Will HDR10+ Free Licensing Displace Dolby Vision?

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Ratings
4,221 20 9
#1
The makers of the free, open-source HDR10+ format for high dynamic range video have begun a licensing and logo-certification program for the technology. Like Dolby Vision, HDR10+ uses dynamic metadata to optimize the brightness, contrast, and color of every scene. Unlike Dolby Vision, HDR10+ is free to use — no royalty fees required. Will the free licensing incentive of HDR10+ ultimately be the demise of Dolby Vision or will they still peacefully coexist?

hdr10+.jpg


Read: HDR10+ Licensing & Logo Certification
 
S

Schrodinger23

Enthusiast
Ratings
9
#4
This is competition that is not good at all for those wanting to get a new HDR display. This year I'm looking into getting a display for around $6,000. Two possible routes: 1) a 77" OLED when the prices drop towards the end of this year and beginning of next year, or 2) A midline JVC projector.

When I buy a display I want it to last 10 years or so. In fact, I am at about the 10 year mark with my Pioneer Kuro and up until the last couple years, there was nothing that really bested it in performance in a light controlled room. The LG or Sony OLEDs will not support HDR10+. They will do Dolby Vision and HDR10, but I would be missing out on the dynamic metadata from HDR10+. In fact I am not aware of a display that can do all three. Then there is HLG, which we need for (probably) broadcast television for the most part. At this point if you go with an LG or Sony OLED it won't have HDR10+, so you will be missing the opportunity to see the Amazon Prime content in its fullest potential. If on the other hand you go with a display that can do HDR10+, then you will miss out on the much deeper Dolby Vision catalog content from Vudu, iTunes, UHD Blu-Ray, etc. This is ridiculous that it has been two or three years now and not a single display can do all HDR formats.

Then you get over to projectors and you can only get HDR10 and HLG in some HDR projectors. It seems like they are going to try to guess at different brightness levels through processing to try to get the best picture out of it. Almost trying to do what Dolby Vision or HDR10+ would do without the dynamic metadata. I understand the reasons why with the many more variables in a projector and I'm fine with it. But, they are further behind with HDR implementation with projectors that flat panel displays.

Bottom line: I'm sitting here ready to spend $6000 on a good HDR projector or HDR flat panel that will have all of the formats (codecs) necessary for 5 to 10 years and I don't feel confident that any such display exists right now. I would love to get a new HDR display and start enjoying the improvement in picture quality, but I'm not an early adopter. It still feels too much like we are STILL in the early adoption phase. So I'm instead going to spend my money on upgrading subwoofers and maybe get an Atmos receiver with some overhead speakers. As long as I get a receiver that has HDMI 2.1 boards, I think it should be good for hopefully 10 years.
 
S

Schrodinger23

Enthusiast
Ratings
9
#5
Now let's discuss sources, like streaming boxes for example. Finally, we have a streaming box that will do HDR10, Dolby Vision AND Dolby Atmos with the AppleTV 4k. But, it doesn't do HDR10+ at this point. And this streaming box does more than any others. Compare it with Roku, or Chrome Cast Ultra, or Nvidia Shield and you will see a hodge podge of different things supported. Again, this is ridiculous if we weren't still in the early adoption phase. So, that is basically where we are at now. If one of my streaming boxes needs to be replaced I will go with an AppleTV 4k, but if not I want to wait.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,010 5
#6
This is competition that is not good at all for those wanting to get a new HDR display. This year I'm looking into getting a display for around $6,000. Two possible routes: 1) a 77" OLED when the prices drop towards the end of this year and beginning of next year, or 2) A midline JVC projector.

When I buy a display I want it to last 10 years or so. In fact, I am at about the 10 year mark with my Pioneer Kuro and up until the last couple years, there was nothing that really bested it in performance in a light controlled room. The LG or Sony OLEDs will not support HDR10+. They will do Dolby Vision and HDR10, but I would be missing out on the dynamic metadata from HDR10+. In fact I am not aware of a display that can do all three. Then there is HLG, which we need for (probably) broadcast television for the most part. At this point if you go with an LG or Sony OLED it won't have HDR10+, so you will be missing the opportunity to see the Amazon Prime content in its fullest potential. If on the other hand you go with a display that can do HDR10+, then you will miss out on the much deeper Dolby Vision catalog content from Vudu, iTunes, UHD Blu-Ray, etc. This is ridiculous that it has been two or three years now and not a single display can do all HDR formats.

