Yamaha CX-A5200 and MX-A5200

[poleepkwa]

I have a 5.1.4 system, but I still set it up for 7.1.

I don't think I've ever set it to 5.1. So I don't know about this.

If there was an option to set it up for 9.1, I would set it up for 9.1, even though my system is 5.1.

I do not understand what you are trying to say?
My question is as follows:
Yamaha: 5.1 setup - > no atmos
Yamaha: 7.1 setup - > Atmos
Denon: 5.1 setup - > Atmos
Denon: 7.1 setup - > Atmos

Is this a limitation setup by Yamaha as it wants at least a 7.1 or 5.1.2 system to enable Atmos?
I understood that Atmos will scale according to speakers, no matter how many you have?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Whuuut?????

I mean in Kodi, Plex, or Windows PC settings, not in the AVR or AVP settings.

For the AVP/AVR, definitely set it up for whatever you have - 5.1 for 5.1.

For Plex, Kodi, Windows, I always set it up for the max speakers available and let the AVR/AVP decode the bitstream. I don’t think it matters, but that’s what I do. The reason is because I don’t trust what Kodi, Plex, Windows do. So just give me everything they have in bitstream and my AVP/AVR will do the actual decoding.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I do not understand what you are trying to say?
My question is as follows:
Yamaha: 5.1 setup - > no atmos
Yamaha: 7.1 setup - > Atmos
Denon: 5.1 setup - > Atmos
Denon: 7.1 setup - > Atmos

Is this a limitation setup by Yamaha as it wants at least a 7.1 or 5.1.2 system to enable Atmos?
I understood that Atmos will scale according to speakers, no matter how many you have?

Oh, I thought you meant the setup in Plex/Kodi. For the setup in AVP, I do have it set up for 5.1.4. I get Atmos/DTSX for both Kodi and Plex.

 

[poleepkwa]

Oh, I thought you meant the setup in Plex/Kodi. For the setup in AVP, I do have it set up for 5.1.4. I get Atmos/DTSX for both Kodi and Plex.

I am using a Nvidia Shield. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am using a Nvidia Shield. Thanks for the explanation.

Yeah for setup in the CX-A5200, 5.1.4 should give you Atmos 5.1.4.

 

[poleepkwa]

Yes, however I have only have a 5.1 system currently as I am building my new speakers. So I noticed that Netflix was not showing Atmos anymore like it used too when I had 7.1.

 

[logics8]

Do you have any insight as to if there will be a CX-A5300 within the next year or so?

 

[IvanBG]

Hi all,
first sorry for my bad English.
So, about CX-A5200 front L/R XLR issue.
For volume control Yamaha use 2 BD34703KS2 chips (IC701 and IC702). I looked in detail at the service manuals of CX-A5200 and RX-A3060. If RX-A3060 is not affected of this issue the only difference I see are connection between pins 19,20 of these 2 chips. In CX-A5200 pins 19,20 of IC701 responsible for front L/R XLR output (pins 8,10 for unbalanced outputs). But pins 19,20 of IC702 are responsible for front rear presence L/R. There is no connection between pins 19,20 of IC701 and pins 19,20 of IC702.
In RX-A3060 these pins (IC701 and IC702) are connected in parallel with jumpers. I have no idea how it is for CX-A5100. No service manual for comparation.

 

[IvanBG]

RX-A3060 has no balanced outputs, so it cannot be affected by this issue. Need of service manual of CX-A5100 or RX-A3080 for comparation.

 

[PENG]

Aside from the XLR issue, I have been wondering about what kind of vol control Yamaha has been using in their prepro. I searched hard for the info but found none, couldn't even find a link to purchase their service manual.

Your post just answered my question (so thank you very much for sharing the info), as expected/not surprisingly, it has the same LSI chip as their receivers.

I am not a believer in (as ADTG knows I agreed with him) the importance of THD+N/SINAD being better than 0.005%/86 dB, so it is not a practical issue for me. Still, the fact is, that LSI chip is the same one used in many AVRs including the entry level models, and that could explain why their pre out did not measure as good as Denon's on the ASR bench, or AH/Gene's if compared to the SR8015 he recently measured.

If Yamaha would upgrade that LSI chip to one that is comparable, hopefully better than Denon/Marantz's, I would likely switch back to prepro. This time likely the CX-A5300, but again, that would condition on them using a better volume control chip. I don't care if I could hear a difference. To me it is a matter of principle, that if I pay more for prepro, I want one that has higher quality parts and measure better than AVRs.

