Why the Axiom bashing??

MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
I find that kind of interesting to ponder, because I recall sean olive saying that the Harman test reference room, doesn't use revel salons OR jbl everests. They use 3X JBL LSR 6332, which would be around 4.5k per trio and is their top of the line studio monitor.

Id love to hear his thought on the matter.
I remember reading that from his blog a long time ago. The 6332 paired with 4 JBL subs. I'd be curious if that is what they still use in the current Harman listening room.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
What gets me is that the people who are being really critical of Axiom these days (and this includes Gene) are acting in this weird way where they seem as though they don't "get" why people are wondering where all the "Axiom bashing" came from all of a sudden!

The problem is the complete 180! Gene himself used to speak so highly of Axiom speakers. He used to recommend them highly (although I don't think I've ever seen Gene review a product without saying "highly recommended" in both the intro and the conclusion - even when it's high priced Kimber Cables that offer zero performance gains over bulk monoprice speaker wire).

Now Gene (and others) are saying that Axiom's speakers are poorly engineered, poorly designed, "cutting corners" to save costs (heck, Gene's writing a whole series of articles based on Axiom's "cutting costs") and harping on them about their design and marketing methods.

Well which is it? THAT'S where the confusion is coming from!

Are we supposed to look at all the GLOWING Axiom reviews (several right here on Audioholics) and then somehow be easily able to understand why they're now essentially being called "crap" in every possible way?

How are we NOT supposed to be confused?

It just seems like Gene and the other critics don't "get" that, or they are purposely ignoring their former glowing praise. It's weird. It smacks of there being something OTHER than actual listening and evaluation of the sound quality going on. It SEEMS like it all goes back to the infamous subwoofer shootout where Axiom didn't want to participate. Ever since then, the Axiom bashing has come into popularity - despite the fact that, like others have pointed out, nothing about Axiom's speakers has actually changed! And yet the critical response to them has done a complete 180 and gone from "they're a superb value with awesome sound quality" to "they're designed, engineered and made poorly and they're a rip off and a con and they'll kick your dog!"

Weird.
 
Last edited:
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
From the Client testimonials on this site.

"Axiom has been advertising with Audioholics for several years, from when they were a 'hobby' site right up through to the present incarnation as the web's leading pursuer of 'truth in audio'. Gene DellaSala and his whole team are a pleasure to work with - focused, receptive, flexible and prompt. They genuinely care about how each new marketing initiative performs for advertisers - a too-rare find these days. Top notch service, qualified audience, timely topics and a consistent attention to quality of both content and delivery make this marketing buy an easy choice for Axiom."

- Amie Colquhoun, Axiom Audio
So I guess they NO longer advertise here of if they still do , why would they after the basing they get. Since they appear not to be, it appears the 'fire away syndrome' is in effect since Axiom pulled their advertisement dollars away.
 
Last edited:
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
From the Client testimonials on this site.



So I guess they NO longer advertise here of if they still do , why would they after the basing they get. Since they appear not to be, it appears the 'fire away syndrome' is in effect since Axiom pulled their advertisement dollars away.
Axiom pulled away because their subs don't compete. End of Story. Period.

AH sub shoot out was going to show this and this irked Axiom. Hence the falling out. But don't just take any ones word for it. Ask Haoleb how his Axiom compared to a single Kappa Perfect/Behringer sub build.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
Axiom pulled away because their subs don't compete. End of Story. Period
so Axioms equipment is inferior per Audioholics. I don't own any of their stuff, but that's good information to know
 
U

u2generator

Junior Audioholic
Axiom pulled away because their subs don't compete. End of Story. Period.

AH sub shoot out was going to show this and this irked Axiom. Hence the falling out. But don't just take any ones word for it. Ask Haoleb how his Axiom compared to a single Kappa Perfect/Behringer sub build.
So their subs are crap--they stop advertising--and now, all of a sudden, all of their speakers are crap?

I'm just trying to understand. I bought my original 5.1 system (with a HSU sub) from Axiom mostly based on reviews and glowing recommendations from this site.

