Yamaha RX-V3900 or NAD T785 (Refurb)

G

greggp2

Senior Audioholic
If you are interested, I know a dealer that will sell you a new Arcam with warranty for $1400 - $1500. You can use it for 6 months - a year, and likely sell it on Audiogon for almost what you paid...

With the speakers you are looking at, I'd consider an XPA-5 and just buy a pre-owned Pre/Pro from Rotel/Arcam or even Outlaw. Forget about the latest Codecs for now. You'll be in separates, which will sound much better than a receiver and when Emotiva releases the UMC-1, sell your processor for the new one. If you buy quality stuff, even pre-owned, you can use it and almost get your money back out of it...

I've learned that buying receivers from Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, etc, is pretty much like throwing your money away. At least with the high end stuff, if you buy from a reputable person, you can get most of your money back in the end..

If you PM me, I'll get you the name of the Arcam dealer that might be able to help you...

Gregg
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I would like to buy an XPA-2 amp which will cost abt 700 bucks, that leaves me 800-1000 bucks to buy a receiver which will give me all the latest codecs.

Any suggestions??
Emotiva amplifiers, while having a nice wow factor don't provide the best bang for buck. I've seen much more QC from them than most electronics manufacturers. They use very dated amplifier configurations that weigh a ton and won't stack up to a good pro amp for much less.

The Behringer EP2500 is a great example of such an amplifier that would mop the floor with an Emotiva amplifier while costing half as much as the XPA-2. The Behringer does have a fan but replacing it with a silent fan is simple and inexpensive. Yamaha pro amps are very well reputed as well, and don't have fans (they use convection cooling and they run very cool).

For a pre I might suggest Marantz's SR-5003, certainly there are plenty of other options at this point the Marantz just has appeal to me. It has the HD audio processing you need and surely some other frilley extras without going over the top. It has a shallow cabinet so mounting it will be easy. It will provide ample power to your B&Ws until your amplifiers (which ever you may choose) arrive.:)

greggp2,

Concerning discernable differences between DACs, I haven't heard any in a long time. Using a pair of Sony MDR-7506 reference headphones on many CD players, ranging from my 1986 Magnavox CDB 650 to a Pioneer Elite platter style cd player I was unable to discern any audible differences using the same program material. While my test was no level matched I heard no "harshness" from the old CD player, and no extra "warmth" or "tighter low end" from the Pioneer. Is their a measurable difference between the two players?, sure there is. The real question is can people, with good ears, hear these very subtle differences?, maybe, maybe not. I sure can't tell. The only CD players I have heard that sounded difference where ones of an obviously inferior design, such as boomboxes, portable cd players, Sony PS1 (the supposed cheap $5000 cd player, it sounds different all right, it sounds like crap, HA!), and the CD player integrated in my Teac CR-H220 (transport motors cause interference in the output stage creating slight noise I can only hear on headphones).

So DACs, unless the integration is so sloppy or it is defective in some manor it's difficult to discern differences. It's not hard to put a good preamp together for electronics manufacturers, nor DACs, or amplifiers. Naturally there are other factors that could cause one receiver to sound different from another, but those are likely to be user configurated differences. Auto EQs from different receivers will render different results making one AVR sound different from another. It's always best to use an SPL meter and get the receiver dialed in yourself. Don't rely on the receiver's gadgets if you want the best possible result. Auto EQs just allow the user to make a quick set-up that requires little effort to install and configure and will please most listeners other than the shotty EQing of subwoofers in most instances.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
If you are interested, I know a dealer that will sell you a new Arcam with warranty for $1400 - $1500. You can use it for 6 months - a year, and likely sell it on Audiogon for almost what you paid...

With the speakers you are looking at, I'd consider an XPA-5 and just buy a pre-owned Pre/Pro from Rotel/Arcam or even Outlaw. Forget about the latest Codecs for now. You'll be in separates, which will sound much better than a receiver and when Emotiva releases the UMC-1, sell your processor for the new one. If you buy quality stuff, even pre-owned, you can use it and almost get your money back out of it...

I've learned that buying receivers from Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, etc, is pretty much like throwing your money away. At least with the high end stuff, if you buy from a reputable person, you can get most of your money back in the end..

