Yamaha A-780 Sub Question

Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
I've been using the A-780 without issues, or so I thought, since 2018. I was checking my settings today and decided to run a Tone Check. I could hear the tone from all of my speakers but the sub. I had just updated to firmware 2.01 but that usually doesn't change anything. I contacted the Sub mfr (Emotiva) and according to them, the sub settings were correct. If I run a YouTube 5.1 sub test, I can't get any sound out of the sub. So, is there a setting I need to check or change on the A-780 before considering that the sub has died.

The sub is set to LFE with the x-over set to max (120Hz) as recommended. Phase is Normal.

The A-780 uses manual speaker settings (the YPAO settings didn't sound right to me). Audio is set to DSP Straight, Power Amp Assign is Basic, Configuration is Small, Bass Boost is Off, Phase is Normal.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I've been using the A-780 without issues, or so I thought, since 2018. I was checking my settings today and decided to run a Tone Check. I could hear the tone from all of my speakers but the sub. I had just updated to firmware 2.01 but that usually doesn't change anything. I contacted the Sub mfr (Emotiva) and according to them, the sub settings were correct. If I run a YouTube 5.1 sub test, I can't get any sound out of the sub. So, is there a setting I need to check or change on the A-780 before considering that the sub has died.

The sub is set to LFE with the x-over set to max (120Hz) as recommended. Phase is Normal.

The A-780 uses manual speaker settings (the YPAO settings didn't sound right to me). Audio is set to DSP Straight, Power Amp Assign is Basic, Configuration is Small, Bass Boost is Off, Phase is Normal.
Just play a signal from an RCA audio out. You can use a CD player or any device with an RCA audio out and connect it to the input of the sub. You should hear output from the sub. If not the sub is dead. Dying is a habit of Emotiva gear.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
But it sounded like you felt it was working up until now? What are your OTHER speaker settings? Some of them need to be set to small to hear the bass normally but any DVD/BD with a multichannel track should work to test LFE. Some of the speakers need to be set to Small and Sub = Yes. Double bass off, Mains+LFE off.

Run YPAO again and see if it detects the sub, you can turn it off after. As TLS mentioned, any RCA from any speaker output from the receiver, if it has preamp level outputs, will work. CD player has different voltage, but it should work. I would prefer preamp outputs from the AVR since it has volume control. CD player will give you 100% volume and no adjustment usually.
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
Just play a signal from an RCA audio out. You can use a CD player or any device with an RCA audio out and connect it to the input of the sub. You should hear output from the sub. If not the sub is dead. Dying is a habit of Emotiva gear.
Excellent. So, a single cable, R or L, from a CD player to the Line In (not the LFE input) of the sub. No sound, dead sub. If the sub is dead, any recommendations, other than Emotiva around the $400-$500 range? I'll do the cable test tomorrow.
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
But it sounded like you felt it was working up until now? What are your OTHER speaker settings? Some of them need to be set to small to hear the bass normally but any DVD/BD with a multichannel track should work to test LFE. Some of the speakers need to be set to Small and Sub = Yes. Double bass off, Mains+LFE off.

Run YPAO again and see if it detects the sub, you can turn it off after.
As far as I could tell it was working. I only noticed the issue when I decided to run the Tone Test. I don't listen to window shaking audio volumes. Rarely set the volume below -25dB. Upon closer listening it sounds like most of the bass is coming from the other speakers. Speakers are set to Small with RF/LF x-over at 80Hz, RS/LS at 100Hz, and Center at 100Hz. The sub is set to LFE with the x-over at maximum of 180Hz. Sub is set to Use on the A-780.
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
As far as I could tell. I don't listen to window shaking audio volumes. Rarely set the volume below -25dB. Upon closer listening it sounds like most of the bass is coming from the other speakers. Speakers are set to Small with RF/LF x-over at 80Hz, RS/LS at 100Hz, and Center at 100Hz. The sub is set to LFE with the x-over at maximum of 180Hz. Sub is set to Use.
I would expect to get sound then. Is the sub set to "Auto on" or "always on"?
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
I would expect to get sound then. Is the sub set to "Auto on" or "always on"?
The sub is set to Auto/Standby. Emotiva says that either Auto/Standby or On is fine. They claim that in the Auto/Standby position, the sub will need a sustained signal for it to work and maybe the Tone Test isn't a long enough of a duration to kick it on. Not sure about that. But when I ran a movie with a nice 5.1 soundtrack, there was no bass. However, this morning I noticed that the blue "On" light in the back was not lit. So I toggled the power switch and it went to red briefly and then solid blue. So it would appear that the sub shutdown power even tho the power switch was still set to On. I will run the Test Tone later on while the blue light is still lit and see what I get. We don't use the upstairs system on a daily basis (it's basically for movies only) so maybe it shuts itself down as a safety feature after a period of no audio (at least bass) detected. I'll have to check with Emotiva about that. The smaller sub that I have for the downstairs system stays on all of the time as indicated by the "On" light in the back and it always works. Thanks for replying. I'll post back once I determine that it works and what Emotiva has to say.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Wouldn't be surprising the amp failed, or even the auto on feature. If it doesn't turn on with sufficient signal.....
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
What was explained to me was the "1 Watt Initiative". IOW, if the sub isn't being used after a set amount of time, it will power down so that it uses 1W or less of electricity. Basically it goes to sleep to a low power standby mode. When an audio signal is sent to the sub, it "wakes up". However, there is a certain level that the sub needs to see to distinguish background noise from an actual audio signal. So, if the Volume on the sub is set too high and the Loudness in the sub setting of the receiver is too low, the sub won't wake up. Turn down the Volume on the sub and turn up the Loudness of the sub in the receiver and set the sub to Standby/Auto.

