Yamaha A-S1100 vs A-S2100

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caustic386

Audiophyte
Ratings
3
#1
I know Audioholics is a big fan of the Yamaha integrateds - just wondering if anyone has experience with the 1100 or 2100? On paper they're virtually identical - the 2100 has XLR in and a 3dB lower noise floor, but other than that does anyone what the differences are? Or heard the units firsthand and can comment on performance?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
4,049 22 4
#2
The 1100 doesn't have meters!
Ohhh! Get the one with the meters! Ohhh, pretty meters!




Seriously, in that price range for a 105 WPC integrated amp, you are no longer looking at performance per dollar, so why not get meters!:)
 
C

caustic386

Audiophyte
Ratings
3
#3
The 1100 does have meters, I believe? I'm more interested, though, in your statement "no longer looking at performance per dollar" - how do you mean? My source is a BDP-105, if that matters at all. I don't need, really, anything more than just an amp but I have a really good offer on both the 2100 and 1100 so weighing my options...
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
2,219 6 2
#4
It appears that they both have the meters. The 2100 appears to be a bit more refined (more rounded wooden corners),has more internal shielding (accounts for the lower SNR),and possibly slightly beefier capacitors (hard to tell). You've already noted the other significant differences here. Is the cost of the 2100 negligible or no object?

I also see the 2100 offers MC/MM phono cartridge selection (not necessary unless you're planning on getting into vinyl and you think you'll be using a MM cart.)

It also appears that the 2100 has a fully discrete headphone amplifier, where the 1100 does a step down.
 
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caustic386

Audiophyte
Ratings
3
#5
The cost is about $500 more than the S1100, but if the amp circuitry is identical then my choice is clear. I really only need a single in/out - the volume knob is nice to have for some attenuation, but even that is optional. Honestly I had never considered Yamaha before (I currently have a McIntosh 150W that is within the return period) but when someone offered me this deal I had to consider it - it's hard to beat the price/performance of a $500 NIB S1100 or $1k NIB S2100. That being said, I absolutely love the McIntosh...
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
4,049 22 4
#6
The 1100 does have meters, I believe? I'm more interested, though, in your statement "no longer looking at performance per dollar" - how do you mean? My source is a BDP-105, if that matters at all. I don't need, really, anything more than just an amp but I have a really good offer on both the 2100 and 1100 so weighing my options...
My mistake!
I knew the previous A-S1000 did not have meters and assumed:( the A-S1100 didn't either!

How much are you looking at for those two models?

The standard price for the A-S1100 is $2500, which I consider pricey for 2 channels at 105 watts.

Sorry, I did not mean to be snarky! The Yamaha has lots of refinement for the price, but you get into a real question of how good is good enough. Can you really hear a difference? No doubt, the build quality is really nice.

I guess there were two thoughts behind my comment. Mainly, that is a lot of money to pay for 105 WPC!

First, you can buy a mainstream AVR like the Denon AVR-X5200 for well below $1000 that will match the power and give you tons of additional features.

But, even as a stereo only system $2500 is a lot!

You might consider this Parasound pre-amp, plus two of these 200 watt Outlaw monoblocks for total of $1460

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC2100
https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html

This one gives more power at $1850:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-yss3Ao...839424283&awdv=c&awkw=azur 851a&awmt=p&awnw=g

More in keeping with where I am at. I would look at this combo for $400 total (note that this pre only has digital inputs-no RCA jacks - perfect for your Oppo, but not if you have legacy gear to connect):
https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/xda-2-gen2
http://www.amazon.com/Crown-DriveCo...qid=1446587286&sr=1-1&keywords=crown+xls-1500

Or, if you want matching components this pre with two of these mono-blocks at $1160:
https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/xda-2-gen2
https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-1l

The best advice I can give you is to save money on your amplification and spend it on your speakers!
Maybe you have your ultimate speakers, but you will hear a difference between two different sets of speakers. I seriously doubt you will hear a difference between any of the systems I outline above and the Yamaha (unless the Yamaha doesn't have enough power for your speakers/volume level).

What speakers do you have? 100 watts will probably do fine, but we should really ask that before any amp recommendation. For all we know, you may be running Magnepans which would be a whole different ball game!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
4,049 22 4
#7
Sorry, I missed your post. If you can get the A-S1100 for $500, buy it (buy one for me and I'll pay you $750 for it - I do want me some meters - one of these days:)).

