Windows 7

[krzywica]

XP used much the same kernel as 2000. One of the major reasons for Vistas poor reputation was it's lack of compatibility due to the dramatic changes in the underlying kernel and architecture from XP. Many of those changes were for the better when it comes to modern computing and advancing technology but since many companies were not ready for it and many older applications and drivers did not work Vista got a real bad rap. Vista had it's other problems as well but many were resolved with future updates. It was too late by then to repair it's tarnished reputation.

7 is using much of the new kernel which went through its growing pains with Vista and was also tested much more thoroughly by many more people. Microsoft says 15 million people downloaded and ran the Windows 7 beta and RC releases. I was one of them and I used both the beta and RC as my primary OS since their release. I couldn't say the same for Vista. The Vista beta was horrible and the release version was not much better.

Legacy support is a double edged sword for Microsoft. They have an entrenched customer base that expects all of their old programs to run on every new version of Windows. By supporting it they keep a large number of people complacent. A mind boggling level of complexity in Windows has its roots in legacy support. Microsoft has to put a lot of time and effort into not pissing off people who want to use those old programs. Vista showed that does not end well.

Microsoft is in a constant bind. I'm not sure how they could get out of it. Apple, with its much smaller user base, simply says "sorry, you upgrade or it won't work anymore". Not having to worry about so much legacy support is a big advantage.

I must say I am very impressed with what Microsoft has done in Windows 7 in this area. I haven't found a program that won't run on 7. I am happily running the final release of 7 Home Premium and have no complaints. However, if you think about it, how much further could Microsoft advance with each Windows release if they just dropped all of this legacy support and told there customers to deal with it. There has to come a point when it's time to move on and start fresh. That is what Apple has done several times throughout the past couple decades and that is what really pushed them ahead in the OS quality wars. Will Windows 8 be Microsoft's "screw legacy" release?

I don't know if you have checked out XPM in Windows 7 yet but its certainly worth a look and IMO is the perfect answer to the legacy support issue.

I have been a heavy VMWare user for about 5-6 years and am throughly impressed with Microsoft has done with Virtual PC in Win7. They really made it integrate seamlessly as you have single application windows for your legacy apps and don't have to run them within the gust OS window.

 

[lsiberian]

Anyone notice that 7 is just vista with a big service pack yet? We discussed that in one of my computer clases yesterday. But anyway I do like 7 much better than vista, even though I own a mac for my main computer.

This is a vast oversimplification of a version change. Windows 7 is very different from Vista so far. It's got a better taskbar and it's more robust.

Software Engineering a new operating system version is a massive undertaking. It looks like they did it right this time. I"m very impressed. I've never said that about Windows before. It really is an upgrade.

I hope other companies follow suit and make their products live up to this.

Anyone that's used both extensively can easily see their is a big difference in quality. I've not had a single crash yet that wasn't self induced. Vista had all sorts of problems.

 

[lsiberian]

XP used much the same kernel as 2000. One of the major reasons for Vistas poor reputation was it's lack of compatibility due to the dramatic changes in the underlying kernel and architecture from XP. Many of those changes were for the better when it comes to modern computing and advancing technology but since many companies were not ready for it and many older applications and drivers did not work Vista got a real bad rap. Vista had it's other problems as well but many were resolved with future updates. It was too late by then to repair it's tarnished reputation.

7 is using much of the new kernel which went through its growing pains with Vista and was also tested much more thoroughly by many more people. Microsoft says 15 million people downloaded and ran the Windows 7 beta and RC releases. I was one of them and I used both the beta and RC as my primary OS since their release. I couldn't say the same for Vista. The Vista beta was horrible and the release version was not much better.

Legacy support is a double edged sword for Microsoft. They have an entrenched customer base that expects all of their old programs to run on every new version of Windows. By supporting it they keep a large number of people complacent. A mind boggling level of complexity in Windows has its roots in legacy support. Microsoft has to put a lot of time and effort into not pissing off people who want to use those old programs. Vista showed that does not end well.

