Yamaha dsp-z7 3d compatibility

[IIIKoDiaKIII]

I am curious why Yamaha and other companies are not providing firmware updates to their 09/10 product lines to allow 3D compatbility. I know they all say it's a hardware issue and not a firmware issue... but that isn't completely true. The DSP-Z7 is completely 3D compatible (it plays 3D content without any problems from the XBOX 360 and PS3), but it doesn't broadcast itself as a 3D device. Because of this my Samsung BD6900 3D Blu Ray player won't allow a 3D signal to pass through it. All Yamaha needs to do is write some code that tells it to broadcast itself as a 3D device and it would resolve the problem. However they won't do this because they want everyone to buy the newer model. This receiver was expensive... very expensive, Yamaha should provide this proper service to it's customers.... IMO.

 

[jeannot]

I am curious why Yamaha and other companies are not providing firmware updates to their 09/10 product lines to allow 3D compatbility. I know they all say it's a hardware issue and not a firmware issue... but that isn't completely true. The DSP-Z7 is completely 3D compatible (it plays 3D content without any problems from the XBOX 360 and PS3), but it doesn't broadcast itself as a 3D device. Because of this my Samsung BD6900 3D Blu Ray player won't allow a 3D signal to pass through it. All Yamaha needs to do is write some code that tells it to broadcast itself as a 3D device and it would resolve the problem. However they won't do this because they want everyone to buy the newer model. This receiver was expensive... very expensive, Yamaha should provide this proper service to it's customers.... IMO.

I would tend to agree with you that it is a marketing move, if some company were offering a software solution to upgrade from to 1.3a to 1.4a and not others. I have not seen such upgrade.

The Denon 5805 was a case in point. It costed about $6k, and had an Ethernet jack in the back, but owners needed to throw $900 at the hardware upgrade to have it Internet-aware. The 5805MKii had the capability standard.

I think 1.4a also brings bi-directional sound, they may have bundled that capability with the 3D in one package for an all-or-nothing, "à la Congress".

I'm in the same boat, with a 3808CI that does not do 1.4a and probably never will.

 

[IIIKoDiaKIII]

Can your receiver pass through any 3D at all or no. A good way to test this would be... connect a XBOX 360 or PS3 to your receiver and see if you can get the 3D content on your 3D TV. My receiver does pass thru the 3D content from these devices. I emailed Yamaha about this and this was the response I got....

The DSP-Z7 features HDMI 1.3 technology and was never marketed as 3D
compatible. There is no firmware available or being developed.

Regards,

Mike Guernsey
Yamaha Canada
(647)426-4201

Notice there was no denial that the receiver is actually 3D capable... just that it wasn't marketed as such. And they didn't answer any of my questions.... just a blank statement. LAME!!

 

[Rushboyz]

Make them accountable

I am in the same boat. Spent a butt load of money on the amp and find out that it isn't 3D capable now.

Not sure if anyone is up to it but social networking(Facebook and Twitter) are powerful tools. Would be willing to start a group on both of these forums to force them to write the firmware. It is kinda nice that you can reach a potential 100 million customers and warn them off of a company.

Anyone found a work around yet ?

 

[BMXTRIX]

People don't seem to get what the issue is.

HDMI 1.4 and the frame packed format of Blu-ray does not add data rates beyond what HDMI 1.3 already delivered.

But, it introduces a brand new resolution.

This is the key issue with 3D. It's not that the receiver can't handle the bandwidth, it is that the chips which process video, and are NOT firmware upgradable, are completely incapable of recognizing the resolution.

Now, cheaper receivers which do not touch the video, but pass it through, may actually do a better job with 3D because they don't have video processing.

But, those receivers which apply a GUI over the image, are actively processing the incoming video and must recognize it.

While a very limited few may offer firmware upgradability to the graphics processing engine which drives things, most do not. It's an expensive feature to offer, and generally it is direct hardware accelleration on the chips which are purpose built to handle standard video resolutions which drives the ship.

This isn't a workaround thing, it's just a 'you can't have it' thing.

So, you go to a player with dual HDMI outputs and you are good to go! Maybe.

 

[IIIKoDiaKIII]

Ummm... I would disagree with you... because my receiver... which is "not" 3D compatible passes 3D content thru perfectly fine as long as the Blu Ray player isn't looking for a 3D receiver. Like I said in my first post on this thread... the XBOX and Computer both play 3D content perfectly thru my receiver. And when I contacted Yamaha about the issue they never denied that it was actually 3D compatible... they simply said they aren't and won't be working on new firmware for it because they are focusing on new models. LAME!!!

