Yamaha RX-A2080 or Denon AVR-X4500H

K

kovacw

Enthusiast
Hi everyone,
I’m looking for a receiver to use in my living room for movies, music and basically everything. I have a pair of Klipsch RP-600M and I’m about to get a sub.

I’ve narrowed my search down to Yamaha RX-A2080 and Denon AVR-X4500H.
Which one do you think it’s better?

Thanks!
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Both are fine AVR's, either would serve you well I'd have no problem picking either one. For me it would come down which one has the best price and warranty.
 
hemiram

hemiram

Full Audioholic
I was on the fence on a 2080, yet another Yamaha, but I took the Denon x4500H partly for Audessey, but the 3 yr warranty pushed me over.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I’ve narrowed my search down to Yamaha RX-A2080 and Denon AVR-X4500H.
Which one do you think it’s better?

Thanks!
If you have plan to go 7.1.4 at some point, go with the Denon, if not, for the same price the A2080 may be better. If you don't like the effects of YPAO you can use the PEQ to EQ the 20-200 Hz range manually, but it will be a very time consuming process and for best results you should use something like REW for fine tuning, that's just my opinion.

Price of the 2018 models are definitely coming down, below are Canadian prices, CAD = 0.76 USD
https://www.amazon.ca/Marantz-SR7013-9-2CH-Ultra-Receiver/dp/B07GVL1Y6C/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=sr7013&qid=1563371814&s=gateway&sr=8-2

Strange enough, not quite for the Denon yet, but that's Amazon.ca
https://www.amazon.ca/Denon-AVRX4500H-Channel-Receiver-Control/dp/B07GH5GS5T/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=avr-x4500h&qid=1563371857&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Amazon.com should be following suit soon, one would think..
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
Just my 2 cents here. I am a Yamaha guy, had a bunch of them in a row. I needed a new receiver because I went up to 4k. I saw a great deal on a Denon X3400 so I bought it. Audyssey I ended up having, took the life out of the HT. Like it was constantly holding the system back. I turned it off but to me it's still missing something the Yamaha has. Almost a more lively sounds. It's like this is a but sterile but these things might just be my preference. That is just my take on the two. I would personally would like to go back to Yamaha.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Of course, you will get a different answer from everyone because we all have different experiences and reasons.

My vote is for the one I would get for myself right now, which is the Yamaha.

If you had asked me this same question 2 years ago, the answer would be the Denon. :D

Yeah, some people still give me a hard time since up until last year, I was recommending Denon (like the Denon X3000 series) to everyone. :D

What is your CURRENT AVR?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Are you asking which one SOUNDS better?

If you are not using EQ or DSP, then they both will sound the same.

One will not sound more "musical" or "warm" than the other one.

The difference in sound will occur when you apply any kind of EQ (Auto or Manual) or DSP.

Which Auto EQ is better? You will get different answers here too.

Which Manual EQ is better? That's easy. The Yamaha has a Parametric EQ (PEQ), which is a lot better than the Denon's Graphic EQ. But as already mentioned, you really shouldn't use manual EQ unless you use REW to measure your speakers in-room responses.

For now, because I am currently not using REW, I use the Yamaha PEQ only for the subwoofers and only for about 30Hz-80Hz.

If you don't use manual EQ and rely ONLY on Auto EQ, I think Audyssey XT32 might be better than YPAO.

Might also check out this thread about Denon vs Yamaha:
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/denon-marantz-vs-yamaha-vs-anthem-thread.112865/
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
If you can wait a little bit, the 4600 should be coming out before too long, which will result in a great deal on the 4500!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
If you have plan to go 7.1.4 at some point, go with the Denon, if not, for the same price the A2080 may be better. If you don't like the effects of YPAO you can use the PEQ to EQ the 20-200 Hz range manually, but it will be a very time consuming process and for best results you should use something like REW for fine tuning, that's just my opinion.
But as already mentioned, you really shouldn't use manual EQ unless you use REW to measure your speakers in-room responses.
I believe Peng was making that statement specific to the Yamaha's Parametric manual EQ.
Although REW is a great idea for any EQ, the simpler Graphic manual EQ (used by Denon) does not afford as much control as Parametric EQ but the Graphic EQ is easier to make adjustments by ear as you listen to it!
 
K

kovacw

Enthusiast
Just my 2 cents here. I am a Yamaha guy, had a bunch of them in a row. I needed a new receiver because I went up to 4k. I saw a great deal on a Denon X3400 so I bought it. Audyssey I ended up having, took the life out of the HT. Like it was constantly holding the system back. I turned it off but to me it's still missing something the Yamaha has. Almost a more lively sounds. It's like this is a but sterile but these things might just be my preference. That is just my take on the two. I would personally would like to go back to Yamaha.
I've seen that statement about a Denon receiver before.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
the Graphic EQ is easier to make adjustments by ear as you listen to it!
I think it's the OPPOSITE.

Because GEQ affects a much WIDER frequency range (no control of Q), changing one frequency will affect so much above and below that frequency.

But with PEQ, with Q=0.5, you might be affecting very little of the frequencies above and below that frequency (+/- 5Hz).

So if you adjust the 2000Hz frequency, it might affect from 1995Hz-2005Hz using PEQ (Q=0.5). But if you use GEQ, it might affect from 1800Hz-2200Hz.
 
K

kovacw

Enthusiast
Of course, you will get a different answer from everyone because we all have different experiences and reasons.

My vote is for the one I would get for myself right now, which is the Yamaha.