Then you get over to projectors and you can only get HDR10 and HLG in some HDR projectors. It seems like they are going to try to guess at different brightness levels through processing to try to get the best picture out of it. Almost trying to do what Dolby Vision or HDR10+ would do without the dynamic metadata. I understand the reasons why with the many more variables in a projector and I'm fine with it. But, they are further behind with HDR implementation with projectors that flat panel displays.

Bottom line: I'm sitting here ready to spend $6000 on a good HDR projector or HDR flat panel that will have all of the formats (codecs) necessary for 5 to 10 years and I don't feel confident that any such display exists right now. I would love to get a new HDR display and start enjoying the improvement in picture quality, but I'm not an early adopter. It still feels too much like we are STILL in the early adoption phase. So I'm instead going to spend my money on upgrading subwoofers and maybe get an Atmos receiver with some overhead speakers. As long as I get a receiver that has HDMI 2.1 boards, I think it should be good for hopefully 10 years.
Simple fact is, until the standards become standard it's a crap shoot. The real question would be, does any media currently use HDR10+? How much uses Dolby Vision? I know Vudu does, but I'm not sure of how much else does.

With that said, I'm there with you. I want whatever I purchase to support as many standards as possible, but until the manufacturers decide what they'll support, HDR10 is really the only one to worry about at this point as it is considered the "standard" right now.
 
S

snakeeyes

Senior Audioholic
Ratings
165 1
#7
With 4K, bigger is better and HDR10 is a must. Be sure you back up to your normal viewing distance when you compare a tv. I have a 65 in HDR10 KS8000 from 2016 but I should have waited for at least a 75 if not 85 in to come down into my price range. Good luck! :)
 
D

Dmantis10

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
15
#8
This is competition that is not good at all for those wanting to get a new HDR display. This year I'm looking into getting a display for around $6,000. Two possible routes: 1) a 77" OLED when the prices drop towards the end of this year and beginning of next year, or 2) A midline JVC projector.

When I buy a display I want it to last 10 years or so. In fact, I am at about the 10 year mark with my Pioneer Kuro and up until the last couple years, there was nothing that really bested it in performance in a light controlled room. The LG or Sony OLEDs will not support HDR10+. They will do Dolby Vision and HDR10, but I would be missing out on the dynamic metadata from HDR10+. In fact I am not aware of a display that can do all three. Then there is HLG, which we need for (probably) broadcast television for the most part. At this point if you go with an LG or Sony OLED it won't have HDR10+, so you will be missing the opportunity to see the Amazon Prime content in its fullest potential. If on the other hand you go with a display that can do HDR10+, then you will miss out on the much deeper Dolby Vision catalog content from Vudu, iTunes, UHD Blu-Ray, etc. This is ridiculous that it has been two or three years now and not a single display can do all HDR formats.

Then you get over to projectors and you can only get HDR10 and HLG in some HDR projectors. It seems like they are going to try to guess at different brightness levels through processing to try to get the best picture out of it. Almost trying to do what Dolby Vision or HDR10+ would do without the dynamic metadata. I understand the reasons why with the many more variables in a projector and I'm fine with it. But, they are further behind with HDR implementation with projectors that flat panel displays.

Bottom line: I'm sitting here ready to spend $6000 on a good HDR projector or HDR flat panel that will have all of the formats (codecs) necessary for 5 to 10 years and I don't feel confident that any such display exists right now. I would love to get a new HDR display and start enjoying the improvement in picture quality, but I'm not an early adopter. It still feels too much like we are STILL in the early adoption phase. So I'm instead going to spend my money on upgrading subwoofers and maybe get an Atmos receiver with some overhead speakers. As long as I get a receiver that has HDMI 2.1 boards, I think it should be good for hopefully 10 years.
I just retired my Kuro and I still think it did things better then my Sony Z9D which is supposed to be the best overall TV right now money can buy arguably.
10 years I think now is to much to ask out of these TV's OLED or LED I don't see them holding up that long. Maybe but I'm not holding my breath.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,010 5
#9
I just retired my Kuro and I still think it did things better then my Sony Z9D which is supposed to be the best overall TV right now money can buy arguably.
10 years I think now is to much to ask out of these TV's OLED or LED I don't see them holding up that long. Maybe but I'm not holding my breath.
The Z9D would be the best LCD, but not the best TV. I think at this point the Sony OLED is considered "the best", but OLED longevity is still in question.

Anything you get is going to have big shoes to fill compared to your Kuro. I'll have the same issue when my VT60 Panasonic gets retired.
 
