Wine and Wine Storage

[lsiberian]

You will need to do a lot of research before building a wine cellar. There are a lot of details to miss. Like a vapor barrier. temperature control, lighting, Proper lighting.

Wood selection is important too. you want something that looks good and is strong enough to hold up. If possible using good joining methods can give you more options, but building the racks is a lot of work so you may want to source it. Make sure you build it the racks So you can get them through the door. Otherwise you will be one pissed off person.

 

[j_garcia]

Also a big fan of Silver Oak and Opus One.

No offense, but I've been to Silver Oak a number of times and they are almost like the Bose of wine to me. They use their name and small lots to charge way too much money. For their price of ~$100/bottle, I have had better wine for 1/4 the price.

 

[darien87]

So far I like Estancia Paso Robles quite a bit, as well as Penfold Reserve Shiraz, as well as some of the Austrailian Shiraz/Syrahs. It's rare that I find a wine that is spectacular, but the times I do find them, I rarely write them down, even though I have a wine journal.

Estancia and Penfold both make some good stuff.

Over the last few years, I've really gotten into Sake. We actually have a brewery in Berkely, Takara, that makes some pretty good stuff. I really like their Nigori and it's great that you can get it at Safeway for $5 a bottle.

http://www.takarasake.com/

Also, there's a store in SF called True Sake that has some good brews that I've only seen there. The staff is very knowledgable and I believe they even have an online store now. Sake is an acquired taste, but I like it because not too many people drink it or know anything about it, and it kind of goes with my whole believing I was Japanese in a past life thing.

http://www.truesake.com/

 

[j_garcia]

and it kind of goes with my whole believing I was Japanese in a past life thing.

I am not sure that is possible...are you saying you were small and Asian? haha. Meaning I think you would stand out a little bit in Japan at your current height

I'm not really into sake, but I have had a few good ones here and there. We just found this tiny little sushi place up the street from work that is the best I've had and they have some exotic looking sake in there. Haven't tried it yet, but I crave their sushi.

 

[lsiberian]

Estancia and Penfold both make some good stuff.

Over the last few years, I've really gotten into Sake. We actually have a brewery in Berkely, Takara, that makes some pretty good stuff. I really like their Nigori and it's great that you can get it at Safeway for $5 a bottle.

http://www.takarasake.com/

Also, there's a store in SF called True Sake that has some good brews that I've only seen there. The staff is very knowledgable and I believe they even have an online store now. Sake is an acquired taste, but I like it because not too many people drink it or know anything about it, and it kind of goes with my whole believing I was Japanese in a past life thing.

http://www.truesake.com/

Sake is amazing stuff. I had a guy at a bar hook me up with the good stuff for a big tip. That stuff gets the buzz faster than Wine from what I could tell.

 

[itschris]

So give some low end recommendations too, it is hard to find quality wines in lower price ranges especially as spoiled as I got in the class (we would regularly try 4-5 $60+ quality bottles a day). Right now we are just feeling out what is in our price range and running into some bad and some decent, nothing really worth buying again.

Here's some of the things I've learned since running into my buddy Andrew who own the local wine bar and has given me a big education.

I used to think I didn't like dry red wine. The reality, I love dry red wine, but I hate sh*tty dry red wine. Looking at that, I realized that it's much harder to get a really good Calafornia red for under $20. Not that they don't exist, but it's just not that easy. When you learn about land cost, and yields, and how that plays into the wine, it becomes easy to see why the really good wines from CA are more around the $40+ range. I've just found the finish on many of the more affordable CA reds to be too harsh for me, especially now when I know what I really like. Washington, Australia, and Chili have fantastics cabs that are less than $20. Like I said in my earlier post, Penley Cab is about $20 and I'd easily put that up against $50 CA cabs.

There are 1000's of wines out there, you just gotta go to tastings, visit a wine bar that has stuff other than what your grocery store carries and just start trying stuff. I've been opened up to a whole new world. It's awesome. For $20 try a J. Bookwalter Subplot 22 or 23 or the Penley Pheonoix cab. Guggenheim has a pretty good Malbec for under $10. It's not jaw dropping, but it's just a nice easy wine that's very drinkable.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I used to think I didn't like dry red wine. The reality, I love dry red wine, but I hate sh*tty dry red wine. Looking at that, I realized that it's much harder to get a really good Calafornia red for under $20. Not that they don't exist, but it's just not that easy. When you learn about land cost, and yields, and how that plays into the wine, it becomes easy to see why the really good wines from CA are more around the $40+ range. I've just found the finish on many of the more affordable CA reds to be too harsh for me, especially now when I know what I really like.

A lot of the grape vines in Europe were actually brought from California, after France had their grape vines killed by some sort of bacteria.

I have a buddy that is a wine distributor. Wine business is like buying futures, because in order to get the bottles that sell you have to order them before they are grown to get an allocation. So if the season was good for that vineyard, your going to make bank, but if it was bad you'll have to get rid of them somehow. With the higher end bottles there are also a lot of fakes, the black market is massive for high end wines, and also theft is a problem for distributors carrying very expensive wine. My friends building is built like a fortress, with security cameras, retna scanners, reinforced blast-proof walls, generators, cell phone blockers (plus you have to check your phone in at the front, you can't bring it in the building), the loading dock requires the truck to drive in, then the front closes in order for the rear door to open, and so forth... just to get insurance!

