Would someone mind updating me on the economy?

[Rickster71]

Just as an aside to people (not here specifically, I mean in general) who think the poor and impoverished are a problem...

Ask the janitors at your job how much they make. Ask the register employees at your local grocery store how much they make. Ask the gas station attendent who's giving you a fill up how much he or she makes. Then ask yourself...

Would you do that job for that amount of money?

No, but a kid in high school could.

Many people swear they are self-made, a success of their own struggles, but the simple fact is, no one gets by in this world alone. Even the person manning the fields for your next fruit harvest (9 times out of 10 it's a migrant worker who works for less than any American would agree to) deserves respect.

Oh....I though it was the 14.8 to 1 exchange rate, all this time.
When they send $1. home, they get $14 of their dollars back.
I'd work my *** off for that too.
Your story sounds very one sided.

 

[Nemo128]

Oh....I though it was the 14.8 to 1 exchange rate, all this time.
When they send $1. home, they get $14 of their dollars back.
I'd work my *** off for that too.
Your story sounds very one sided.

What does that have to do with the fact that the American business owner is selling out his own people for profit, and no one blames him/her?

 

[Tomorrow]

What does that have to do with the fact that the American business owner is selling out his own people for profit, and no one blames him/her?

What are you talking about? Who?

 

[TLS Guy]

Obama really can whip up the positive juices. He's quite an eloquent speaker and has excellent speech writers. If anyone can turn this pile of economic poo into a gold mine, or the greedy mindset of our culture into givers rather than takers...perhaps he IS the guy.

Unfortunately, I'm an old man who has seen this before. And while it all sounds really good....'tain't gonna change a thing, I fear. Nevertheless, I'll keep an open mind. But you can't take nearly insurmountable problems caused by an uncontrolled governmental and personal spending spree and improve them by spending way more in a 'stimulus' package. If governmental spending was all that was required, we'd be stimulated out of our pants already. Even we dumb old pharts know that.

We'll get through this, yes, assuming no WW3 comes along. The rotten world economy, U.S. protectionism, denial of Post WWI German economic rehabilitation, led us down a bad path 60 years ago to WWII. But the stakes are a lot higher now. I hope that common sense and wisdom will prevail and we'll just be forced to muddle through some heavy weight jello that TLSGuy refers to....and not face an internal or external arms inferno. And hopefully dire consequences can be averted.

Man o' man. It sure didn't take long to get to this precipice, did it? I really DO hope you're right, Mark.

This situation remains confused. The major reason is that we do not know the state of the banks. Ben Bernanke seemed cautiously optimistic about the prospects of bank rescue.

The result was an uptick in the stock market, and above all the buying of T-Bills again. I have a close friend who knows a lot more about this than I do, says the buying of T-bills is largely a reflection that the other economies are in worse shape than ours, and that the holders of the foreign debt have no choice but to try and turn the American economy around.

I do think this will be the last chance to pull this off though. The lesson to China will be to develop their own markets and not rely on the US market.

We will have no option, but to reduce and pay back the federal debt, as China in particular will need the money to develop their own markets coming out of this.

We must never let this happen again.

I agree, that President Obama is a great asset, as he presents a professional sensible calm image at home and especially abroad.

Clinton made fun of him only having a speech. She should have realized that was his greatest asset, and outweighed anything she brought to the table by far, in these times.

Just think what might of happened had Churchill not been a fine orator.

 

[Rickster71]

What does that have to do with the fact that the American business owner is selling out his own people for profit, and no one blames him/her?

There is no one to blame!
Everyone involved is happy, and have been at it for at least 150+ years.
The farmers get cheap labor, and the migrant worker gets the 14 to 1 exchange rate when he goes home.
If it was so bad, they wouldn't come here in the first place.

I can tell by the tenor of your posts that you have never been in business for yourself.
You certainly do have half of the story.

I don't have the time or the inclination to try to answer questions you should know the factual answer to. Not a politically driven answer.