Microsoft is in a constant bind. I'm not sure how they could get out of it. Apple, with its much smaller user base, simply says "sorry, you upgrade or it won't work anymore". Not having to worry about so much legacy support is a big advantage.

I must say I am very impressed with what Microsoft has done in Windows 7 in this area. I haven't found a program that won't run on 7. I am happily running the final release of 7 Home Premium and have no complaints. However, if you think about it, how much further could Microsoft advance with each Windows release if they just dropped all of this legacy support and told there customers to deal with it. There has to come a point when it's time to move on and start fresh. That is what Apple has done several times throughout the past couple decades and that is what really pushed them ahead in the OS quality wars. Will Windows 8 be Microsoft's "screw legacy" release?

Are you really trying to defend Microsoft?

I think they have plenty of money to deal with the pain.

 

[jamie2112]

Anyone want to send me a copy of Wndows 7???????

 

[Adam]

Anyone want to send me a copy of Wndows 7???????

Ask Alex. He's probably gotten three or four free copies of it by now.

 

[Nomo]

Anyone want to send me a copy of Wndows 7???????

If you know any one that has, or can obtain an .edu email address; I strongly suggest going that route. It is as simple as just having an .edu email. You do not need to be a student. This is only an upgrade from Vista. If you have XP, it won't work.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59866

 

[GlocksRock]

you can sign up for a free australia.edu account and still partake of this deal.

 

[pzaur]

If you know any one that has, or can obtain an .edu email address; I strongly suggest going that route. It is as simple as just having an .edu email. You do not need to be a student. This is only an upgrade from Vista. If you have XP, it won't work.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59866

Not true. The upgrade will work with Windows XP. This is the same page that pops up from the FAQ link in the lower corner of the "Buy" window on www.win741.com. It is simply a more complicated process and, as I read it, does a clean install of Windows 7.

-pat

 

[fredk]

This is a vast oversimplification of a version change. Windows 7 is very different from Vista so far. It's got a better taskbar and it's more robust.

Actually its not. Windows 7 is a UI facelift with a weakened UAC to satisfy the masses. The core O/S is common to both Vista and Windows 7. Anandtech had a good writeup on this.

The exception seems to be memory management, which is significantly improved with Win7. Maybe this is UI related as well though.

The other big change is the addition of all sorts of codecs to media center. This was all nicely documented in an article over at anandtech.com.

For me as a Vista user with a reasonably powerful pc, there is no reason to upgrade. I bought Vista for its increased security for a net connected computer, so I want UAC to scream any time a process is elevated.

 

[krzywica]

Actually its not. Windows 7 is a UI facelift with a weakened UAC to satisfy the masses. The core O/S is common to both Vista and Windows 7. Anandtech had a good writeup on this.

This is simply not true. While the "out of the box" UAC level is lower than Vista it is in no way weaker. The UAC setting is actually better for the end user IMO as it is tweakable through the control panel without need to go into the group policy screen as in Vista (which can be an extremely daunting task for the average user).

The exception seems to be memory management, which is significantly improved with Win7. Maybe this is UI related as well though.

Superfetch is is tweaked in 7 which allows for smarter application preloading. The Aero backend got a HUGE overhaul that results in a massive savings in memory for both GPU and System memory. In Vista each window opened resulted in a massive ammount of memory being used. This has been fixed in 7 and if you are a power user that has 30 windows open most of the time (I do) then its definitely worth a look.

The other big change is the addition of all sorts of codecs to media center. This was all nicely documented in an article over at anandtech.com.

For me as a Vista user with a reasonably powerful pc, there is no reason to upgrade. I bought Vista for its increased security for a net connected computer, so I want UAC to scream any time a process is elevated.

Have you tried W7 yet? I think if you were to install it as a VM or dual boot it you would find after about 5 minutes with the new UI that you could not go back to VIsta or XP.

Try it out!

 

[fredk]

While the "out of the box" UAC level is lower than Vista it is in no way weaker.

