Would mixing subs be bad.

[Pogre]

This is true. However I doubt he’s getting “great” bass. Just more bass. IMO, and I believe @Pogre has mentioned this, clean linear distortion free bass can be turned up more(if that a desire) while allowing everything else to stay nice and clean too.

This is true. I actually thought of this earlier today and had forgotten to mention it to @Sparkus when we were having a sub discussion.

When I first got actual good subwoofers, at first I didn't think they were working right because they seemed quieter. Turns out they were, because the distortion that I didn't notice before was gone. It was that much cleaner. I could even bump them up a little more and still everything sounded great. I definitely had more clarity in the overall sound and started listening to all of my music all over again. The cliche "I was hearing things I never noticed in my music before" rang through my mind as I was listening. It was a cool moment for me. That's why I'm always pushing folks to upgrade their subs!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Busting balls thats a joke you definitely didn't grow up with my friends, I think you guys are just a little passionate about subsjust a little Think Ill send the klipsch back an get the speedwoofer, might take a few, but Ill see what the differance is besides the price. I sold my sword for 325 so it wont be so bad on the wallet.

Hey, maybe hit up @VonMagnum. He’s into memorabilia.

 

[Pogre]

What I meant was choosing great bass over intelligent dialogue is the wrong direction not that his current sub is giving him the performance he ultimately was hoping for that’s the reason he should get a great centre and deal with the low end last!

Subs are great I went 15 years without one and bought what I wanted without a single regret however I would never juice it’s volume at the expense of directional sound or quality dialogue and I agree with your points!

I'm the opposite, but I'm a music first guy. I went without a center channel for years and was perfectly content with phantom mode. Having good, clean bass was the priority for me. If given a choice between the 2, well there's always phantom mode. They don't have phantom bass.

 

[Crazy8s846]

What I meant was choosing great bass over intelligent dialogue is the wrong direction not that his current sub is giving him the performance he ultimately was hoping for that’s the reason he should get a great centre and deal with the low end last!

Subs are great I went 15 years without one and bought what I wanted without a single regret however I would never juice it’s volume at the expense of directional sound or quality dialogue and I agree with your points!

I dont really have a problem with dialogue phantom center works pretty good. Just really want 5.1 ive never had it , and the speakers that match mine might not be around next year. They have been discontinued, Next year or year an a half when Im going to move an have more room I might not be able to get the center with a warranty . The rp450c center is already gone from authorized deals. Only place I can find it is Amazon or ebay no warranty.

 

[HTfreak2004]

Distortion seems to be a dirty little devil that most uninitiated listeners of clean sound overlook. Although 85 db is 85 db the quality is what we’re listening for.

Loud seems to take the place of clean. If your ears are ringing it’s distortion that will cause it first since the ear tries to produce the distorted sound frequency which in a sense is out of phase.

Anyway this is my point here

 

[Pogre]

For the record, always speakers first. Those are the most important for both clear dialogue, good clarity and overall sound quality. @Crazy8s846 has good speakers so that's why I'm focused on his subs. I strongly believe that to be the current weakest link.

 

[Crazy8s846]

I'm the opposite, but I'm a music first guy. I went without a center channel for years and was perfectly content with phantom mode. Having good, clean bass was the priority for me. If given a choice between the 2, well there's always phantom mode. They don't have phantom bass.

Yea no phantom bass, Im going to rma tomorrow an wait for the money to hit the account so I can get the speedwoofer, If my sword hadn't sold I would have to live with this one. But sense I have the extra money might as well get a good one.

 

[HTfreak2004]

I'm the opposite, but I'm a music first guy. I went without a center channel for years and was perfectly content with phantom mode. Having good, clean bass was the priority for me. If given a choice between the 2, well there's always phantom mode. They don't have phantom bass.

I agree with the music listening but home theatre is more than 2 channels and is meant to have a discrete centre that is mixed that way at the studio just as the LFE is a discrete channel.

Asking the other channels to play the mix specific to another channel is defeating a 5.1 discrete mixing to begin with!

If that is what one wants for other channels to play another channels signal than what is the point of discrete? Listen to the mix in 2.0 right!

 

[Crazy8s846]

Distortion seems to be a dirty little devil that most uninitiated listeners of clean sound overlook. Although 85 db is 85 db the quality is what we’re listening for.

Loud seems to take the place of clean. If your ears are ringing it’s distortion that will cause it first since the ear tries to produce the distorted sound frequency which in a sense is out of phase.