If you PM me, I'll get you the name of the Arcam dealer that might be able to help you...

Gregg
I don't have any experience with Arcam at all. If I wanted to get higher performance than a mass market receiver I wouldn't pay for a higher end receiver. My personal opinion is that if you want something better than just a regular receiver then get into separate components, at the very least amplifiers. The Preamp in the Yamaha RX-V3800 measures extremely well and according to one of the more reputed members of this site, WmAx, has a very low noise floor. That man hates noise more than must of you will ever understand. If the RX-V3900 uses the same platform you can expect similar performance. I believe the RX-V1800 and RX-V1900 use the same preamp platform as well.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
The only loop you are throwing me through is the one where I have no clue where you are getting the idea I didn't already show you plenty information "URLs" to support facts. I'm not going to do it again because it's a waste of time, or maybe your memory is just in shambles.

I am aware that NAD's latest offerings support HD audio codecs, but the unit in question in this thread does not support them. I don't see how this information has any affect on which receiver the OP should choose.
Your statement about NAD not offering the latest in h/w was genralized and did not mention that particular model. Maybe if you read to understand instead of spouting off all the time, you would have seen that I mentioned that what the OP was considering in the NAD did NOT have the latest h/w offerings and that the Yamaha was the better if these features were importtantn to him. But no, just close your eyes and start shooting. Nice going. I meant that as sarcasm just in case you don't pick up that detail either.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
So true, there isnt much to a good amp. Thats exactly why i dont understand why some manufactures dont offer longer "peace of mind warranties" cause there isnt much to go wrong.
If it is as simple as Seth claims it to be. The only manufacturer I know that stands behind its products is Bryston and if I were considering sepertaes, I would anty up for one of them. The other electroncis companies offer warranty just to appease the nervous purchaserit would seem. Look at the mosnter drap Denon puts out? Why on earth would anyone pay that much money with so little warranty? Not worth it mine books
 
G

greggp2

Senior Audioholic
So DACs, unless the integration is so sloppy or it is defective in some manor it's difficult to discern differences. It's not hard to put a good preamp together for electronics manufacturers, nor DACs, or amplifiers. Naturally there are other factors that could cause one receiver to sound different from another, but those are likely to be user configurated differences. Auto EQs from different receivers will render different results making one AVR sound different from another. It's always best to use an SPL meter and get the receiver dialed in yourself. Don't rely on the receiver's gadgets if you want the best possible result. Auto EQs just allow the user to make a quick set-up that requires little effort to install and configure and will please most listeners other than the shotty EQing of subwoofers in most instances.
Seth,

I appreciate you taking the time to type your response and present your argument. I don't however agree with it. Out of curiosity, what type of speakers do you use?

I've used different AVR's and don't use Auto Eq's other than to set up speaker distances and see if they are accurate. AVR's definitely don't sound the same. I don't buy into your argument that DAC's don't make equipment sound different and the electronics and circuitry don't make a difference. I don't think that comparing listening with headphones and listening through speakers is even comparable. Headphones don't create a sound stage, headphones don't create depth. Headphones don't replicate sitting in front of a live performance.

I do agree that if Amps have the same true power ratings and deliver clean power, that there is little to no difference in SQ. I however am not interested in changing fans on equipment, as it would likely void warranties and I'd rather buy a product and plug it, not toy with it.

Many people here like to build their own subs, etc. I respect that. That just isn't for me. I like to buy equipment and have it work right out of the box. To each is own I guess.

But all AVR's don't sound the same. No way. I have direct experience with several and they all sounded different. I think what helps you tell the difference is the speakers being used. That is why I asked what speakers you've been using to draw your opinions...
 
N

nitin_mehra20

Audioholic
Guys thanks for the great discussion, finally I have lowered down receiver choice to mass market options. Given that my need is musical in nature, at the same time i do need the latest hdmi option for gaming. Of the three, which would you guys recommend:

Yamaha 3900

Denon 3808ci

Marantz SR8002


Thanks for your time...

Gregg ARCAM350 sounds like a great choice but I do need HDMI 1.3 support :)
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Guys thanks for the great discussion, finally I have lowered down receiver choice to mass market options. Given that my need is musical in nature, at the same time i do need the latest hdmi option for gaming. Of the three, which would you guys recommend:

Yamaha 3900

Denon 3808ci

Marantz SR8002


Thanks for your time...

