YAMAHA RXA6A--- HOW MUCH WATTS I GET CONNECTED 3 SPEAKERS WITH 4 OHM (front loud speakers and central speaker) AND 4 SURROUND SPEAKERS 6 OHMS

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Seems you've been more marketing affected with watts/impedance ratings and how little that really means. Maybe try this article to start to understand measurements https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/understanding-loudspeaker-measurements
I randomly picked the following from avsf:
We all (a safe assumption right?) know there are many measurable facts that can support different sound quality/signature between amps, including but not limited to:

frequency response, distortions, noise, slew rate, damping factor, cross talk, ringing etc., when used within their power output limits.

But don't we all can easily/readily agree frequency response difference is the main factor? I believe that's why people use tone control, room correction, equalization and room correction software is gaining popularity, to the point even a $1,600 brand new AVR-X3800H, Cinema 50 come with the $800 option to FW upgrade from the stock Audyssey to DLBC!!

Just a quick look on many of the FR graphs people posted on various forum, it is easy to understand why some people are prepared to pay Denon and Marantz USD800 to upgrade, eventually if not right away, instead rush to order an external amp.

Why so many people got fixated in the idea of buying a good amp to replace their existing good amp (I mean, not for more power output reason) will give them "better sound" whatever better sound means to them?

It is a mystery..

So they can hear the difference between say a Denon AVR-X4800H and a separate preamp power amp that cost 3 times, both have 20-20,000 Hz within +/- 0.5 dB or less, yet they seem okay with the kind of frequency variation, all over the map that their speakers offer, like the one below (thanks to the poster):

1677937080955.png
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Its really hard to help someone when they don't provide enough information about their listening room and speakers. :rolleyes:
 
C

Chris Anderson

Junior Audioholic
I think your questions have basically been answered. That is, music and movie contents vary a lot, the signal is not a steady sine wave but a combination of sine waves that vary with time. That is a fact!

So it is not possible to answer your specific question as to how many "watts.....", with reference to the power output "sweep test" or when watching movies at cinema level using whatever speakers. It really cannot be answered correctly even if we try!

Sweep tests and movie signals are very different on the magnitude and time/duration basis. For example, sweep test such as those Gene conducted on the A6A was based on continuous sine waves at 1 kHz, and the test duration was not "continuous", not literally, but are of a short duration (like minutes??). Movie signals are nothing like that!

Now if you want to know (not sure if you do) how much power the A6A can output when connected to 4 and 6 ohms resistor test loads, take a look of Audioholics and Audiovision.de's tests and you will see some results for the A6A, lucky you..

Yamaha RX-A6A (review) (audiovision.de)

Their bench tests show, using 1 kHz test signal, at unspecified THD level, but presumably 1%:
1) 219 W 6 ohms, 2 channel driven..................... Calculated voltage = 36.25 V
2) 270 W 4 ohms, 2 channel driven..................... Calculated voltage = 33.59 V, current = 8.22 A/ch.
3) 123 W 6 ohms, 7 channel driven......................Calculated power = 861 W, V = 27.17 V, current = 4.53 A/ch.
4) 151 W 4 ohms, 5 channel driven......................Calculated power = 755 W

Using the power formula, P = V^2/R = I^2*R (based on a resistor load that is typically used for such bench tests)
where P is power, V is voltage and R is the resistance, the above calculated values can reasonably be assumed to be the output voltage, current, and power limit.

Based on the Audiovision.de's test results shown in 1) above, it would appear that the RX-A6A can output about 36.25 V at 6 A, or 32.86 V at 8.22 A on per tested channel basis, for the duration of such tests that probably last no more than a few minutes.

Based on 2) above, the current limit would be about 8.22 A, but based on Gene's test, I would use 8.4 A or 16.8 A for 2 ch (see linked test by Gene below).
Based on 3) above, it would appear the A6A's power supply can output 861 W for the duration of the test, for 6 ohm test load

Yamaha RX-A6A 9.2CH 8K AV Receiver Bench Test Results! | Audioholics

Now, as an example, if you have 3 4ohm resistor and 4 6 ohm resistors all connected to the A6A, then the 4 ohm loads will draw current up to the point the power supply cannot handle, same for the 6 ohm resistors, when you gradually increase the volume dial.