That is not a discount, that is a gift!
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
2,219 6 2
#8
The cost is about $500 more than the S1100, but if the amp circuitry is identical then my choice is clear. I really only need a single in/out - the volume knob is nice to have for some attenuation, but even that is optional. Honestly I had never considered Yamaha before (I currently have a McIntosh 150W that is within the return period) but when someone offered me this deal I had to consider it - it's hard to beat the price/performance of a $500 NIB S1100 or $1k NIB S2100. That being said, I absolutely love the McIntosh...
The circuitry is not identical. There's a bit more going on inside the 2100. This can be seen by visiting Yamaha's website and observing the pictures of the internals of these two amplifiers.

That said, if you love the MacIntosh I would suggest keeping it. It's more of a statement piece and I'm sure it's far from underrated.
 
C

caustic386

Audiophyte
Ratings
3
#9
Thanks guys - I did decide to keep the McIntosh. The sound I have right now is better than I could have expected, so why fix what's not broken? Thanks!
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
2,219 6 2
#10
Sorry for the incoming "firearms" reference to any it may offend or confuse.

I'd equate trading from the McIntosh to the Yamaha to trading a Colt 1911 from 1918 in collector condition for a new Springfield TRP. Sure the TRP has modern features that make it better in certain ways but in reality the residual value will diminish on one and not the other and the Colt still works great and is a pleasure just to have.
 
G

Gary Parker

Audiophyte
#11
Some of the information I read here is not accurate. The A-S1100 and A-S2100 both have meters and both have excellent discrete MC/MM phono stages. As for the comparison of these amps to the Denon AVR, the AVR is not even in the same league as far as ability, quality of build/components, and sound. The Mcintosh probably has a warmer sound, and I don't know what price you paid, but if you were able to get the Yamahas NIB for the prices you indicated, you should have jumped on one of them. Nice units. I've heard Mcintosh units and they are really high quality, but do they really sound that much better than some lesser price brands given the price differential? I believe buying a Mcintosh is akin to buying a Rolex versus an Omega watch. Snob appeal on both but more so for the Rolex. But I prefer the Omega price justification point.
 
O

OldSchool Days

Audiophyte
#12
I know Audioholics is a big fan of the Yamaha integrateds - just wondering if anyone has experience with the 1100 or 2100? On paper they're virtually identical - the 2100 has XLR in and a 3dB lower noise floor, but other than that does anyone what the differences are? Or heard the units firsthand and can comment on performance?


Hello
I see this is an old thread but here is some details about S1100, S-2100, S-3000 for you guys.

"There are countless differences... aside from better internal components, the A-S3000 has a shorter signal path with very little solder. Critical points use brass washers and screws that are tightened to a specific pressure. Internal wiring is better and thicker gauge. Copper plating and aluminum are used throughout the chassis." Just how much heritage was retained from the A-S3000? The huge strength here is the direct translation of the preamp stage from the big brother, making the A-S2100 integrated fully balanced from input to output. It sports a single pair of traditional XLR for full-fledged balanced but also does internal conversion of the single ended inputs to balanced. The junior sibling A-S1100 moves to a layout of entirely separate circuits for balanced and single ended and gives up the conversion.

Power supplies on the A-S2100 and A-S1100 are somewhat different. Caps in the 2100 spec out at 22'000µF per cap x 4 vs. 18'000µF per cap x 4 for the 1100. Between the 2100 and flagship 3000, the most interesting divergence lies in the transformer. It shows that Yamaha aren't playing a deceptive bigger-is-better numbers game. "The A-S3000 has actually a slightly smaller toroidal transformer of 626VA vs. the slightly larger EI in the A-S2100 but the 3000 in fact sounds more powerful because its internal impedance is very low." Each of the models offer left/right symmetrical designs in escalating levels of sophistication and also attacks resonance control with increasing levels of mechanical isolation and rigidity in relation to their price tags. The flagship A-S3000 and the A-S2100 receive the benefit of height-adjustable spiked feet with the ingenious incorporation of removable magnetic padded caps for a choice of contact interface on whatever surface they will rest upon.


Enjoy Music..
 

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