Gregg ARCAM350 sounds like a great choice but I do need HDMI 1.3 support :)
These are all equally great receivers. It comes down to which receiver has the best feautures for you and off course the price.
 
S

santeini

Audioholic Intern
For 70% music and 30% H/T, you are better of with NAD.I am currently using the 775 and it,s very good.
 
mouettus

mouettus

Audioholic Chief
Are you really sure you need the 3900's options over the 1900?! Look at the specs sheet. The only things I've found different are some networking abilities and other small things. You could save some money by buying the 1900 which has the same amp section.


The Marantz would still be my coice nonetheless (over the 3 you've named)
 
G

greggp2

Senior Audioholic
Are you really sure you need the 3900's options over the 1900?! Look at the specs sheet. The only things I've found different are some networking abilities and other small things. You could save some money by buying the 1900 which has the same amp section.


The Marantz would still be my coice nonetheless (over the 3 you've named)
Mouettus,

While the Amp sections look the same on paper between the 3900 and the 1900, they are not. Neither are the electronics, boards, etc. Yamaha uses this trick on all their models that look similar. I've talked to Gene about this on a different board. Check out the Z7 thread. The 3900 and the Z7 look to be almost identical. They are not. Yamaha puts better transformers, power supplies, etc into their higher priced models.

I even spoke to level 2 tech support at Yamaha. one of the techs there did an A/B comparison between the 3900 and Z7. He said the Z7 sounded much better, even though through specs it looks to only have better video control and 1 additional HDMI input.

Don't be fooled by specs alone. There is a reason that the AVR's go up in price. Better materials are used to make them...

They don't sound the same and are not the same, despite what the paper specs state.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Yamaha 3900

Denon 3808ci

Marantz SR8002
I am going to vote for the Denon if only because I'm a huge fan of XT. Marantz does not offer anything better than the vanilla MultEQ.

I'm most likely the biggest fanboy of this tech on these boards, so keep that in mind.

That said, I'd be hard pressed to think that anyone here would be terribly disappointed with any of the three, nice little list you have there.
 
N

nitin_mehra20

Audioholic
I am going to vote for the Denon if only because I'm a huge fan of XT. Marantz does not offer anything better than the vanilla MultEQ.

I'm most likely the biggest fanboy of this tech on these boards, so keep that in mind.

That said, I'd be hard pressed to think that anyone here would be terribly disappointed with any of the three, nice little list you have there.
Thanks!!!

that being said, does someone wanna comment on after sales experience with these companies? How does the customer support pan out for these comps?
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks!!!

that being said, does someone wanna comment on after sales experience with these companies? How does the customer support pan out for these comps?
If THAT was your #1 concern, I might look into the Audioholics store (Yamaha). Lifetime support, IIRC, and I'm not sure how extended the warranty is.

With Denon, you will most likely have to ask/read on different AV boards to get the most out of it. That said, in all honesty, I do that for every ******* thing I buy. For both Marantz' MultEQ, or Denon's MultEQ XT, it is imperative that you read the instructions/tips of running that calibration.

Denon and Marantz are owned by the same company. That's all I know.
 
N

nitin_mehra20

Audioholic
Ok!

Just found out that Denon does not do Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+

So its down to Marantz and Yamaha :(

After reading all the good things about ARCAM, I am very tempted to buy one :)
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
The Preamp in the Yamaha RX-V3800 measures extremely well and according to one of the more reputed members of this site, WmAx, has a very low noise floor. That man hates noise more than must of you will ever understand. If the RX-V3900 uses the same platform you can expect similar performance. I believe the RX-V1800 and RX-V1900 use the same preamp platform as well.
From what I understand, the 1*00 compared to 2*00 have the same pre-amp systems, and completely different amp sections/power supplies. I have no idea if this extends to the 3*00 pre-amp, however. I have never made any reference to the performance of the 3800. I use a 2600 as a stereo pre-amp in my main 2 channel system, and it is an absolutely transparent pre-amp and has no audible noise floor in my application, less I would not use it.

