Would Greatly Appreciate Some Advice on this!

[Michaelfishernz]

Hi Everyone!

Have just joined this forum (from New Zealand myself). I've just been getting into audio myself and have built myself a modest set up (being young and broke).

The Problem: We're a bunch of students and really love our set up, the only problem is we enjoy having our music really loud. The speakers can get really loud and they did with our last amp (which blew itself due to age) and they still can to a certain extent but our problem is that whenever we turn up the system to it's higher levels and it starts cranking it will play at that volume for approximately 20 seconds and then we get the classic 'OVERLOAD' display on the pioneer amp and it will turn off. We don't have this problem when playing at lower volumes, and in my opinion, there's a lot more room for these speakers to get extremely loud as the room we operate them in is reasonably small.

Can anyone give me any advice/guidance as to why this overload problem is happening? We currently have all the connections wired in with bare wire (not banana plugs). Could it be the AMP is not powerful enough? Or the speakers? or the wire? (ref to specs listed below). Any guidance or solutions to this problem would be greatly appreciated, we'd love to be able to really crank this system for a reasonable period of time and not have our amp turn off. ALSO, if you guys have any advice as to changing our set up (if the amp is too weak) that'd be appreciated as well.

Let me know if you need any more info!

The Set Up

• Pionneer VSX 517 Reciever with the following specs for quick reference: (CNET source)
  • Tuning range: FM, MW
    Power output: 110 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)
    Surround output: 90W (front),90W (center),90W (rear)
    Frequency response: 5Hz to 100kHz
    Total harmonic distortion: 0.2%
    Input sensitivity: 200mV (line)
    Signal to noise ratio: 96dB (line)
    Output: 200mV (line)
    Speaker load impedance: 8Ω to 16Ω
    Digital inputs: coaxial, optical
    Video Connections: component, composite
• Pair of JBL CF120 Floor Speakers
  • Type: 3 way, 3 driver loudspeaker system
    Frequency Response: 36Hz to 20kHz
    Recommended Amplifier: 10 to 250W
    Crossover Frequency: 800, 7000Hz
    Impedance: 8Ω
    Sensitivity: 96dB
    Bass: 1 x 12" polymer laminate
    Midrange: 1 x 4.5" polymer laminate
    Tweeter: 1 x 14mm Ti laminate dome
    Enclosure: bass reflex
• Wire: Don't know exactly, but some pretty thick copper wire.
• We also add some smaller speakers to the surround but not the issue

 

[Leemix]

Are you running stereo or multi channel?
Either way overload warning = amp trying way too hard and not being able so its not powerful enough (not stable at the loads you are placing on it)

(/killjoy Also consider if you want to have a decent hearing ability in 10-20 years or ringing in your ears /killjoy off)


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[Michaelfishernz]

Running it on stereo. So are those amp specs still pretty weak for the speakers power rating?

 

[Leemix]

Running it on stereo. So are those amp specs still pretty weak for the speakers power rating?

The speakers look to be very efficient but the AVR might be a bit generous in specs (they all are basically) and probably have a heat problem with hard use for prolonged periods(lack of stability on the high load put on it).


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[Michaelfishernz]

Sorry (noob question) but is the AVR the receiver?

The speakers look to be very efficient but the AVR might be a bit generous in specs (they all are basically) and probably have a heat problem with hard use for prolonged periods(lack of stability on the high load put on it).


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?

 

[Leemix]

Sorry (noob question) but is the AVR the receiver?



?

Yes Audio Video Reciever


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[WaynePflughaupt]

It’s a budget AVR, and as noted the specs are probably optimistic. Equipment like this is simply not designed for your intended use. I recommend getting a pro-audio amplifier (Crown maybe) that puts out at least 250 watts per channel @ 8-ohms. It can connect to your Pioneer via its left and right Pre-Out jacks. We look forward to your next post, “How can we keep from blowing our speakers?”

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Leemix]

It’s a budget AVR, and as noted the specs are probably optimistic. Equipment like this is simply not designed for your intended use. I recommend getting a pro-audio amplifier (Crown maybe) that puts out at least 250 watts per channel @ 8-ohms. It can connect to your Pioneer via its left and right Pre-Out jacks. We look forward to your next post, “How can we keep from blowing our speakers?”

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Haha, ye there is definatly a chance of a second post like that. A more powerful amp like a crown or such will lessen the chance of speaker damage, but a speaker can only take so much punishment, clipping or not.


