Yamaha RX-Z9 First Look

[Unregistered]

Has anyone seen the new Denon 5805 mega receiver and thought of converting for the 6100.00 dollar price tag? More power and HDMI switching, is it worth it? please post your comments on this

You might get more info if you start a 5805 tread.

[Admin Edit: AGREED]

 

[O'Shag]

Gene and AV Phile,

Thanks much to you for your response.

Gene, I see your point, I've not really determined which of my stereo components contribute most. Both are excellent. Don't get me wrong, the Yamaha is superb and I am thrilled with its performance.

I haven't been able to do an a/b comparison in multi-channel SACD or DVD-A/DTS modes because my ARC components are limited to two-channel. The Yamaha does sound wonderful in multi-channel.

Its my strong impression however that in a two-channel comparison (redbook, SACD-stereo, and HDCD), the ARC SP6e preamp and Classic 120 hybrid Tube/Fet troide operation monoblocs are clearly superior, smoother sounding, more detailed, more authority in the bass, and excellent depth of image, that is to say a more three dimensional image is generated. To my ear the Yamaha presents images in a flatter more two-dimensional plain (only in two-channel mind you). Not slighting the Z9 in any way, after all I invested in one and am vey fond of it. The monoblocs and preamp cost more than eleven grand, and that was 15 years ago. Modern day equivalents would be considerably more expensive. More importantly they are considerd some of the best components ever made. To expect that the Z9 would be better or as good as these components in two-channel performance would be unfair.

Maybe these advantages will not be noticable in multi-channel, and keeping the systems seperate may end up being the way to go. But I'll try to get them working together and do some tests. My guess is that the front channel performance of the ARC monoblocs and maybe the SP6e will make for even better multi-channel performance.

AV Phile, thanks for the excellent feedback. I will note your advise during my attempt to combine these systems. I sure hope I can get the full benefit from the Z9 as a best of breed processor and surround amplifier while using my ARC gear.

 

[Leigh]

I have had my z9 for several weeks now and I am very impressed with the sound. The video processor is giving me some trouble though and I am not currently utilizing the Faroudja DCDi processing but would like to. I have a Pioneer Elite Pro 710hd 64 inch rear projection high def TV and my DVD player is just a 6 year old Panasonic DVD-A120 that I paid $600 Canadian for at Future Shop. Its not a progressive scan player and would probably be worth about $100 today. I have had my television ISF calibrated with this DVD player and the picture looks pretty good due to the excellent line doubler in the Pioneer TV. Anyway, the TV doesn't have progressive scan and the DVD player doesn't have progressive scan so I was anxious to run a movie through the Z9's processor at 480p. The problem I am encountering is with dark black areas on the screen. It seems when the screen is completely black that there are "shadowy" areas that are even more black that appear on parts of the screen. In the beginning of LOTR Fellowship of the Ring the screen is black and white letters appear on the screen. Through the Z9's processor there is a darker black haze that appears around the white letters, when the letters go away then the black haze takes a second or two and then it disappears as well. Another example is in the start of Master and Commander. In the start of the movie it is very dark on the ship and through the Z9 processor there seems to be an extra very black shadowy effect around all of the objects on the screen - the shoes and cannons etc. This is very distracting. When I turn the processor off and watch the same movie with just my Z9 acting as a component switcher, the dark shadowy effect is gone. I have tried tweaking the TV's settings as well as the settings on the Z9 when the processor is on. Still this extra black shadowy effect on top of the normal black effect is happening. I don't know what to do. Should I be getting the ISF calibration guy to come and re-calibrate my set using the processor?

On a side note I was considering purchasing the Denon DVD-5900 but noticed that it uses the exact same Faroudja DCDi chip FLI-2310 as the Z9 uses. Does this mean that the Z9 is going to give me the exact same picture because the Faroudja chips are the same?

Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Unregistered]

I did a bit of searching on my processing problems in the Z9 and found on the AVS forum a thread in the DVD PLAYERS section titled, "Faroudja FLI-23xx problems?" It seems that there are a number of other people experiencing the same blotchiness, shadowy effect, or ghosting or whatever you want to call it on their DVD players that are using the same Faroudja FLI-2310 chip.

Has anyone heard anything more on this? Is anyone else experiencing this problem through their Z9?

 

[Krazykaj]

I have just recieved a Denon DVD player 5900 and have a 3910 on the way for comparison, but at the moment, to use up time, I am trying to set up DVD Audio via Analogue connections and MULTI CH IN and need some help in figuring out how the Z9 works with its PURE DIRECT mode.

Basically, steps I have already taken with a SPL meter are:
I have fully setup my speakers so that they all are the same levels with the Z9 internal test tones. So all digital signals that are decoded are fine/equal.
I then, using the MULTI CH IN on the Z9, set up the 5900's levels with the internal 5900’s pink noise. I then confirmed the levels were ok with the Chesky DVD-Audio setup disk, DVD audio seems to be a bit differnet from DD or DTS. Anyway.
So now all my speakers are at the same levels, when using the DVD players decoding via analogue, or with digital connections.
When I play a DVD Audio disk, I just have the Z9 on MULTI CH IN and STRAIGHT, everything is ok, sounds great, and levels are ok.

But what if I want to use PURE DIRECT with MULTI CH IN. Does this then bypass even the speakers levels setup on the Z9, stuffing up the volumes of each speaker as now only the DVD's speaker level setup is being used. (Which, on it's own, the 5900’s levels are incorrect, it needs the Z9's level on top to even out)

What do you do in this situation? I do not want to set the 5900's level so they are correct, while the Z9 is in the PURE DIRECT MULTI CH IN mode. As sometimes you may want video in the background, which the Z9 will cut off, or to apply a DSP.
Or do I just not listen to the MULTI CH IN in PURE DIRECT mode.

Please let me know.

And I know it would be better off using the iLink connection, but the cable was missing out of the DVD box so I am waiting for that too, and as I said earlier, I would just like to find out anyway .
Simply, does the PURE DIRECT mode bypass even the speaker channel level setup.

Thankyou
KJ

 

[W4ZOO]

Simply, does the PURE DIRECT mode bypass even the speaker channel level setup.

Thankyou
KJ

I would think you could set one of your speaker level settings way low and try PURE DIRECT mode. This woud be very easy.

 

[poweragent]

Rx-Z9

Gene, I've bought the Yami after reading your review. This think rocks. Anyway. I'm going to move it to a custom cabinet and am looking for recommendations for a cooling fan. Specically, I want to be able to plug it into the back of the unit so when I turn the receiver on, the fan goes on. I looked at the sherbourn fan but it appears too big and bulky. Also, any pictures of a cooling fan equipt cabinet would be helpful.


Keep up the good work
Ted

 

[Yamahaluver]

Get the Panamax fans from Parts Express, I am using one now on my Z-9 and it works nice and quiet.

 

[Krazykaj]

hi again,

I have a small question regarding sub-woofers and equalization with the Z9.

When you perform the auto setup, the Z9 equalizes the sub(s), you can see what it does, what the results are, if you go to AUTO SETUP -> Information -> Equalization

Now, my question is, is there any way to access this and manually equalize the subs. You can do it for all the other speakers it seems, except the sub. Why is this, obviously the Z9 has the facilities built in. Why does the Z9 only allow the subs to be equalized in Auto Setup mode but not when you go to the Graphic Equalizer to manually change it?

Or have I misunderstood something here?

Thanks
KJ

 

[jmicheal]

9.1 along with Decoder and DSP Confusion

First let me say that I bought my Z9 totally for the 9.1 feature. Now that I have it, I can't for the life of me figure this thing out. This is my first "real" receiver so part of the problem might be me, but I can't make heads or tales of the manual.