-Chris
 
G

greggp2

Senior Audioholic
-Chris,

Thanks for clearing this up... I always respect your posts, because you post based on your experience and not just opinions that aren't based on concrete facts.

This forum got a little heated between Seth and I, but seems to be under control now. I appreciate you chiming in however.

Because I value your opinion, do you think that all DACs, and Pre-Amp sections and SQ of receivers sound the same?

From what I understand, the 1*00 compared to 2*00 have the same pre-amp systems, and completely different amp sections/power supplies. I have no idea if this extends to the 3*00 pre-amp, however. I have never made any reference to the performance of the 3800. I use a 2600 as a stereo pre-amp in my main 2 channel system, and it is an absolutely transparent pre-amp and has no audible noise floor in my application, less I would not use it.

-Chris
 
G

greggp2

Senior Audioholic
Ok!

Just found out that Denon does not do Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+

So its down to Marantz and Yamaha :(

After reading all the good things about ARCAM, I am very tempted to buy one :)
I haven't found many people that could fault the Arcam on SQ. The only negative posts I've seen on this forum and others is that some people couldn't hear a difference when using the Arcam. I think that has to do with their speakers or their ears, not the Arcam unit itself.

If you can get over the HD Audio over HDMI audio and be happy listening to HD audio through the analog multi-channel inputs that the Arcam has, I can see no reason to buy one of the newer receivers other than 1 cable video hook up and video scaling. If most of your TV formats are HD or high quality digital, the scaler will do very little for you...

The SQ on the Arcam however, is supposed to be sublime!!!
Mine should arrive early next week!!!

Open boxed, full warranty, $1,300 in Black. Can't beat that IMO
 
N

nitin_mehra20

Audioholic
I haven't found many people that could fault the Arcam on SQ. The only negative posts I've seen on this forum and others is that some people couldn't hear a difference when using the Arcam. I think that has to do with their speakers or their ears, not the Arcam unit itself.

If you can get over the HD Audio over HDMI audio and be happy listening to HD audio through the analog multi-channel inputs that the Arcam has, I can see no reason to buy one of the newer receivers other than 1 cable video hook up and video scaling. If most of your TV formats are HD or high quality digital, the scaler will do very little for you...

The SQ on the Arcam however, is supposed to be sublime!!!
Mine should arrive early next week!!!

Open boxed, full warranty, $1,300 in Black. Can't beat that IMO
So here are my inputs, which currently go directly in my TV (Samsung 50" Plasma) :)

-> DirecTv HD Receiver via HDMI
-> Samsung DVD Player (Really crappy one!!!) via HDMI
-> Xbox 360 via HDMI
-> Tivo Non-HD via S-Video and regular audio cable

What would be the best way to arrange this if i go for ARCAM?
 
G

greggp2

Senior Audioholic
Ok!

Just found out that Denon does not do Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+

So its down to Marantz and Yamaha :(

After reading all the good things about ARCAM, I am very tempted to buy one :)
So here are my inputs, which currently go directly in my TV (Samsung 50" Plasma) :)

-> DirecTv HD Receiver via HDMI
-> Samsung DVD Player (Really crappy one!!!) via HDMI
-> Xbox 360 via HDMI
-> Tivo Non-HD via S-Video and regular audio cable

What would be the best way to arrange this if i go for ARCAM?
Really easy...
Run all your HDMI inputs to your TV.. Turn the volume down to 0 on the TV or off.. You can run 2 HDMI inputs into the Arcam, video only... 1 HDMI out from the Arcam to the TV.

Direct Tv - run either Optical or Coax to the Arcam
Samsung DVD - same thing, optical or coax to the Arcam. If you upgrade to Blu-Ray, that's when you would hook up the analog RCA cables to the Multi-Input's on the back of the Arcam.
X-box - same thing. HDMI for video in, Optical to the Arcam

Tivo, you can either go into the Arcam with an S-video out cable to the TV or S-video to the TV. What ever Audio cables you use, run them to the Arcam... Not sure if the Tivo has digital out or not...

The only HD Audio formats you'll have to worry about for the near future is Blu-ray and you can get that with the Multi-channel outputs on the Blu-Ray and the Multi-channel in on the Arcam...
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top