If you had asked me this same question 2 years ago, the answer would be the Denon. :D

Yeah, some people still give me a hard time since up until last year, I was recommending Denon (like the Denon X3000 series) to everyone. :D

What is your CURRENT AVR?
My current AVR is a Pioneer Vsx534.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I've seen that statement about a Denon receiver before.
Audyssey XT32 typically would flatten the 18-120 Hz very effectively. To a lot of people, especially those who listen at lower spl, that equates to "took the life out of the HT.." It is easy to understand why a lot of people, if not most, prefer bass in that region to ramp up towards the low end, not flat. Neutrality/Accuracy does not always equal good sound quality to people watching movies in their own home.

If you increase the subwoofer level by 2 to 4 dB post Audyssey auto setup run, and turn DEQ on DV off, you should be able to regain what Audyssey auto setup might have taken away. Ideally, everyone should purchase the Editor App and use it to shape the 18-120 Hz range to one's liking. The results will not follow the target curve exactly, but it will try to get close to it.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I don't know if that was a rhetorical question but I do care more about which sounds better than bells and whistles.
But the problem is, "sounds better..." to you, as ADTG alluded to, could be "sounds worse..." to others. In a DBT, pure direct mode, I am very confident they will sound the same, all else being equal of course. Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, Marantz, all design their preamp and power amps to sound transparent, it's the EQ, auto or manual, and DSP effects that make them to sound different, again all else being equal.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I think it's the OPPOSITE.

Because GEQ affects a much WIDER frequency range (no control of Q),changing one frequency will affect so much above and below that frequency.

But with PEQ, with Q=0.5, you might be affecting very little of the frequencies above and below that frequency (+/- 5Hz).

So if you adjust the 2000Hz frequency, it might affect from 1995Hz-2005Hz using PEQ (Q=0.5). But if you use GEQ, it might affect from 1800Hz-2200Hz.
The problem is, if you don't have a FR curve to reference to after each adjustment, PEQ or Graphic, it will be a hit and miss thing to some extents. For example, you can select a +3 gain to 70 Hz with a Q of 0.5, the overall result may be worse than if you don't, and the dip at 70 Hz observed before may not change much at all after the adjustment. I did play with PEQ using REW's generated equalizers for a miniDSP 4XHD and that should be better than just manually adjusting them on the Yamaha. So what I am saying below is in based on my user experience, that seems to be consistent with what I read about how various REQ filters work.

Again, I don't know enough to explain the "why" part, but I do know if you do it manually by adjusting the gain and Q using Yamaha's interface, the resulting curve will most likely not follow the target curve too closely. Then you will have to keep playing with the gain and Q, try going in both directions, and then run the sweeps again to watch for improvements. You may have to do it in incremental ways many times, and may not get too close to the target curve, but hopefully closer to it. Using the Audyssey Editor App has similar issues. For example, if you shape the curve in such a way it ramps up 2 dB/ octave (just an example) from 100 Hz towards 15 Hz, the resulting curve may follow the trend generally, but it won't necessarily be 2 dB/octave. So it helps a lot in general but don't expect the actual results follow the target exactly.

Audyssey (FIR type filters, Dirac Live (mixed FIR and IIR type) should, at least in theory, be more effective as they are inherently more powerful. They do need powerful DAPs to run well, and that may be the reason why XT32 is only offered in the higher D&M models, that have more powerful DSPs.

I think you are wise to apply PEQ to the 30-80 Hz range because that obviously would simplify the process and take a lot less time to achieve satisfactory results than to go all the way to 200 Hz or higher.
 
Last edited:
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The problem is, if you don't have a FR curve to reference to after each adjustment, PEQ or Graphic, it will be a hit and miss thing to some extents. For example, you can select a +3 gain to 70 Hz with a Q of 0.5, the overall result may be worse than if you don't, and the dip at 70 Hz observed before may not change much at all after the adjustment. I did play with PEQ using REW's generated equalizers for a miniDSP 4XHD and that should be better than just manually adjusting them on the Yamaha. So what I am saying below is in based on my user experience, that seems to be consistent with what I read about how various REQ filters work.

Again, I don't know enough to explain the "why" part, but I do know if you do it manually by adjusting the gain and Q using Yamaha's interface, the resulting curve will most likely not follow the target curve too closely. Then you will have to keep playing with the gain and Q, try going in both directions, and then run the sweeps again to watch for improvements. You may have to do it in incremental ways many times, and may not get too close to the target curve, but hopefully closer to it. Using the Audyssey Editor App has similar issues. For example, if you shape the curve in such a way it ramps up 2 dB/ octave (just an example) from 100 Hz towards 15 Hz, the resulting curve may follow the trend generally, but it won't necessarily be 2 dB/octave. So it helps a lot in general but don't expect the actual results follow the target exactly.

Audyssey (FIR type filters, Dirac Live (mixed FIR and IIR type) should, at least in theory, be more effective as they are inherently more powerful. They do need powerful DAPs to run well, and that may be the reason why XT32 is only offered in the higher D&M models, that have more powerful DSPs.

I think you are wise to apply PEQ to the 30-80 Hz range because that obviously would simply the process and take a lot less time to achieve satisfactory results than to go all the way to 200 Hz or higher.
Yup. I would not dare try any kind of EQ (PEQ or GEQ) without using REW; and even then, as you said, it may not be that great. :D

So I may just play with PEQ + REW for fun. But may end up just EQ only 30Hz-80Hz like I do now. :D

I may go back to Gene’s review of the CX-A5100 and see if he talked about specifics on the YPAO + PEQ + KEW.
 
K

kovacw

Enthusiast
Would you guys consider the alternative of changing the Klipsch RP-600M speakers for Edifier S3000PRO and forget the receiver?

That Edifier model has been highly praised.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I don't know if that was a rhetorical question but I do care more about which sounds better than bells and whistles.
In Direct, Stereo, Straight modes where you are not using any EQ or DSP, both the Denon and Yamaha will sound equally good.
 
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