 

[itschris]

Here's a great site:

http://www.tillsoldout.com/

It's sorda like woot.com but for better wine. They have up to 3 wines per day. I'm not an expert, but they do have stuff that I recognize and I have bought from them several times and have been very happy. I just recently bought 4 bottles of Tempranillo from them that was pretty damn good and paid about half of what I could find it for anywhere easy.

 

[j_garcia]

A lot of the grape vines in Europe were actually brought from California, after France had their grape vines killed by some sort of bacteria.

It is a fungus and it is fairly common. Most of the vines here in Sonoma and Napa are from Europe though, brought over by immigrants from there (most that I've seen are France and Italy based, some Germans) The appellation is different, producing different flavors, but the vines are from the same lineage.

A lot of the places here also use French Oak because of the flavor. American Oak can be nice, but it does seem to have a different taste to it. I tend to prefer places that do their aging entirely in oak as well. You can often taste the metalic touch of aging in stainless tanks. I also like places that let the wild yeast do its thing rather than using designer yeast, but that isn't a 100% rule, since one of my favorite places uses controlled yeast.

 

[irish]

No offense, but I've been to Silver Oak a number of times and they are almost like the Bose of wine to me. They use their name and small lots to charge way too much money. For their price of ~$100/bottle, I have had better wine for 1/4 the price.

No offense taken. Are you referring to the Napa or Alexander Valley? The Alexander can be found in Vegas for around $45 on occasion and I do like it although I am no expert at wines. I had Faust recently and thought it was much better and more reasonably priced than Silver Oak.

I really like Rancho Sisquoc from the Santa Barbara area. Very reasonably priced and very good... although it's been a few years since I've had it I'd definitely recommend trying it.

 

[j_garcia]

No offense taken. Are you referring to the Napa or Alexander Valley? The Alexander can be found in Vegas for around $45 on occasion and I do like it although I am no expert at wines. I had Faust recently and thought it was much better and more reasonably priced than Silver Oak.

These excursions were to the release parties for various types including the Opus One at the Napa facility; I haven't been to the Alexander Valley site. For what they are charging per bottle, they are pretty generous with the pouring at the events and their events are pretty good, not to mention the per bottle price at the events is lower, however the street prices are a bit too steep. They are good, but they aren't "investment" wines in my book, which is why it kind of baffles me that people will pay that much for it.

 

[darien87]

Guggenheim has a pretty good Malbec for under $10. It's not jaw dropping, but it's just a nice easy wine that's very drinkable.

It's funny, you hear Malbec all the time now, but I don't think I had even heard of that grape until a few years ago.

Kind of like how I had never even heard of Pesto until I went to college in the 90's.

 

[itschris]

It's funny, you hear Malbec all the time now, but I don't think I had even heard of that grape until a few years ago.

Kind of like how I had never even heard of Pesto until I went to college in the 90's.

I think it's becoming popoular because they are very drinkable. I think the lower altitude Malbecs are milder (again I think, I"m no expert) and it's a good way to make the transition into reds. There was another Malbec that I had 2 or 3 bottles of that was $10 and was just really damn good. I can't remember the name, but I was thinking of picking up a few bottles the next time we go to the wine bar. By the way, International Cellar in Oldsmar, FL is the place I'm talking about. they have website and they consistently show up on WineSearcher.com as one of the cheapest sources. I literally check Wines Till Sold Out about 2-3 times a day. YOu just never know what you'll come across.

 

[pzaur]

Just don't end up like my father in-law. He has well over 500 wines and is (was) buying them by the case, weekly. There are fantastic, rare, wines in his collection that will probably never see the light of day. He keeps talking about how he wants to have none left when he dies, but, with how much "daily drinkers" they have they will never delve into the truly good stuff!

-pat

 

[Winenut]

Wine storage

You might want to ask around or google "wine storage" for your area to see if there are any companies that specialize in storing wine for collectors. You may be able to rent a secure locker holding from 12 to 100 cases under strict temperature and humidity controls. Make sure the facility has back-up generators and adequate security measures in place.

The good thing about commercial storage is that you don't have to spend a lot of money on home wine cabinets and you can expand your collection without adding a new wing onto your house. An ideal solution is to store your long-term wine in commercial storage and buy a 50-bottle home storage unit for short-term consumption wines.

Good luck!

 

[mperfct]

we got our rack from Grottocellars.com. I can't remember if they would have what you're looking for, Chris, but they were great to buy from when we got our rack. I'd check, but my web filter is blocking their site (alcohol).

 

[itschris]

we got our rack from Grottocellars.com. I can't remember if they would have what you're looking for, Chris, but they were great to buy from when we got our rack. I'd check, but my web filter is blocking their site (alcohol).

They have some beautiful rooms. I've been giving this a lot of thought and I just don't see a true cellar room happening in this house. We have almost 3000 sq ft yet have no space. It's a retarded layout and implementation.

I think I'll just still with the cabinet I have for now. It's got 500 bottle storage, but I just wanted something a little bit fancier, higher end. Oh well. As soon as the economy turns around and starts chugging forward, we'll be getting a new house probably in the mountains somewhere in Blue Ridge or near the Smokeys. That's when I'll have my two man rooms... a true media room and a wine room.

I'm going to try and keep this thread alive an post up on wines I come across.

 

[Mrvinote]

Have a look at vinote,com to see how you can manage your growing inventory of wines, even if you consume too much and forget what you have opened. Tagging each bottle works the best.