Will Denon ever release another pre-pro?

[ggunnell]

10 - 40K

The short is that something happens in the octave over 20K that affects human perception of sound, mostly in spacial effects. I really understand if you think I'm nuts. On the offchance I'm not, that the B&W 'air' I love is connected with their tweeters 35k response, that on some recordings the eight 40kHz capable Onix ERTs in my room do something to move the recording venue into my room, on the offchance that real sonic holography will require over 20kHz pass band for best results, and with the memory of how we got told 44kHz was a high enough sampling rate for music recording, let's get that 20k-40k octave in the specs. Even running internals at a lowly 88kHz this should be possible.

Back to Denon, one reason the 5805 is not in my room is the weight. Lugging my 80 lb Rotel 1095's onto my rack is about my limit. 97 lbs is too much for me.

Maybe the problem is manufacturers ability to fab the custom DSP chips in the prepro sections. Perhaps if demand increased, they couldn't make anymore units anyway. So they maximize the return on the number of units they can make by option them up. Sheer speculation on my part.

 

[ssabripo]

With the ever changing technology this past year and the next 2-3 years, to me it boils down to features vs quality. I just bought a Cinenova Grande amplifier, and rather than spending another $5k on an anthem D2 or double that for a lexicon MC-12HD, I started shopping for an interim solution for the next 2 years or so......during this time, I've learned a LOT regarding the "sound" and feature set of Pre/Pros vs Receivers.

As example, just a few days ago I came back from auditioning the Pioneer Elite 84TXSi, Yamaha 2600 (testing the sound as baseline for the upcoming 2700), and denon 4306/3806, as well as a good Pre/pro in the Krell SCP71:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8417429&&#post8417429

Why doesnt Denon or Yamaha make any Pre/Pros? dont know the business reason, but I can tell you that for the mass market that they are aiming for, the solutions such as the RX-V2600/2700/4600/etc and the AVR-3806/4306/4806 are what they will be doing for years to come.......which leave those of us wanting a pure Pre/Pro solution with this option: buy one of these as a Pre/Pro at this price range, or save up and buy the higher end boutique Pre/Pros if you can muster it.

Take the $1000-$1500 market: If you look at Receivers with excellent pre-amp sections, and feature sets that will keep you over until the next gen formats are settled, you are left with just a select few: Yamaha 2600/2700, Denon 3806/4306, Pioneer Elite 84TXSi. They are the ones that offer all the HDMI swithching, upscaling/upconverting, 1080p capable, ethernet/usb/iPod connectivity, AutoEQ and Calibration (Auddessey, YPAO, MCACC, etc), and they offer excellent Pre-amp sections....so good in fact, that Dolby labs and many other researchers are starting to use them for sound processing instead of dedicated Pre/Pros:
http://www.audioholics.com/cedia/cedia2004/DolbyTrueHD.php
http://www.audioholics.com/cedia/cedia2004/DolbyDigitalPlus.php
(looks like the familiar Yammy RX-V2600 to me

In this same market segment ($1000-1500), you can buy a number of descent Pre/pros as well....Outlaw 970/990, used Arcam AVP300/700, Emotiva DMC-1, and others. Good sound, but after having listened to several of them, not better (if at all) than the recievers mentioned above, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, they lack the features....no ethernet, no AutoEQ + calibration, some have no Video HDMI switching and/or upscaling, etc.

Now, I will be the first to tell you that I have an open mind about all this, and more than once I've been suckered into buying something because of all the forum hoopla and hearsay (Sony SXRD anyone?), but I've come to learn to try things on my own. Yes, these pre/pros are good, but receivers in this range have equal and many times better pre-amp sound, AND have a much larger feature set...... You really have to listen to an Anthem D2 or Krell SCP71 pre/pro to really tell a big leap in sound quality.

so my question to the OP is actually this: why wait for Denon/Yamaha/etc to release a Pre/pro? they are already here! get the upcoming Yamaha 2700 or the current Denon 3806/4306, or Pio Elite 84TSXi, and you have the Pre/Pro that you want....and in 2-3 years when DD-HD, DTS-HD, 1440p, and other formats are "standard", then keep the beefy hefty amp that you bought, and just keep upgrading to your hearts content on these covert "Pre/Pro"s that we call Receivers

 

[nav]

... and with the memory of how we got told 44kHz was a high enough sampling rate for music recording...

See the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem (see "aliasing"). Basically, at a 44100 Hz sampling rate (as used in CDDA) only frequencies up to 22050 Hz can be accurately represented.

 

[rsachs]

Yes, They are working on it

I too have thought about this, and so I specifically asked Jeff Talmadge, the Denon brand manager this question, both in email and in person at the HE2006 show.

The short is: They're working on it. They recognize the competition, particularly Onkyo's Integra, Arcam, Anthem. But he would not give any specifics as to time to market.

I myself just picked up a 4806 to replace my Onkyo TX900NR. Going with separate amps, such as ATI, Cinenova, or other heavy hitters is probably where I'm going.

 

[ssabripo]

I....
I myself just picked up a 4806 to replace my Onkyo TX900NR. Going with separate amps, such as ATI, Cinenova, or other heavy hitters is probably where I'm going.

hmm...interesting. just curious, why would you go with the 4806 instead of the 4306 if you are going to pair it with a high-end amp? The only REAL gain the 4806 had over the 4306 was with THX ultra2 certification and post processing, and the amp section (individual x-formers, etc)

 

[rsachs]

Sssbripo

I got the 4806 at a great price for a demo unit.

You say you have the BAT VK 200. I just bought that as well for the front channels.

Have you ever had any problems with the BAT? E.g., no output at all?

rsachs