 

[lsiberian]

This situation remains confused. The major reason is that we do not know the state of the banks. Ben Bernanke seemed cautiously optimistic about the prospects of bank rescue.

The result was an uptick in the stock market, and above all the buying of T-Bills again. I have a close friend who knows a lot more about this than I do, says the buying of T-bills is largely a reflection that the other economies are in worse shape than ours, and that the holders of the foreign debt have no choice but to try and turn the American economy around.

I do think this will be the last chance to pull this off though. The lesson to China will be to develop their own markets and not rely on the US market.

We will have no option, but to reduce and pay back the federal debt, as China in particular will need the money to develop their own markets coming out of this.

We must never let this happen again.

I agree, that President Obama is a great asset, as he presents a professional sensible calm image at home and especially abroad.

Clinton made fun of him only having a speech. She should have realized that was his greatest asset, and outweighed anything she brought to the table by far, in these times.

Just think what might of happened had Churchill not been a fine orator.

Politicians get far too much blame and far too much credit. Obama was the only choice in this election everyone else had no business being president, but economics is far more cyclical than political.

 

[lsiberian]

I could not agree with you more. I do think the stakes are higher than in 1929 though, and the potential for a reel disaster greater.

I think if we can get cooperation there is great reason to hope. We are going to have a nasty bump though, before all the world's boats start to rise.

The big problem is whether greed and selfishness can really be put at bay. That is what will derail things.

I could not agree more that we need patience to understand the issues and therefore the solutions. So far we have been doing rash things on sketchy or no data. That can not be an acceptable plan.

Someone needs to go down to the stock exchange and get that across to the morons who call themselves traders.

I think the biggest hurdle is going to be the write down of world debt, how to do it equitably and make sure there is equal opportunity on the other side.

That may prove difficult as a lot of the countries financing the debt do not have stable representative government. That fact may prove very awkward.

I would not characterize all this as the dark side yet. It all depends on how events play out.

The stock exchange will be fine there is plenty of cash to support the current prices. The ripples are going through the market, but we are fairly bottomed on the stock exchange. The 1998 support point sustained us through 2001 and I think it can sustain us through this. Once the banks stabilize we'll start growing again. It just takes time. The increase in labor supply was necessary to support new ventures. Unemployment can be positive for innovation because it provides a large labor pool for new business. Salaries and jobs will continue to shrink but hiring in some areas is actually starting. I think we'll be ok. We all needed to tighten up and this has helped us learn that. Remember to have support points for you income level. You should all have 6 months of your income saved up in emergency funds. (this doesn't include retirement). And if you don't work on it. I also encourage us all to live more simply. Remember there is a cost to everything we do and it comes straight out of the earth. Resources aren't unlimited.

 

[rnatalli]

Politicians get far too much blame and far too much credit.

Isn't that the truth. Regardless of whether the stimulus passed or not, Obama will get credit when the economy recovers. By opposing Obama, the GOP is betting the economy will not improve before 2012 which I believe is a foolish gamble. If it doesn't they will look rosy and 2012 will be theirs. Time will tell.

 

[lsiberian]

Isn't that the truth. Regardless of whether the stimulus passed or not, Obama will get credit when the economy recovers. By opposing Obama, the GOP is betting the economy will not improve before 2012 which I believe is a foolish gamble. If it doesn't they will look rosy and 2012 will be theirs. Time will tell.

the GOP lost it's identity in the last 8 years. They went from being conservatives to being debt spenders. Many let the power go to their head. As you can see in the many affairs and other stuff. I mean they ran John McCain?? he's not even a conservative. That's why many of their supporters stayed home or voted for Obama. I just hope they wait on Jindal until 2016. He seems like a really intelligent guy. I just pray nothing happens to Obama. There are a lot of idiots out there. Funny thing is that everyone who voted McCain I know voted based on abortion. I mean one issue.

 

[Davemcc]

Politicians get far too much blame and far too much credit.