So with that said, How do you get 9.1 out of the Z9? I read somewhere that it could only be achieved by the Cinema DSP modes such as Sci-Fi, Spectacle, etc. However, the manual says those are only for 2 channel input. So I guess a better question might be how do you get 9.1 out of the Z9 with DD 5.1 input? Again, the manual doesn't say a thing about 9.1, which is strange for a unit that us supposed to give that sound field. I see 6.1 and 7.1 mentioned but no 9.1.

While I'm making a fool of myself asking these questions that are probably pretty stupid for anyone who knows what they are doing, which decoder is the better decoder to use? Is Auto reliable enough to work properly for all sources? PL11x is the newest thing on the block from what I have read so I usually use that one in the PLIIx movie mode to decode most things which seem to be in DD 2.0 or DD 5.1 if in surround sound at all. However, there's the Off option, which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me since one would think a receiver would have to have some type of decoder active alll times . The other choices are EX, which I think is just another name for Dolby Digital. The EX/ES option I assume decodes both DD (EX) and DTS (ES). So, why would I ever use EX if EX/ES takes care of DD and would also handle anything coded in DTS? That's about the only decoding options I see available unless I'm missing something, which is very likely.

ESPN uses that crazy 5.1 Circle Surround stuff. Since the Z9 does not have a SRS Circle Surround decoder, which one would decode Circle Surround best? I notice that it detects Circle Surround as 2.0 input.

Then there's the Analog/Digital stuff. Everything I pass into my Z9 is digital either through Coax or Fiber Optic but the DSP stuff in the manual seems to assume analog in most cases. What will this pricey thing do for a digital signal and what are my decoding and DSP options if I want to use my entire 9.1 sound field? What am I missing?

If there is a generous soul out there who doesn't mind throwig me a bone about this thing, it would be greatly appreciated. I hate the have this $4500 unit setting there doing nothing more than a cheap $500 unit can do.

Thank you!!

 

[twelly]

Folks,

I'm currently thinking of upgrading my old denon receiver AVR-5700 because I wanted the following new features:
- DVD-Audio/SACD
- Dolby Prologic II/IIx
- Auto Calibration
- Better DSP (not a top priority, so far I didn't like my denon dsp, very dull)

So far based on my research and reading some of the reviews on the web, my top 2 choices are the Yammy Z9 and Pioneer Elite 59txi. Both receivers are available in our local dealer. I just need your opinion... how do you usually audition receivers at your local dealer? Do you bring your own movie/music materials? What list of features should I test that you recommend? I use the receiver 70% on movie-watching and 30% music.

Thanks,
Twelly

 

[Leigh]

I have a question about the i-link connection. I have a 7.1 system and when I listen to SACD's or DVD Audio's using the i-link I only get sound out of my side surrounds which are dipole speakers. Is there a way to set up the Z9 so that I get sound out of my side surrounds AND my rear surrounds at the same time when listening to high rez multichannel music? Or perhaps is there a way to make the surround info come out of the rear 2 surrounds which are direct-firing INSTEAD of the side surrounds? When I watch a dolby digital movie I get the sound out of both sides and rear surrounds just fine it's just when I listen to the SACD's and DVD Audio discs that I would really like to be able to get my rear surrounds working.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[gene]

Leigh;

That is b/c DVD-A/SACD are 5.1 channel formats. However, I believe you can engage PLIIX Music Mode to get 7.1 surround for these modes. Go into the surround setup menu and enable PLIIx for the EXT In/I.link mode.

 

[Leigh]

Thanks very much gene, I'll give that a try.

 

[walt_nixon]

9.1 Output

how do you get 9.1 out of the Z9 with DD 5.1 input?