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[KEW]

To get more specific, this is an amp that is known to be quiet (fan noise) and generally work well in a "home audio" application:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLS1502--crown-xls-1502-power-amplifier?mrkgcl=28&mrkgadid=984185277&rkg_id=0&campaigntype=dsa&campaign=aaDSA&adgroup=984185277SA - Product&placement=google&adpos=1t1&creative=248832405268&device=c&matchtype=b&network=g&gclid=CjwKCAjw7IbaBRBqEiwA6AyZgt6vilrUV6SAOomEu0-mXZ5le_jSLgZUNZoqT6J0JU4YcyQGzeWFxRoCIoAQAvD_BwE
If you are in a situation where someone is likely to come through drunk and do a "lets crank this thing up!", you can hide the amp and use the gain control on the amp as a volume limiter set at a level you and room mates agreed upon when you were sober. Also my Denon has a way in the setup to limit the maximum volume, I'd bet your Pioneer does as well.
Apologies if you find this offensive, but I had flashbacks to the frat houses when I was in college!

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't see that this Pioneer model has pre-outs except for a sub (and would be very surprised an avr at this price point would have them). It does have analog outs for a recorder, which I assume are fixed-level line outs, so conceivably you could use an external amp like the Crown but you'd need to use the gain controls on the amp for volume control rather than the Pioneer.

 

[Michaelfishernz]

Thanks for all the replies guys! Had a good laugh at how many of you guys read the situation/us so well hahah! Thanks for the advice

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi Everyone!

Have just joined this forum (from New Zealand myself). I've just been getting into audio myself and have built myself a modest set up (being young and broke).

The Problem: We're a bunch of students and really love our set up, the only problem is we enjoy having our music really loud. ...

Welcome.

As one saying goes, Play now, pay later. This in reference to loud playback and hearing loss later in life.
Perhaps all you need to do is reduce the volume.

 

[hemiram]

Sadly, "Later in life" seems to be about 25, from how far gone some of the people I worked with's hearing is/was. I don't know how many times I've picked up a phone and the volume was set to "10", and been blasted. I run that same phone at 2 or 3, and I'm old, like Social Security old. When they get as old as I am now, it's not going to be good. "Wait..wait, say that again, I'm having problems with my hearing aids again!" (Something my mom's first husband said almost every time she spoke with him after he hit 80). My mom got pretty deaf too, but not that bad.

 

[Michaelfishernz]

Hi again, just curious, if I got another pair of efficient speakers and added them to the set up as rear speakers would this make it louder? Is it possible to get the surround speakers relatively loud?

 

[NorseMythology]

I wouldnt listen that loud for that long personally. Also you might try a computer can or something to help cool your AVR.

 

[NorseMythology]

Hi again, just curious, if I got another pair of efficient speakers and added them to the set up as rear speakers would this make it louder? Is it possible to get the surround speakers relatively loud?

From what I understand it will maybe make it 3-6db louder. But if you are running 4 channels your AVR will get hot inside even faster.

 

[Michaelfishernz]

When I disconnect my speakers from the amp and crank the AVR it makes the typical fan noise (from working hard) but it does not show an "OVERLOAD" sign or switch off. Does this mean that the cause of the OVERLOAD is due to wiring? or is it still possibly due to using an underpowered amp?

 

[Leemix]

When I disconnect my speakers from the amp and crank the AVR it makes the typical fan noise (from working hard) but it does not show an "OVERLOAD" sign or switch off. Does this mean that the cause of the OVERLOAD is due to wiring? or is it still possibly due to using an underpowered amp?

If no speakers connected it doesnt work nearly as hard.


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[Michaelfishernz]

Would this receiver solve my problem?

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/pioneer-vsx-820-k-fl

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Welcome! I had a pair of CF150's (the 15" version of those... yummy!) for almost 15 years before I sold them (and I do miss them).

Probably not an issue but check the speaker resistance (connect a multimeter on Ohm setting to the speakers terminals) to make sure there isn't a resistance drop in one of them that might be overloading your receiver. The CF's are close to 20 years old by now and the voice coils or crossovers might have some degradation that could cause impedance drops that your receiver can't handle.

I don't know what DC resistance they should read, but the value of each speaker should be pretty close. If one is a lot lower than the other, there could be an issue with the crossover or one of the drivers.

Another question is... do you have the Bass turned up on the receiver or is it playing flat? I know I never felt the need to adjust the bass gain on my CF150's. If it has been adjusted, try setting it back to 0 and see if the Pioneer still goes into protection.