Presently I had the Volume on the sub set to position 9 (out of 11) and the Loudness in the receiver for the sub at +5.0dB. I will set the Volume at the sub down to maybe position 3 and increase the dB for the sub in the receiver. I just need to remember which way the dB setting goes in the receiver for Loudness (positive is louder or negative is louder).
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Use a RCA Y cable to feed the 1 sub output to both L and R on the sub. That’s what I did for my HSU sub. I have Yamaha 770 in my living room.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Why? Just curious.
It sends higher signal so the auto sense on the sub triggers on. It’s a $10 fix and worked in my case.

Or are you describing a different problem?

Also the pink noise on the sub during the menu always sounds faint on my Yamahas too. I don’t use that method to set my sub gain (volume).
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
It sends higher signal so the auto sense on the sub triggers on. It’s a $10 fix and worked in my case.

Or are you describing a different problem?

Also the pink noise on the sub during the menu always sounds faint on my Yamahas too. I don’t use that method to set my sub gain (volume).
Got it. I just tested with the Tone Test to see (hear) if anything was coming out of the sub, and it wasn't so that's what started my "investigation". I never did like the YPAO calibration so I'm using Manual to set the speaker levels, using the YPAO results as a starting point. Currently the sub is set at -5.5dB but the Level scale is confusing me a bit because I'm not sure if it's the same as the Volume scale (the closer to 0 the negative value is the "louder" the volume is). Positive dB values are a bit confusing, at least to me.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Got it. I just tested with the Tone Test to see (hear) if anything was coming out of the sub, and it wasn't so that's what started my "investigation". I never did like the YPAO calibration so I'm using Manual to set the speaker levels, using the YPAO results as a starting point. Currently the sub is set at -5.5dB but the Level scale is confusing me a bit because I'm not sure if it's the same as the Volume scale (the closer to 0 the negative value is the "louder" the volume is). Positive dB values are a bit confusing, at least to me.
Ok so set subwoofer gain to only 30% on sub. Then set Yamaha to zero in menu. Then adjust the subwoofer up until it sounds right.

What size speakers do you have? You likely want 80hz low pass on the Yamaha or 90hz.
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
Ok so set subwoofer gain to only 30% on sub. Then set Yamaha to zero in menu. Then adjust the subwoofer up until it sounds right.

What size speakers do you have? You likely want 80hz low pass on the Yamaha or 90hz.
Hmmm, thought I'd already answered that. I set the speakers to Small and just changed the x-over to 80Hz except for the center which I set to 100Hz. The sub is now set to 0.0dB in the Speaker Menu of the A-780. 30% sounds about right, so far.
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
Glad it’s working good now. :)
Thank you for your time and patience. I should have remembered all of this. The only question I have now is about the Speaker Level in the Setup Menu of the A-780. The individual speaker settings are in dB, just like the Volume control of the system but is it the same? IOW, if I want to increase the loudness of the center speaker, which is currently set to 0.0dB, do I move it to a negative number, like the Volume control, to increase the loudness, or do I move it to a positive number. When I tried the YPAO calibration, it set the individual speaker levels to mostly positive dB settings. But someone said that a positive dB can result in distortion so I'm still trying to get that straight in my head.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Thank you for your time and patience. I should have remembered all of this. The only question I have now is about the Speaker Level in the Setup Menu of the A-780. The individual speaker settings are in dB, just like the Volume control of the system but is it the same? IOW, if I want to increase the loudness of the center speaker, which is currently set to 0.0dB, do I move it to a negative number, like the Volume control, to increase the loudness, or do I move it to a positive number. When I tried the YPAO calibration, it set the individual speaker levels to mostly positive dB settings. But someone said that a positive dB can result in distortion so I'm still trying to get that straight in my head.
positive number is louder

Just do 1 or 2 dB. And try that.
 
Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot

Junior Audioholic
positive number is louder

Just do 1 or 2 dB. And try that.
That's what I needed to know. Thanks. So it's the opposite of Volume control where negative is louder and increases as the negative number approaches 0. In the case of the sub, I should just leave it at 0 in the Menu Settings and increase the Volume on the sub itself.
 
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