Which greater than 90% of people will use without being aware of the consequences, so in effect, it is a weakened UAC. Windows 7 will still be a step up in security from XP though, as it will no longer be necessary to be logged in as an administrator to do anything useful.

The Aero back-end got a HUGE overhaul that results in a massive savings in memory for both GPU and System memory.

Its still a UI overhaul not a change to the core OS. This, by the way, should also be applied to Vista as a matter of course, but that will never happen. I expect to get a little more than a year or two out of my OS before I feel compelled to upgrade. Anything else is just MS squeezing me for money.

I see no reason to fork over $200 to MS to upgrade my Vista premium for OS fixes that should have been done anyway.

30 Windows?? You probably spend more time switching windows than I do on my computer. Call me old fashioned, but I like to do one thing at a time, maybe two. Task switching has a HUGE overhead.

Try it out!

I might if I can get the $39 student version. On the other hand, for free I can also try out Ubuntu with a UI.

The most compelling reason I had to stay with Windows was for an HTPC, which needs HDCP support. For playing music, web browsing and the basic home stuff, the OS flavour is irrelevant.

 

[pzaur]

I might if I can get the $39 student version. On the other hand, for free I can also try out Ubuntu with a UI.

Just to clarify, I'm sure it's a miscommunication anyways, the price is not for a "student version." This is for either Win7 Home Premium or Win7 Pro.

-pat

 

[krzywica]

Which greater than 90% of people will use without being aware of the consequences, so in effect, it is a weakened UAC. Windows 7 will still be a step up in security from XP though, as it will no longer be necessary to be logged in as an administrator to do anything useful.


Its still a UI overhaul not a change to the core OS. This, by the way, should also be applied to Vista as a matter of course, but that will never happen. I expect to get a little more than a year or two out of my OS before I feel compelled to upgrade. Anything else is just MS squeezing me for money.

I see no reason to fork over $200 to MS to upgrade my Vista premium for OS fixes that should have been done anyway.

30 Windows?? You probably spend more time switching windows than I do on my computer. Call me old fashioned, but I like to do one thing at a time, maybe two. Task switching has a HUGE overhead.

I might if I can get the $39 student version. On the other hand, for free I can also try out Ubuntu with a UI.

The most compelling reason I had to stay with Windows was for an HTPC, which needs HDCP support. For playing music, web browsing and the basic home stuff, the OS flavour is irrelevant.

Not trying to get under your skin Fred. Just stating my experience thus far for W7....

I would totally agree as to the sham that is the "upgrade" from Vista to 7. MS should have done the right thing and fixed Vista, instead of milking the cash cow (consumers) and re-releasing the same OS that actually works.

At the same time I wouldn't say Vista is a bad OS, just not the "upgrade" that it should have been compared to XP.

I would behoove you to check out Ubuntu 9.10 if you are considering going to Linux. I'm not sure what experience level is with Linux is, but thus far 9.10 has been an inedible leap in usability over past Debian OS's, certainly worth a look and then some.

As far as the multitasking goes....see sig @Workstation.

I'm somewhat of an ubergeek.

 

[fredk]

Just to clarify, I'm sure it's a miscommunication anyways, the price is not for a "student version." This is for either Win7 Home Premium or Win7 Pro.

-pat

I should have posted 'student' version. $39 is a reasonable price for an upgrade from Vista to Win 7.

 

[fredk]

I would behoove you to check out Ubuntu 9.10 if you are considering going to Linux.QUOTE]
I've heard a lot of good things about linix in general in the last 1.5 years. The developer community seems to have matured a lot in its aproach and the OS is quite mature at this point. I spent 5 years doing S&M for a company that ported unix tools to the PC, so I have a reasonable familiarity with unix/linix. Hell, at one point I produced marketing litterature using troff.

Hmm. Maybe $39 Win7 for the HTPC and Ubuntu for the bedroom pc.

By the way, its MS that gets under my skin, not you.

 

[vizionut]

after six months

after six months from my hp purchase i have had no problems with software or hardware. I did a upgrade to windows 7 through hp for free. I can't wait until i get my extra hard drive so i can put all my movies and music on it.