoofer regardless of the “FRONT SP” setting.
When you do not use a subwoofer: Select “FRONT” (front). The LFE signals, the low-frequency signals of the front left and right channels, and the low-frequency signals of other speakers set to “SML” (or “SMALL”) are all directed to the front left and right speakers regardless of the “FRONT SP” setting.

I also noticed that Yamaha offers specification for large vs small speakers.

Measure for the speaker size The woofer section of a speaker is – 16 cm (6.5 in) or larger: large – smaller than 16 cm (6.5 in): small

My fronts are def larger than 6.5 in and the surrounds are closer but also larger.



Cheers!
 
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Audioholic
Hi all,

so no I have not located my manual yet. A while ago I tried searching and I recall my model fell under an alternative name as well depending on where or when you purchased it. If I am not mistaken it is, or at least similar enough to https://de.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/1/327511/RX-V1800_G_en.pdf

Strange I was not able to locate this before posting my question.

Lights up when you run “AUTO SETUP” and when the speaker settings set in “AUTO SETUP” are used without any modifications (see page 37).

So what I had assumed and answers my question pretty much.

I am asking the question "what is the purpose" because I'm not sure I came here with a specific problem. So the suggestions to make changes to my setup, I am wondering what is it that we are trying to do by making one of those changes?

Example
"change my speakers to small" what are you anticipating as a result, why am I doing that? What should I look (hear) for after?

From the manual now that I have it. :)

The Bass setting.

When a subwoofer is connected to this unit and you want to get natural bass sound: Select “SWFR” (subwoofer). The LFE signals as well as the low-frequency signals of other speakers set to “SML” (or “SMALL”) are directed to the subwoofer.
When a subwoofer is connected to this unit and you want to get rich bass sound: Select “BOTH” (both). The low-frequency signals of any source are output from the subwoofer. The LFE signals as well as the low-frequency signals of other speakers set to “SML” (or “SMALL”) are directed to the subwoofer. The low-frequency signals of the front left and right channels are directed to the front left and right speakers and the subwoofer regardless of the “FRONT SP” setting.
When you do not use a subwoofer: Select “FRONT” (front). The LFE signals, the low-frequency signals of the front left and right channels, and the low-frequency signals of other speakers set to “SML” (or “SMALL”) are all directed to the front left and right speakers regardless of the “FRONT SP” setting.

I also noticed that Yamaha offers specification for large vs small speakers.

Measure for the speaker size The woofer section of a speaker is – 16 cm (6.5 in) or larger: large – smaller than 16 cm (6.5 in): small

My fronts are def larger than 6.5 in and the surrounds are closer but also larger.



Cheers!
I had this same unit before I bought an RX-A line but my onscreen menu looked different if I remember right . Even if your front speakers woofers are bigger than 6.5 inches they still will not reproduce the low end as good as your sub free them up with a higher crossover setting and let the sub handle the work and let the AVR handle the uppermost signal .
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I'd also disregard the guidance for speaker "size" settings based on cone diameter. Small just means use bass management (i.e. redirecting bass from that speaker/channel to sub). If you change per our suggestions you'll get a flatter response, or leave it as is if you want the duplication/overlapping of bass frequencies between the speaker/channel and sub. Experiment....
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
I'd also disregard the guidance for speaker "size" settings based on cone diameter. Small just means use bass management (i.e. redirecting bass from that speaker/channel to sub). If you change per our suggestions you'll get a flatter response, or leave it as is if you want the duplication/overlapping of bass frequencies between the speaker/channel and sub. Experiment....
Totally agree. My mains have 12’s in them. Always run em small. I think Yamaha worded that poorly. Like most of their proprietary language...
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Totally agree. My mains have 12’s in them. Always run em small. I think Yamaha worded that poorly. Like most of their proprietary language...
Kinda depends on sub....but when I looked his Sony up it looks fairly competent....even tho the drivers in his mains may be largish....probably still not as capable as the sub.
 