The 9.1 comes in when you have your Z9 set up with a total of 10 (or 11) speakers, as follows:
2 Main
2 Front Effects ("presence")
2 Side
2 Rear
1 Center Channe (that's 9 so far)
1 or 2 Sub-Woofers (the ".1" part)

In normal operation decoding 2 channel sources (using THX Ultra2 Cinema, DTS EX or DD EX decoders), the most you're going to get out of the system is 7.1 channels, i. e., all but the front "presence" speakers kick in. When you select one of the "MOVIE THEATER" sound field programs for use with one of these decoders, the "presence" speakers will be engaged and you've got 9.1 channel sound. Look at pages 55 and 114 in the user's manual.

Walt

 

[RacerChris]

Z9 Video Downconversion

In my system it is important to have Video Downconversion from High-Bandwdith Component Video (HDTV) to composite video. Can anyone confirm/deny the Z9's ability to do this?

As always, thanks everyone in advance for your replies!

 

[troytn]

Leigh;

That is b/c DVD-A/SACD are 5.1 channel formats. However, I believe you can engage PLIIX Music Mode to get 7.1 surround for these modes. Go into the surround setup menu and enable PLIIx for the EXT In/I.link mode.

It seems you cannot engage the PLIIx music for dvd audio or SACD when using the I-link. Not sure why? You can however engage PLIIx if you use the 5.1 analog inputs for dvd audio and SACD.

But the I-link does let you engae PLIIx for all other surround formats except dvd audio and SACD.

Has anyone been able to engage the surround back speakers (PLIIx) via I-link when listening to dvd audio/SACD's?

 

[gene]

troytn;

I believe you can engage PLIIx for DVD-A and SACD via i.link. Its been awhile since I reviewed it, but I seem to remember doing a specific audio setup for i.link that allowed the user to use DSP processing such as PLIIx for all formats via i.link.

Perhaps you are engaging "Pure Direct" which will infact bypass the DSP so you won't be able to engage PLIIx modes. If so, disable "Pure Direct" and see what happens.

 

[troytn]

Gene,
I will go back and look at this again. I remember I would try and hit my ex/es button and nothing. I believe the Z9 via I-link keeps it in pure DSD for SACD etc..and does not convert to PCM which would allow for PLIIx processing via I-link. I wish it would. I will look again. I know it does for the analog 5.1 inputs.

Has anyone heard if Yamaha plans to replace this model with a newer version this fall? It needs the upgraded YAPO, HMDI, etc to keep up with others. I like the looks of the new RX-V4600 receiver and I'm looking forward to its full review.

One nice thing I noticed is the remote has a button for toggling the dts neo, pro logic, PLII, etc modes. If I remember correctly the Z9 you have to use the GUI and access it it that way under decoder type option. Kind of a pain. There is a direct button for the ex/es on the Z9 remote but not the dts neo, PLII etc like on the rx-v2500 and 4600.

I should try and program my Z9 remote using the new button labeled "select" on these new recievers and see if it would work on my Z9 and change these modes more easily. My local store should let me program one key stroke from his 4600 remote to my Z9 remote.

Gene any news on a new flagship from Yamaha? They did such a great job with the Z9 (I love mine) I can only imagine what Yamaha can do to improve the Z9. My neighbor will buy mine when I'm ready to upgrade.

 

[ailean]

Hi Gene,
I noticed that you had a Windows program from Yamaha for talking to the Z9 via serial, any ideas on where to get this? Does anyone have a copy I can get hold of? I've found the serial comm specs on the Yamaha US site (anything like this doesn't seem to exist on any of the other international Yamaha sites i.e. IR codes, reset doc etc. ) but wanted to have a play with a prebuilt GUI before considering programming my own control stuff.

Also anyone know much about the 'REMOTE IN/OUT jacks' and the 'CONTROL OUT jacks'? I take it the latter just go 12v high when the unit is switched on, is the former purely a Yamaha control link interface or can it be used for an IR extender when placing it inside a closed cabinate?

EDIT:
Doh! Google is your friend... After a bit more messing with search terms I found the dealer support site with the editors.

Thanks.