So let me do the following tests (on paper, calculated only, obviously):

As you wish, I would connect all speakers as you mentioned to the A6A, and increase the volume until the nanny stopped the test.

Just prior to the nanny stopping the madness:

Based on the unit reaching it's current limit of 8.4 A*2 = 16.8 A first, as dictated by the 2 channel 4 ohm load test:

Apply Ohm's law, that is V = I*R, so V = 8.4X4 = 33.6 V, that's within the calculated voltage limit of the A6A.

So let's use 33.6 V as the voltage limit for the case of having three 4 ohm loads and four 6 ohm loads:

Power into the 4 ohm load = 33.59^2/4 = 282 W, or about 2*282/3 = 188 W into each of the three 4 ohm resistor load
Power into the 6 ohm load = (2*282)/4 =141 W into each of the four 6 ohm resistor loads.
Total power output = 3*188+4*141 = 1128 W, that would exceed the power limit based on Audivision.de's test with 7 ch driven into 6 ohms, that is a total of 861 W. We can use the ratio 861/1128 = 861/1128 = 0.763 as a correction factor to estimate the maximum output into you three 4 ohm and four 6 ohm loads, so the final estimated outputs will be:

188*0.763 = 143.4 W for each of the three 4 ohm loads, and
141*0.763 = 107.58 W for each of the four 6 ohm loads.


The above worked example are based on:

a) Use Gene's bench test results on the A6A to calculate the assumed current limit based on the 4 ohm test.
b) Use Audiovision.de's 5&7 ch power output results for the 4 & 6 ohm loads (Gene did not include those tests)
c) Use the results based on 1% THD, and assume (not specified) Audiovision.de did their test based on 1%
d) Obviously such sweep tests are done using resistor loads, not actual speakers

The results are not "continuous rating", not literally, but the term "continuous" are often used by reviewers if they use continuous sine wave test signal as opposed to sine wave pulses, such as x second on, y second off etc.

@gene can tell us the actual duration of the sweep tests and I don't want to guess.

Again, no one can answer your questions exactly because you are talking about watching movies, in that case, it depends on the contents in the movies, that obviously vary greatly among different movies.

And also depends on the characteristics of the speakers, just 4 or 6 ohm is not enough information because those numbers are based on nominal values, and "nominal" is loosely defined. You can possibly have a speaker that has higher nominal value per the manufacturer's own definition, yet it could have dips that could be narrow, or wide, could also be in the bass frequencies, or at higher frequencies. Then there is also the phase angle issue, that may not affect the current draw but it may cause the amp to over heat, or become unstable at some point, resulting in the nanny shutting it down even at lower "watts" output level.

This is just a numerical example, but you can easily see why AVRs are not tested with 4 ohm load for the 7 or even just 5 channel driven conditions. In the two channel driven tests, Gene measured 282 W, the calculated current is 8.4 A, with 2 channel driven, the AVR's power supply will have to deliver 8.4 A per channel, and the calculated voltage is 33.6 V, so if the same output is expected under the 7 ch driven condition, the transformer's VA rating will have to be 33.6*8.4*7 = about 1,976 VA, that would be a huge transformer that probably weight over 30 lbs! For 8 ohm load, that can be cut to half. And that's assuming 100% efficiency!!

I hope this helps, but I suspect it may confuse you more, so, next question.:D

Note: I did this in a hurry, regardless, there may be typos and calculation errors so if other members catch any, feel free to alert me and I will make the necessary corrections.