On the contrary, there have been far too many political manipulations in triggering this crisis and virtually no blame laid at the feet of members of Congress. In fact, not only have Pelosi and Reid successfully deflect their due blame, they have actually increased their prestige and power by blaming others (but that's their full time job and the one thing they are good at).

 

[Nemo128]

I can tell by the tenor of your posts that you have never been in business for yourself.
You certainly do have half of the story.

Nice baseless (and incorrect) assumption.

 

[MidnightSensi]

The stock exchange will be fine there is plenty of cash to support the current prices. The ripples are going through the market, but we are fairly bottomed on the stock exchange. The 1998 support point sustained us through 2001 and I think it can sustain us through this. Once the banks stabilize we'll start growing again. It just takes time. The increase in labor supply was necessary to support new ventures. Unemployment can be positive for innovation because it provides a large labor pool for new business. Salaries and jobs will continue to shrink but hiring in some areas is actually starting. I think we'll be ok. We all needed to tighten up and this has helped us learn that. Remember to have support points for you income level. You should all have 6 months of your income saved up in emergency funds. (this doesn't include retirement). And if you don't work on it. I also encourage us all to live more simply. Remember there is a cost to everything we do and it comes straight out of the earth. Resources aren't unlimited.

What does it mean "there is plenty of cash to support the current prices" in the stock market? I don't understand the stock market very well, but it seems like its just dependent on how much money people take in and out... but where does the money go when it goes down or up? If I put in 17 dollars and the stock goes down to 10... where does the 7 dollars go? To someone who shorted it?

I guess I'm simplistic in my financial thinking (or lack of). If I make a subwoofer, and it costs me 200... and I sell it for 300... I made 100 dollars and someone else got the subwoofer. If they go to sell it for 250 because newer cooler stuff has come out and they want to upgrade, the money didn't just "go away" ... the value of something PHYSICAL... something I can feel and touch.... went down because it aged. That's where the stock market doesn't make sense to me. How can it go back up?! Where is the value in it? And if it does go back up, why? I understand the idea of well now there are less stocks so they are worth more... but why does that even matter? It just seems like a ploy to make value out of nothing and that is kind of what got us here in the first place.... so if we get better but don't fix that, won't we just crash harder the next time? That's where I get lost.

 

[Matt34]

I'm not in the trenches about how or why this is happening but she seems to.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2z00CQLUdw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxgkwXUq5LU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Mazjm_A5k

 

[lsiberian]

What does it mean "there is plenty of cash to support the current prices" in the stock market? I don't understand the stock market very well, but it seems like its just dependent on how much money people take in and out... but where does the money go when it goes down or up? If I put in 17 dollars and the stock goes down to 10... where does the 7 dollars go? To someone who shorted it?

I guess I'm simplistic in my financial thinking (or lack of). If I make a subwoofer, and it costs me 200... and I sell it for 300... I made 100 dollars and someone else got the subwoofer. If they go to sell it for 250 because newer cooler stuff has come out and they want to upgrade, the money didn't just "go away" ... the value of something PHYSICAL... something I can feel and touch.... went down because it aged. That's where the stock market doesn't make sense to me. How can it go back up?! Where is the value in it? And if it does go back up, why? I understand the idea of well now there are less stocks so they are worth more... but why does that even matter? It just seems like a ploy to make value out of nothing and that is kind of what got us here in the first place.... so if we get better but don't fix that, won't we just crash harder the next time? That's where I get lost.

You paid that person 17 dollars for the stock. That's where your 17 dollars went. Just like you paid the 200 for the subwoofer to the person you bought it from. Stock is bought from someone. Just like your sub.

Economics consists of two basic curves.

The supply curve and the Demand curve

The value of any thing is determined by where those two curves intersect. When the value drops below the current market price then a surplus of that product is created.

When the value exceeds the current market price then a shortage is created.

In order for a stock to decrease in value their must be surplus of shares. And for it to increase in value their must be a shortage of shares.

A surplus of shares are created by people selling the stock.

A shortage is created by people buying the stock.

Whenever someone sells the stock they get cash in return.