As for Rushboyz... the only work around is getting a Blu Ray player with 2 HDMI outs. These players are designed for just our situation. One HDMI outputs the 3D signal(which goes to yer TV), while the other outputs a non 3D signal(which goes to yer receiver) which then allows you to get the perfect picture and sound... but you need a new BR Player\.

Do not try using an HDMI splitter... even the ones that say they are made specifically for this purpose... DO NOT WORK. All they do is split the signal... they do not make one output downgrade to non 3D. And they don't trick the Bluray player into thinking it's connected to a non 3D device.

So as I said earlier... yer only work around is getting a new Blu Ray player... the one I'm looking at is the Samsung BD-D6700.

 

[M Code]

People don't seem to get what the issue is.

HDMI 1.4 and the frame packed format of Blu-ray does not add data rates beyond what HDMI 1.3 already delivered.

But, it introduces a brand new resolution.

This is the key issue with 3D. It's not that the receiver can't handle the bandwidth, it is that the chips which process video, and are NOT firmware upgradable, are completely incapable of recognizing the resolution.

Now, cheaper receivers which do not touch the video, but pass it through, may actually do a better job with 3D because they don't have video processing.

But, those receivers which apply a GUI over the image, are actively processing the incoming video and must recognize it.

While a very limited few may offer firmware upgradability to the graphics processing engine which drives things, most do not. It's an expensive feature to offer, and generally it is direct hardware accelleration on the chips which are purpose built to handle standard video resolutions which drives the ship.

This isn't a workaround thing, it's just a 'you can't have it' thing.

So, you go to a player with dual HDMI outputs and you are good to go! Maybe.

Most AVRs that have had an upgrade to 1.4 do it by having an electrical total video bypass mode such as the HKs 360/2600/460/3600/660/760 and 7550HD.. But in the bypass mode there is no GUI or video processing modes available. Also certain 1.4 features are not supported such as ARC.

The basic challenge is not the bandwidth at least for the (6) mandatory 3-D standards in 1.4, but rather the unique S/W header HDMI files..

Just my $0.02...

 

[Rushboyz]

So basically I now have an Expensive boat anchor

 

[IIIKoDiaKIII]

LOL... no Rushboyz... if you have a really good receiver... keep it as yer main receiver and replace yer Blu Ray player as I said earlier. Get one with dual HDMI outs. This way yer receiver will do everything it is supposed to do with the audio, yer just not passing video through it. Video will go directly to the TV from the Blu Ray to get full 3D.

 

[M Code]

So basically I now have an Expensive boat anchor

Nope..
Just an expensive anchor that is not HDMI 1.4 compatible..

Just my $0.02...

 

[BMXTRIX]

Ummm... I would disagree with you... because my receiver... which is "not" 3D compatible passes 3D content thru perfectly fine as long as the Blu Ray player isn't looking for a 3D receiver. Like I said in my first post on this thread... the XBOX and Computer both play 3D content perfectly thru my receiver. And when I contacted Yamaha about the issue they never denied that it was actually 3D compatible... they simply said they aren't and won't be working on new firmware for it because they are focusing on new models. LAME!!!

Not sure on the specific output formats of your computer or the X360. I don't believe either will be using frame packed 3D though. The most common 3D most people will be speaking of now is going to be Blu-ray 3D, which is frame packed, which your receiver likely won't support. Perhaps it will, as I said, as if there is not a GUI, it may pass it cleanly through the receiver.

Not arguing that some can't do it, but the more mid-grade the receiver is, and most expensive ones will start running into issues because of their advanced feature sets.

As another poster pointed out, some receivers have a GUI bypass which passes video through untouched, and may work just fine as well.

BUT: The holdup is not firmware. It's whether the receiver can do it at all.

If your intent is to use Blu-ray 3D, then the only promise is receivers marketed as Blu-ray 3D compatible, or more likely, HDMI 1.4 compatible.

Better are the BD players with dual HDMI outputs. Far less money and readily available.

 

[BMXTRIX]

So basically I now have an Expensive boat anchor

Yes, you bought yourself a boat anchor since it won't work for the needs that it specifically wasn't sold to you to be provided.