Edit: I found some errors, hopefully got them all fixed now
 
C

Chris Anderson

Junior Audioholic
You are my hero of the day THANK YOU now I have proper calculations and this answer ....
188*0.763 = 143.4 W for each of the three 4 ohm loads, and
141*0.763 = 107.58 W for each of the four 6 ohm loads. .....is satisfied me now we talking this is what I talk about thank and take care
 
C

Chris Anderson

Junior Audioholic
PENG you are my hero yes my question was answered properly thank you and have nice weekend take care pal
 
H

harley52

Enthusiast
chris
the answer to your questions would be very confusing for you and that isn’t to slight your intelligence but, the subject is rather complex and it would entail starting from the very beginning of understanding speakers, ohms, spl’s, wattages among other things. as mentioned by others. it includes room size and your listening distance along with how your room is furnished and on and on. a short book could be made to truly give you an answer.
as someone mentioned hook up your system and see what you like and don’t like and the forum participates will try to help you to reach your desires. having some speakers at 4 ohms and 3 ohms keep an eye on how warm the top of the yamaha is becoming. that will tell you if you’re pushing the capabilities of the unit.
 
C

Chris Anderson

Junior Audioholic
chris
the answer to your questions would be very confusing for you and that isn’t to slight your intelligence but, the subject is rather complex and it would entail starting from the very beginning of understanding speakers, ohms, spl’s, wattages among other things. as mentioned by others. it includes room size and your listening distance along with how your room is furnished and on and on. a short book could be made to truly give you an answer.
as someone mentioned hook up your system and see what you like and don’t like and the forum participates will try to help you to reach your desires. having some speakers at 4 ohms and 3 ohms keep an eye on how warm the top of the yamaha is becoming. that will tell you if you’re pushing the capabilities of the unit.
I understand a lot but Sometime can't find the right answer I have home cinema for over 10 years 7+1 and now I changed for modern units 5+1+2 I have acustic panels all over the room for best sound experience I get the answer already and that's important knowing how much watt you get in to speakers and how amp separate watts because for example if you have two speakers stereo 100W RMS each but your amp is 150 W per Chanel stereo when you listen on MAX volume your speakers will burn so that's why I need to know couple of things but yes everything matters
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
if you have two speakers stereo 100W RMS each but your amp is 150 W per Chanel stereo when you listen on MAX volume your speakers will burn so that's why I need to know couple of things but yes everything matters
Well, hopefully you'd have not turned the volume simply to max. Many of us use amps far above the max capability of a speaker (double the max of a speaker is a guideline some use too).....we just don't turn the volume to max and try to blow the speakers.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
chris
the answer to your questions would be very confusing for you and that isn’t to slight your intelligence but, the subject is rather complex and it would entail starting from the very beginning of understanding speakers, ohms, spl’s, wattages among other things. as mentioned by others. it includes room size and your listening distance along with how your room is furnished and on and on. a short book could be made to truly give you an answer.
as someone mentioned hook up your system and see what you like and don’t like and the forum participates will try to help you to reach your desires. having some speakers at 4 ohms and 3 ohms keep an eye on how warm the top of the yamaha is becoming. that will tell you if you’re pushing the capabilities of the unit.
You are right and I have said the same, basically. However, if you read his post carefully, his question seems specific and he referred to Gene's bench test results. So he was asking for the "maximum". HD got it too, that's why he said what he said in his last post in his usual way.;)

So, I estimated the numbers that I thought he was after, but I stated the assumptions I made for my calculations. He is an experienced HT devices users so I think he can use the numbers wisely and won't do the things HD alluded to.
 
H

harley52

Enthusiast
I understand a lot but Sometime can't find the right answer I have home cinema for over 10 years 7+1 and now I changed for modern units 5+1+2 I have acustic panels all over the room for best sound experience I get the answer already and that's important knowing how much watt you get in to speakers and how amp separate watts because for example if you have two speakers stereo 100W RMS each but your amp is 150 W per Chanel stereo when you listen on MAX volume your speakers will burn so that's why I need to know couple of things but yes everything matters
My apologies. The way your question was worded it gave me the impression of someone just starting out in this hobby. I see now that I was very wrong. Anyway……
 
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