Q

qwaven

Audioholic Intern
Ok I have adjusted some per the recommendations.

-set all speakers to small
-set crossover to 90Hz (where I had it before)
-left sub to both, but if I understand with speakers small this does not do anything anymore?

Two questions:

1. If I listen to something like a stereo source (Dolby digital 2.0 or something) where my AVR will only output to the L/R do these settings still effect it? IE what happens to my LFE/bass since the intention above is to direct the lows to the sub?

2. Are there any recommendations for movies with quality Dolby/DTS 5.1 (or greater) channels that would be ideal to test with? As I've experienced previously sometimes the issue is the source so if there is something anyone here suggests as a reliable testing tool I'd be game for giving it a go providing I have it.

Cheers!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Don't know if the sub setting to both matters, but why leave it there?

Your avr can output to all channels with an upmixer with a 2.0 source....and using such will use the bass management settings you have rather than just sending full range to L/R. Even with a 2.0 source many avrs in stereo mode or with other settings can still use bass management/subs, too.

If you want good demos of bass heavy movies, this is a good start http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/12-the-low-frequency-content-thread-films-games-music-etc/

I like Tron Legacy, Avatar, War of the Worlds (2005) and Oblivion blurays for demos....

ps and for music, since it just came on in my random playlist, is some nice industrial stuff from Mika Vainio :)
 
Last edited:
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Audioholic
HD is correct in his selection of disc’s all good choices. If I remember right if you set the fronts to small useing bass management when playing two channel Dolby tracks you get the deep bass out of the sub I’d not leave it set to both either give it a try .
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
HD is correct in his selection of disc’s all good choices. If I remember right if you set the fronts to small useing bass management when playing two channel Dolby tracks you get the deep bass out of the sub I’d not leave it set to both either give it a try .
It wouldn't matter particularly if the 2.0 source was encoded in Dolby as to sub content via bass management, altho I do seem to remember 2.0 Dolby has cues for both subs and surround matrixing for upmixers....
 
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Audioholic
It wouldn't matter particularly if the 2.0 source was encoded in Dolby as to sub content via bass management, altho I do seem to remember 2.0 Dolby has cues for both subs and surround matrixing for upmixers....
Mine does send out low frequency to the sub in two channel I’d assume it’s because I run everything small as-well .with that being said on two channel cd’s I get 2.2 as I run duel subs I very rarely run two channel on any source cd , iTunes etc . On a few concert blu-rays I’ve a few that are dts 2.0 I’ve always scratched my head at that seems like a waste of the format .
 
Q

qwaven

Audioholic Intern
Hi all,

Thanks for your continued help. :)

So to update I have tested using War Of The Worlds played chapters 5-6'ish

Scenario 1:
The changes I posted above.

Everything sounds fine for the most part. I mean if I were watching the movie normally I probably wouldn't notice, however I do feel the "horn noises" were a little less prominent than scenario #2. I also notice the sub location is clearly to my right.

Scenario #2:
Settings are back to the YPAO choices. Large speakers/lower crossover

Everything mostly sounds the same to be perfectly honest with the exceptions. The "horn noises" seemed a little more in your face. I wouldn't really say it was anything super drastic which is why I say I probably wouldn't notice. I do also feel with the bass being channeled to the fronts also I did feel the localization of the sub was less. Not gone, but less.

Scenario #3:
Same as scenario #1 except I change the LFE to just sub.

I would say this had no effect compared to #1. I did notice that some of the voices were possibly more evident but than again it could also be that I've watched that scene several times.

All in, all I am not sure there was any major difference between the settings. It seems adjusting the sub might improve things more than the above? Thoughts?

As for the 2.0 source. I was more meaning a straight unmodified single. 2 CH. I've never heard my sub come on for anything with 2 CH. The AVR will show 2 speakers only. (see attached) So I am wondering would the crossover setting or large vs small be used for such a scenario?

Cheers!
 

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