Yamaha RX-V659 Receiver Review!

[ggunnell]

can somebody point me to the page in the manual that discusses the "assignable power amp"?

All I can find is the ability to assign the presence amp to zone 2, as described on pages 96 and 105

 

[freddorn]

anybody considering this should look at the more powerful HTR 5890 which can be had on sale for $399 from authorized dealers. (with free shipping to boot)

 

[ggunnell]

Maybe I didn't read the tests right, but is the amp section of the 659 comparable to amps rated at 140w/channel specs at 8ohms?

Perhaps you could give us a specific product to compare to.

Remember the devil is in the details comparing numbers unless the test procedures are identical.

On another tack, I'll give an example comparing the RX-V659 to the RX-V2700 using Yamaha's specs in the .pdf product manuals:

The 659 is rated at 100Wpc into 8 ohms, 20-20k Hz, 0.06%THD, seven channels driven.

The 2700 is similarly rated at 140Wpc, 0.04%THD

But the short term dynamic power delivery (IHF) into low impedance loads is considerably different:

659, 245W into 2 ohms
2700, 345W into 2 ohms

I don't recommend 2 ohm loads, but this shows you a difference between the two amps in their ability to quickly dump current into a load.

 

[Bluesmoke]

Perhaps you could give us a specific product to compare to.

Remember the devil is in the details comparing numbers unless the test procedures are identical.

On another tack, I'll give an example comparing the RX-V659 to the RX-V2700 using Yamaha's specs in the .pdf product manuals:

The 659 is rated at 100Wpc into 8 ohms, 20-20k Hz, 0.06%THD, seven channels driven.

The 2700 is similarly rated at 140Wpc, 0.04%THD

But the short term dynamic power delivery (IHF) into low impedance loads is considerably different:

659, 245W into 2 ohms
2700, 345W into 2 ohms

I don't recommend 2 ohm loads, but this shows you a difference between the two amps in their ability to quickly dump current into a load.

I'm just going by what I read from the audioholics review. I'm no techie. I'm just trying to make sense with some "real world" numbers.

At full continuous unclipped power (132wpc x 1; 8 ohms, 120wpc x 2; 8 ohms – full bandwidth with less than 0.1% THD+N), the RX-V659 still maintained excellent bandwidth linearity with a -3dB point of 65kHz despite we were driving the receiver way beyond its rated 100wpc power specification. Into 4 ohms, the RX-V659 was able to deliver continuous power levels at a whopping 200wpc x 1 and 170wpc x 2 with less than 0.1% THD + N. The amplifier section of this receiver is truly underrated. I never encountered a budget A/V surround receiver that could deliver this kind of power before. Truly amazing.

What does all this mean? The review wasn't very clear. I've seen Yamaha rate it at 100w/7channel, 115w/7 channel, and then saw Best Buy's description as 140w/channel with total of 980w. If the amp is "class leading" in terms of power, does this mean it boasts more power than the Pioneer 1016 (which at 120w/channel) is probably the Yamaha's closest competitor?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I'm just going by what I read from the audioholics review. I'm no techie. I'm just trying to make sense with some "real world" numbers.



What does all this mean? The review wasn't very clear. I've seen Yamaha rate it at 100w/7channel, 115w/7 channel, and then saw Best Buy's description as 140w/channel with total of 980w. If the amp is "class leading" in terms of power, does this mean it boasts more power than the Pioneer 1016 (which at 120w/channel) is probably the Yamaha's closest competitor?

Blue,

Best thing to do is go to the mfg. website, and pull up the manual. Anymore, you need to register to do that, but it takes 30 seconds. Go to the back pages of the manual, and there you can compare apples to apples. Like ggunnel said, dynamic power says a lot. Those short term bursts (peaks) can demand 100's of watts from the AVR, and many times distortion reaches audible levels here. The better AVR's will cruise through those bursts, while entry level units may struggle. I think this Yamaha is a nice compromise between entry level and flagship. Also don't forget to compare weights of class A/B AVR's. The better units weigh significantly more, having more robust power supplies and larger heat sinks to dissapate heat.

 

[gene]

What does all this mean? The review wasn't very clear. I've seen Yamaha rate it at 100w/7channel, 115w/7 channel, and then saw Best Buy's description as 140w/channel with total of 980w. If the amp is "class leading" in terms of power, does this mean it boasts more power than the Pioneer 1016 (which at 120w/channel) is probably the Yamaha's closest competitor?

Oh geez, here we go again. None of the receivers rate power with ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN.

Please read: http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/ACDTEST.php

The HTR line sold at best buy is rated at 1kHz, 1% THD to give the illusion of more power to the uneducated consumer. HTR and RXV of same year and retail price are identical receivers!

I said class leading, b/c the amp section of the 659 was among the best I've seen at this price point. Power has much to do with this, but so do the other parameters I measured. Power isn't everything, but clean power with ability to drive low impedance loads speaks volumes.

Right now the 659 is our HOT Pick for the under $600 receiver category.

 

[freddorn]

Gene, your specs on the HTR line are wrong.

Here are the specs for the HTR 5890.

Detailed Specifications:
Minimum RMS Output Power (8 ohms, 20 Hz—20 kHz, 0.04% THD)
Front Channels 120W + 120W
Center Channel 120 W
Surround Channels 120W + 120W
Surround Back Channels 120W + 120W
Dynamic Power/Ch (Front Ch, Speaker A) 8/6/4/2 ohms 155/195/250/330 W
Damping Factor (8 ohms, 20 Hz—20 kHz) 140 (speaker A)
Frequency Response 10 Hz—100 kHz +0, -3 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (20 Hz—20 kHz, 60 W/8 ohms)
CD (Front Sp Out) 0.04%
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (CD) 100 dB (250 mV:

At $399, a much better deal than the 659.