The reason the market dropped so much is that many people have sold their stocks and gotten cash in return. In fact almost half the value of the market has been turned into cash. As a result their is plenty of available cash on hand. Couple that with the increased money supply and you have a very well supported financial situation. Support points in the market are basically points where the growth started. previously. For example in 2001 you see a dip and in 98 you see a dip. we are at 98 which is two support points back.

When the market reaches that point the worst of the market slide is usually over. There is still ripples but the big hit is done. I think there has been a bit of overreaction to the situation, but that's usual.

 

[Tomorrow]

Nice baseless (and incorrect) assumption.

You know, Nemo, you have an interesting way of calling out others but being blind to your own poppycock generalizations and baseless (and unanswered/unexplained) assumptions.

....the fact that the American business owner is selling out his own people for profit, and no one blames him/her?

 

[rnatalli]

Some really good deals for stocks out there right now. I'm preparing for a buying frenzy

 

[Nemo128]

You know, Nemo, you have an interesting way of calling out others but being blind to your own poppycock generalizations and baseless (and unanswered/unexplained) assumptions.

The thanks is because you bring up a good point.

If you look at the general opinion of migrant workers in this country, particularly in the midwest and southwest states, the assertion is that it is the laborer who is costing Americans jobs. The media doesn't help with that assertion either.

I'll provide plenty of resources to illustrate the disparity between the good and the bad effects that the influx of migrant labor has had on this country if you are open-minded enough to take facts and evidence as exactly that and not liberal hippy rhetoric. =)

But I digress... the economy is not in the shape it's in because of bedbugs, and I don't want to continue to diverge from the OP's topic. Apologies.

 

[Tomorrow]

The thanks is because you bring up a good point.

If you look at the general opinion of migrant workers in this country, particularly in the midwest and southwest states, the assertion is that it is the laborer who is costing Americans jobs. The media doesn't help with that assertion either.

I'll provide plenty of resources to illustrate the disparity between the good and the bad effects that the influx of migrant labor has had on this country if you are open-minded enough to take facts and evidence as exactly that and not liberal hippy rhetoric. =)

But I digress... the economy is not in the shape it's in because of bedbugs, and I don't want to continue to diverge from the OP's topic. Apologies.

I thank you for your measured reply. Although being a real '60s hippy liberal, I resent being tied to "rhetoric" We, in fact, were liberal only in terms of sex, drugs, and rock & roll. We were most definitely anti-governmental control and lacked trust for those in power. Huh...who woulda thunk it...same as today.

I'd still like to hear about your opinion that the "American business owner is selling out his own people for profit, and no one blames him/her." But I think we both know that you said this out of personal emotion and without fore thought.

 

[Nemo128]

I thank you for your measured reply. Although being a real '60s hippy liberal, I resent being tied to "rhetoric"

Sorry, I was actually defending you then. A lot of modern-day conservatives look at the things I mention as liberal hippy talk and disregard any attempt to question the authority. Trust me, I have no problem with people who believe in real freedom.

I didn't say it out of emotion. It's based in the skewing of facts that we're fed on a daily basis by the likes of Bill O'Really? and Ann Coooolder...

HOWEVER, I must thank you for all your responses. I'll admit, I made a presumption about you that I am fully apologetic for.

You and TLS both have such a handle on the facts and historical significance of the situation, more people should be listening to the likes of you two and less to the finger-pointing we are getting from the establishment. You managed to take a complex path to destruction and turn it into CliffNotes that a child could understand... which means many of our elected officials would still be in the dark.

Truly many thanks for a great read.

 

[Tomorrow]

Some really good deals for stocks out there right now. I'm preparing for a buying frenzy

It looks like Charter is at 8 cents or so. What a buy! Oh wait...they're in receivership. LOL, nevermind. (You'd think Paul Allen would just pony up the couple of grand to buy up the rest of the stock he doesn't already own. Weird times.)

Seriously, it seems like a really good time to be as liquid as possible. It's gonna take lots of people with much larger cajones than mine to turn around this rumbling market train.