 

[PENG]

RX-A3060 has no balanced outputs, so it cannot be affected by this issue. Need of service manual of CX-A5100 or RX-A3080 for comparation.

Good point, I think the 3070 has balanced output (FL/FR) too, like the 3080.

 

[IvanBG]

Thank you PENG !
I upload CX-A5200 service manual here:
https://dox.abv.bg/download?id=aac8c94516
This link will be active for 14 days.

gene says that only front L/R XLR are affected. In service manual the only difference between front and other channels is that all other channels used common outputs of IC701 and IC702 for balanced and unbalanced. Only front channels used different outputs: pins 19,20 for balanced, pins 8,10 -->unbalanced.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Aside from the XLR issue, I have been wondering about what kind of vol control Yamaha has been using in their prepro. I searched hard for the info but found none, couldn't even find a link to purchase their service manual.

Your post just answered my question (so thank you very much for sharing the info), as expected/not surprisingly, it has the same LSI chip as their receivers.

I am not a believer in (as ADTG knows I agreed with him) the importance of THD+N/SINAD being better than 0.005%/86 dB, so it is not a practical issue for me. Still, the fact is, that LSI chip is the same one used in many AVRs including the entry level models, and that could explain why their pre out did not measure as good as Denon's on the ASR bench, or AH/Gene's if compared to the SR8015 he recently measured.

If Yamaha would upgrade that LSI chip to one that is comparable, hopefully better than Denon/Marantz's, I would likely switch back to prepro. This time likely the CX-A5300, but again, that would condition on them using a better volume control chip. I don't care if I could hear a difference. To me it is a matter of principle, that if I pay more for prepro, I want one that has higher quality parts and measure better than AVRs.

It would be nice if the Yamaha engineers would agree to what appears to be a simple request.

And I also agree that I probably wouldn't pay $2700 for a Pre-pro either. And definitely would not pay over $2K for any AVR.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

RX-A3060 has no balanced outputs, so it cannot be affected by this issue. Need of service manual of CX-A5100 or RX-A3080 for comparation.

That would be interesting to see since (as Gene says) neither the CX-A5100 nor RX-A3080 has the same Front L/R XLR effects.

 

[PENG]

It would be nice if the Yamaha engineers would agree to what appears to be a simple request.

And I also agree that I probably wouldn't pay $2700 for a Pre-pro either. And definitely would not pay over $2K for any AVR.

I think it is reasonable, and I bet you too wouldn't mind paying $10 more for a better chip choice.

Yamaha's BD34703KS3 for volume control and other functions:
If you buy one of that chip, it costs $11.76, if you buy 1000, it drops to $3.92
BD34703KS2 Stock and Price by Distributor (findchips.com)

D+M's MSI chip for volume control only:
NJU72343
$2.89 for 1, $1.73 for 500
NJU72343V-TE1 NJR | Mouser

Overall D+M's cost would be a little higher, all else being equal, because that chip is for volume control only and will have to be used with several multiplexor/switchers, as explained in the HTHI article:

AVR-Audio Video Reciever-Build Quality: Part V - HomeTheaterHifi.com

Based on Dr. Rich's findings, "sound quality" in AVRs are likely determined (or limited) by the volume chip, not the DAC, and D+M appears to be the first adopters.

I know of at least one older Arcam flag ship AVR (Arcam seems to have gone backward on their recent models), had used the even better Cirrus logic chip the CS3318. That is the one I hope Yamaha will adopt if and when they are ready to switch from LSI to MSI for the import volume control.

That may be a tall order though, because the CS3318's unit price is $37.31, only down to about $24 for quantify of 1,000 or more.

Still, it is a very reasonable request for Yamaha to at least use the same MSI chips that D+M are using, but double the quantity for differential connection to the very nice ES9026 Pro that they currently are using in the CX-A5000 series.

As dealer, may be you can email them a link to Dr. Rich's article.

I think D+M made their upgrade has something to do with HTHF's 5 part series on AVR build quality but that's just my educated guest based on the fact that they had previous listened to him and upgraded the HDAMs once, started in about 2014/15 and appeared to have done again but limited to the SR8015 only so far.

The point is, detailed measurements by the likes of AH, HTHF, and now ASR do have influence.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think it is reasonable, and I bet you too wouldn't mind paying $10 more for a better chip choice.