 

[gene]

Gene, your specs on the HTR line are wrong.

Please RE-READ my prior post.

The HTR-5890 is NOT of the same model year OR retail price of the RX-V659. It retails for $849 where as the RX-V659 retails for $549.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200016&CTID=5000400

 

[ggunnell]

BTW, Gene, thank you very much for publishing power conversion efficiency numbers.

A proud owner of the RX-V2500, 4600, and 2600, I was amazed at the additional heat dissipation of the 4600 and 2600. I don't know if Yamaha is choosing to run less expensive bipolar devices in a high bias mode rather than spending more for better devices/designs, but I do think the high heat dissipation of some current electronic products deserves comment.

 

[tonay]

Hello All

Any idea how this receiver compares to the HK AVR340?

Thanks all

 

[mike c]

feature wise ... the 659 walks all over the 340.
2 channel wattage wise ... the same.
12v trigger for the yammy.

looks ... the 340 has the upper hand.
independent crossovers for the fronts, center, surrounds and rears also go to the 340.

 

[gene]

feature wise ... the 659 walks all over the 340.
2 channel wattage wise ... the same.

huh? The HK is rated at 70wpc into 2CH where as the Yammie is rated at 100watts and I tested it to 132 watts into 8 ohms and 200watts into 4 ohms!

The Yammie also weighs in about 4-5lbs heavier.

 

[mike c]

huh? The HK is rated at 70wpc into 2CH where as the Yammie is rated at 100watts and I tested it to 132 watts into 8 ohms and 200watts into 4 ohms!

The Yammie also weighs in about 4-5lbs heavier.

sorry, what I meant was: "the same" as above ... where the yammy walks all over the HK in 2 channel mode.

remember, I have the HK335 and the yammy 640. (both older versions of the units in question)

 

[Doc.]

Probably has been asked before and I missed it, but how does the RX-V659 compare to the Pioneer 1016txv?

 

[Bluesmoke]

Probably has been asked before and I missed it, but how does the RX-V659 compare to the Pioneer 1016txv?

I don't know about the 1016, but I used to have a 1015. It was no contest. The 5960 did everything better.

 

[jthomas666]

Many thanks for the information. I've been shopping for a new receiver for a few weeks, and it certainly seems like this Yamaha has moved to the top of my list, moving ahead of the Onkyo 604. The Onkyp started out ahead, mainly because my last amp, an Onkyo A-7, lasted for 30 years, and I figure that's gotta be worth something. But Gene's "under the hood" discussion strongly suggests that the Yamaha is better built than the Onkyo.

 

[gene]

Many thanks for the information. I've been shopping for a new receiver for a few weeks, and it certainly seems like this Yamaha has moved to the top of my list, moving ahead of the Onkyo 604. The Onkyp started out ahead, mainly because my last amp, an Onkyo A-7, lasted for 30 years, and I figure that's gotta be worth something. But Gene's "under the hood" discussion strongly suggests that the Yamaha is better built than the Onkyo.

Up until about 10 years ago your assesment would have been spot on. But I feel ever since Onkyo entered the 5.1/7.1 discrete surround receiver marketplace their amp sections have suffered compared to their competitors. IMO their last excellent amp section in a receiver was in their 828THX model.

Their flagship receivers today are stilll quite good but compared to Pioneer Elite, Yamaha and Denon, I feel they fall short in the same price categories.

In contrast, Yamaha's amp sections keep improving in their receivers with each new generation while Denon maintains a steady excellence in theirs.

 

[ChrisJam]

Their flagship receivers today are stilll quite good but compared to Pioneer Elite, Yamaha and Denon, I feel they fall short in the same price categories.

Gene, what's your opinion of the better Marantz a/v receivers (for example, the 9600, 8500, and 7500)? How do they compare to the better Onkyos, Yammies, Pioneer Elites, and Denons?

Chris

 

[gene]

Gene, what's your opinion of the better Marantz a/v receivers (for example, the 9600, 8500, and 7500)? How do they compare to the better Onkyos, Yammies, Pioneer Elites, and Denons?

Marantz is another one of those companies with ups and downs. They were up in the 70's and down in the 80s. They then released the stunning SR-18 receiver which at the time IMO was the best receiver on the market, only to replace it the following tw model cycles with an inferior product. They now seem to be on an uphill again since they joined D&M. Their new line of receivers are excellent. I hope they maintain this.

 

[anonymouse99]

Gene, I am trying to get a better feel for the relative audio performance of the Yamaha RX-V659 from your review (which has been clear, easy to understand). I read this paragraph:

"After we got through the speed tempo issue of the Porcupine DTS DVD, we had a very enjoyable listening session. The RX-V659 had no problems delivering clean and dynamic sound to fill his living room unlike he ever experienced on his Panasonic receiver. In a non-scientific comparison, the Yamaha sounded cleaner and less strained, especially at loud listening levels."

How does this non-scientific comparison rate with other receivers that you have heard as part of your higher-end unit reviews (for example say compared to Audioholic's Denon AVR-4306 review) ? Your response will help me decide if I should buy this Yamaha unit or choose the more expensive Denon AVR-2807. For example, CNET's reviewer Steve Guttenberg said in his review:

"CD sound on the Yamaha RX-V659 was crisp and clear, though lacking the sense of depth and richness we get from higher-end receivers."

I have not had the opportunity to listen to either the Yamaha RX-V659 or the Denon AVR-2807 thus trying to guage these opinions (I realize that all technical issues aside, it is ultimately a personal choice of what pleases your ears). If you can give us a sense of performance in comparison to receivers outside its class, that would be gratefully appreciated!