S

son_of_a_pirate

Audiophyte
Ratings
1
#10
I'm still holding on to my last gen KURO and continue to be blown away related to how it performs against today's newest offerings. I'd like to move on and make the switch to 4K life (I have an Oppo UDP-405) but until this dust settles I guess I'll continue to enjoy THE best 1920X1080 monitor ever produced....IMO.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic General
Ratings
424 6 22
#11
I'm still holding on to my last gen KURO and continue to be blown away related to how it performs against today's newest offerings. I'd like to move on and make the switch to 4K life (I have an Oppo UDP-405) but until this dust settles I guess I'll continue to enjoy THE best 1920X1080 monitor ever produced....IMO.
Is the Oppo UDP-405 a new model? Where did you get it?
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Full Audioholic
Ratings
75 12 7
#12
The makers of the free, open-source HDR10+ format for high dynamic range video have begun a licensing and logo-certification program for the technology. Like Dolby Vision, HDR10+ uses dynamic metadata to optimize the brightness, contrast, and color of every scene. Unlike Dolby Vision, HDR10+ is free to use — no royalty fees required. Will the free licensing incentive of HDR10+ ultimately be the demise of Dolby Vision or will they still peacefully coexist?

View attachment 25184

Read: HDR10+ Licensing & Logo Certification
Yep, nothing better than free:)
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Full Audioholic
Ratings
75 12 7
#13
I'm still holding on to my last gen KURO and continue to be blown away related to how it performs against today's newest offerings. I'd like to move on and make the switch to 4K life (I have an Oppo UDP-405) but until this dust settles I guess I'll continue to enjoy THE best 1920X1080 monitor ever produced....IMO.
Its not about 4K, the differences of what the human eye can discern between 1080p and 4K are infinitesimal, given a certain size and seating distance factors. 4K for the most part is marketing hype. If 4K resolution was the be all end all, any cheap 4K LED set would noticeably blow your Kuro away, however that is not the case. What plasma owners are missing out on, in my opinion, which seems more important than 4K resolution is this HDR+ and Dolby Vision capabilities of current UHD TV sets, also WCG, which Plasma TV's don't have. You would be wise to hold on to your Kuro and tell all of this UHD stuff settles in a mature, its still early in the game. Folks purchasing UHD TV's now, be it QLED, LED, OLED etc. are still early adopters at this point.
 
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RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
435 6 1
#14
Its not about 4K, the differences of what the human eye can discern between 1080p and 4K are infinitesimal, given a certain size and seating distance factors. 4K for the most part is marketing hype. If 4K resolution was the be all end all, any cheap 4K LED set would noticeably blow your Kuro away, however that is not the case. What plasma owners are missing out on, in my opinion, which seems more important than 4K resolution is this HDR+ and Dolby Vision capabilities of current UHD TV sets, also WCG, which Plasma TV's don't have. You would be wise to hold on to your Kuro and tell all of this UHD stuff settles in a mature, its still early in the game. Folks purchasing UHD TV's now, be it QLED, LED, OLED etc. are still early adopters at this point.
This is technically correct however, there is compression, so I can see improvements in resolution from best to worst: UHD BD, UHD BD, and SDR BD. Although, the SDR BD and UHD streaming sometimes are switched for second place. HDR and color-space are more important.

Unfortunately, most reviews are looking at resolution and UHD highlights but not paying much attention to color space. Star Wars the Last Jedi was a huge disappointment to me. In the cinema, the red splashes in the sand was great imagery but on the BD and UHD BD, they are meh. I guess Disney wanted consistency between the formats color grade. Argh.

Spiderman Homecoming (Sony) and The Black Panther (Disney) have excellent color; the improvement over the companion BD is striking.

- Rich
 
RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
435 6 1
#15
So far, LG's position is that their dynamic tone-mapping provides a similar benefit.

There is a definite an improvement with dynamic tone-mapping engaged for titles with > 1000 nit static metadata but HDR10+ pre-processing should be better.
I'd like to see HDR+ added to LG, they support everything.
It may be just a cultural inability to cooperate with their arch rival.

Dolby Vision works extremely well (now that they fixed the black-level instability) and I'd like to see it on all titles.
It also supports up-converting HDR10 to BD but the Oppo UDP-20x and Apple TV 4K do not have an option to convert on HDR10 content. SDR to HDR conversion does not work for me.

- Rich
 
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son_of_a_pirate

Audiophyte
Ratings
1
#16
Is the Oppo UDP-405 a new model? Where did you get it?
Apologies, it's a UDP-205. Typo on my part. I received my email confirmation and link in late June and ordered that day in fear of it going away.

My prior player which I still have is an Onkyo BD-SP809 which I thought was amazing, the 205 destroys it.
 

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