Yamaha's BD34703KS3 for volume control and other functions:
If you buy one of that chip, it costs $11.76, if you buy 1000, it drops to $3.92
BD34703KS2 Stock and Price by Distributor (findchips.com)

D+M's MSI chip for volume control only:
NJU72343
$2.89 for 1, $1.73 for 500
NJU72343V-TE1 NJR | Mouser

Overall D+M's cost would be a little higher, all else being equal, because that chip is for volume control only and will have to be used with several multiplexor/switchers, as explained in the HTHI article:

AVR-Audio Video Reciever-Build Quality: Part V - HomeTheaterHifi.com

View attachment 42764

Based on Dr. Rich's findings, "sound quality" in AVRs are likely determined (or limited) by the volume chip, not the DAC, and D+M appears to be the first adopters.

I know of at least one older Arcam flag ship AVR (Arcam seems to have gone backward on their recent models), had used the even better Cirrus logic chip the CS3318. That is the one I hope Yamaha will adopt if and when they are ready to switch from LSI to MSI for the import volume control.

That may be a tall order though, because the CS3318's unit price is $37.31, only down to about $24 for quantify of 1,000 or more.

Still, it is a very reasonable request for Yamaha to at least use the same MSI chips that D+M are using, but double the quantity for differential connection to the very nice ES9026 Pro that they currently are using in the CX-A5000 series.

As dealer, may be you can email them a link to Dr. Rich's article.

I think D+M made their upgrade has something to do with HTHF's 5 part series on AVR build quality but that's just my educated guest based on the fact that they had previous listened to him and upgraded the HDAMs once, started in about 2014/15 and appeared to have done again but limited to the SR8015 only so far.

The point is, detailed measurements by the likes of AH, HTHF, and now ASR do have influence.

For sure I wouldn't mind paying more.

I am also sure @M Code has 100x more influence than I when it comes to Yamaha engineers.

But at the same time - everyone needs to also understand that it does NOT affect the Sound Quality at all. It will improve the "Labs", but it will not improve the "Patient".

But at the same time, I do prefer to improve both the patient and the labs.

Nothing wrong with having both good sound and good numbers.

 

[PENG]

For sure I wouldn't mind paying more.

I am also sure @M Code has 100x more influence than I when it comes to Yamaha engineers.

But at the same time - everyone needs to also understand that it does NOT affect the Sound Quality at all. It will improve the "Labs", but it will not improve the "Patient".

But at the same time, I do prefer to improve both the patient and the labs.

Nothing wrong with having both good sound and good numbers.

Agreed, not much practical meaning, just pride, engineering excellence etc. etc..... Actually, they should upgrade to the flag ship Sabre DAC too such as the 9038 pro, leave the 9026 pro to their AVR lines. If they do those things, anyone who don't care much about REQ over at sites like ASR will consider Yamaha a great alternative, and perhaps a clear winner if the better reliability thing is real even for the recent models. I thought M Code was looking for more up to date info on that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Agreed, not much practical meaning, just pride, engineering excellence etc. etc..... Actually, they should upgrade to the flag ship Sabre DAC too such as the 9038 pro, leave the 9026 pro to their AVR lines. If they do those things, anyone who don't care much about REQ over at sites like ASR will consider Yamaha a great alternative, and perhaps a clear winner if the better reliability thing is real even for the recent models. I thought M Code was looking for more up to date info on that.

Yeah, pros and cons to each.

If only they would do the things we WANT them to do! It seems SO EASY. Why can't they think like us?

 

[kraush]

Hi,
I'm Hans from Europe/Austria and new to the forum.
I'm contemplating to buy the CX-A5200 for a 7.1 system. For the speakers I think of buying (gradually) active ones, connected per XLR. There is empty piping for that (Surround/Surround Back) in the walls of my living room.
Now my question: a local radio station has a Dolby Surround stream <https://oe1dd.mdn.ors.at/out/u/oe1dd/manifest.m3u8>. Is the Internet Radio section of the CX-A5200 able to cope with that? Or are ther any other solutions for that problem?
Thanks for any answers, Hans

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hi,
I'm Hans from Europe/Austria and new to the forum.
I'm contemplating to buy the CX-A5200 for a 7.1 system. For the speakers I think of buying (gradually) active ones, connected per XLR. There is empty piping for that (Surround/Surround Back) in the walls of my living room.
Now my question: a local radio station has a Dolby Surround stream <https://oe1dd.mdn.ors.at/out/u/oe1dd/manifest.m3u8>. Is the Internet Radio section of the CX-A5200 able to cope with that? Or are ther any other solutions for that problem?
Thanks for any answers, Hans

You’re asking if the CX-A5200‘s Internet Radio can pick up that Radio station?

Let’s see if anyone here as used the Internet Radio feature. Last time I listened to any kind of radio in the house was probably 20 years ago.

@Gmoney might know more about Internet Radio.