Anyway this is my point hereView attachment 30672

 

[Crazy8s846]

There is no distortion that I can here, but my volume never goes over 26, an most of the time stays on 16 or 17, cant play anything load have two kids 4 an 5, an bass goes through walls. Even without the kids I wouldn't listen to it much louder.

 

[Pogre]

I agree with the music listening but home theatre is more than 2 channels and is meant to have a discrete centre that is mixed that way at the studio just as the LFE is a discrete channel.

Asking the other channels to play the mix specific to another channel is defeating a 5.1 discrete mixing to begin with!

If that is what one wants for other channels to play another channels signal than what is the point of discrete? Listen to the mix in 2.0 right!

You're still getting discrete object based movement from left to right, front to back. I don't disagree that a center is a little better for a 5.1 mixed soundtrack, I have a bookshelf I'm using for one now. The tech is there to make up for it in a satisfactory enough way for my tastes tho. I want clean sound over my entire range, not great top end with so-so, distorted low end. Like I said, you can't phantom in cleaner sounding (not louder) bass. I don't only listen to music, I like watching movies as well. I'm hook, line and sinker into the MCU tho I still haven't bought Endgame yet... I need to go do that soon...

 

[Pogre]

There is no distortion that I can here, but my volume never goes over 26, an most of the time stays on 16 or 17, cant play anything load have two kids 4 an 5, an bass goes through walls. Even without the kids I wouldn't listen to it much louder.

Did you read my earlier post about thinking my new, bigger subs were quieter? It was because the distortion I had not noticed before was gone and everything had more clarity and was cleaner sounding.

 

[Crazy8s846]

Ive probably just got bad ears or tone def it all sounds good to me unless there is alot of distortion .

 

[Pogre]

Ive probably just got bad ears or tone def it all sounds good to me unless there is alot of distortion .

Okay. When I say "I had not noticed", that means I didn't realize they were distorted until I heard what undistorted bass sounded like. I'm saying you're probably just like I was. You don't hear the distortion because you have no point of reference. It's not that your ears are bad or anything like that. You just haven't experienced it yet. I was the same way.

 

[HTfreak2004]

For sure. Preference rules logic since we are emotionally based creatures. Clean is loud at 85 db and is measured equally to a distorted 85 db. To like the distorted over the clean is ridiculous.

That’s like preferring an 18 inch arm at 20% body fat over an 18 inch defined at say 10% body fat. Distortion like fat skews detail regardless of the measurements!

 

[Crazy8s846]

Did you read my earlier post about thinking my new, bigger subs were quieter? It was because the distortion I had not noticed before was gone and everything had more clarity and was cleaner sounding.

No missed that one Id like a big subs, but will never be able to afford it, my kids are 4 and 5 years old, well the two little ones, an Im 59 by the time I can afford them Ill probably be dead or so old I won't care.

 

[Pogre]

No missed that one Id like a big subs, but will never be able to afford it, my kids are 4 and 5 years old, well the two little ones, an Im 59 by the time I can afford them Ill probably be dead or so old I won't care.

Well, I said "big" to highlight how counter-intuitive it was that I thought they were quieter. Substitute "quality" for "big" and it still applies to you for sure. I've read up on that Speedwoofer and some testimonials from folks here who've heard them and I think you're in for a pleasant surprise.

 

[HTfreak2004]

No missed that one Id like a big subs, but will never be able to afford it, my kids are 4 and 5 years old, well the two little ones, an Im 59 by the time I can afford them Ill probably be dead or so old I won't care.

My 5 year old sits right in front of my paradigm sub 15 at 5 feet 10 db below reference. He complained in the very beginning but like what he calls the daddy’s BIG speaker

 

[Crazy8s846]

Okay. When I say "I had not noticed", that means I didn't realize they were distorted until I heard what undistorted bass sounded like. I'm saying you're probably just like I was. You don't hear the distortion because you have no point of reference. It's not that your ears are bad or anything like that. You just haven't experienced it yet. I was the same way.

Your probably right ,I definitely dont have a reference .

 

[Crazy8s846]

My 5 year old sits right in front of my paradigm sub 15 at 5 feet 10 db below reference. He complained in the very beginning but like what he calls the daddy’s BIG speaker

My wife lets me do or have anything pretty much, but when it come to my kids loud sound on undeveloped ears , would maybe get me killed, an thats not a joke, she has ptsd when she gets off her meds, she already wants to killl me, Don't kick the sleeping bear.