Can I believe no internet information?
 
gtpsuper24

gtpsuper24

Full Audioholic
Gene is upset that Axiom pulled out all that advertising money. Audioholics is a business they need money and will do whatever they can to get it. Its funny now all of the sudden Aperion is the best thing ever, just look at his reviews of their products, and the giant advertisting banners Aperion has on this site. Before this Axiom bashing they had Axiom banners all over big ones to the right side. And guess what Genes and AH's review of Axiom products was that they are the best thing ever or close to it. We hear so much on here that Axioms centers are horrible.

From 2008 Audioholic review ray "The VP-150 center channel sounded very natural: male and female voices were unrestrained and blended perfectly with the rest of the speakers in the system."

Same article "The Axiom EP-600 subwoofer is a monster. It is very musical, can play lower than we can hear, and when called upon can wreck the house with gut-wrenching high SPL. Let's not forget the gorgeous plate amplifier; it is a true audiophile subwoofer with impressive slam."

"The Axiom M80ti speakers were the stars of the show. Their effortless dynamic capability, almost liquid midrange, tight and deep bass, and their uncanny ability to disappear, had me shaking my head in disbelief. Was I really listening to a speaker of such small stature and price?"

"The Axiom speaker systems I reviewed were absolutely unbelievable."
 
gtpsuper24

gtpsuper24

Full Audioholic
Quotes from Gene August 25, 2010:
"I walked away so impressed with the Axiom blind test procedure that I asked Axiom to produce a switch box for me along with sending some samples of their grille cloth which is much less lossy that the stuff we used for our recent $1k/pair floorstanding speaker faceoff. I probably wouldn’t have been so appreciative of their efforts had we not attempted to conduct our own controlled blind test comparisons at Audioholics in the past."

Go check out some of his post on here and AVS about what he thinks of this now, you know since Axiom is shelling out money to Audioholics. Yeah no wonder people are confused.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Let's clear up a few facts here:
1. I am not Axiom bashing. I have always pointed out flaws in their products just like I have with any other manufacturer. In fact my A-1400 review showed that their amp was unstable and even caught fire. I still liked the product and hoped they would fix those issues. Instead, they shunned my review and discontinued the product. They didn't like my review of their outdoor speakers b/c I discussed the cabinet resonance, the poorly executed crossovers and the ported design that supposed to be "weatherproof". Despite that, I still liked and still use that product. It's not perfect but it suites it purpose well.

2. I never reviewed an Axiom center channel, just their bookshelf speakers, and a sub. I pointed out design limitations there and still feel they were all good products. I don't speak for my other reviewers so they are welcome to their opinions.

3. Yes Axiom left as an advertiser. It sucks but it happens. We gain and lose advertisers all the time. Life goes on.

4. Its true Axiom refused to send us a sub to review b/c they felt groundplane technique was flawed and that Paul had "peculiar" views of distortion despite the fact his measurements were done per CEA which is well accepted in the industry. To date, there has been no 3rd party review of their EP800 with measurements which I find a bit perplexing.

5. Axiom didn't like all of the negative comments in our reviews (especially Tom's reviews and podcasts). Each time we published a new review that wasn't glowing enough, they pulled back on advertising.

6. Axiom pulled advertising b/c they felt our reviews were too negative of their products, which is the exact opposite of what people are claiming here. They absolutely hated our 2010 $1k floorstanding speaker faceoff, despite we did it blind. It was at that point that they said they would never participate in a faceoff again. It is also at that point when Alan Lofft starting messaging their customers that our shootout methodology was flawed and so are groundplane measurements of subs.

7. I suppose the years of them trying to brainwash me that better speakers can't be made regardless of price, finally wore on me and its come out a bit in the tone of my reviews of their products and commentary here.

7. I am happy that we now have over 60% of our advertising done by a 3rd party ad agency. My goal is to one day make that 100% but I am sure there will still be weekend warriors here that will cry foul play. To them, I offer you to start your own A/V publication if you think you can run one better with more integrity.

8. I very much like the blind test procedure Axiom does at their facility. However, I take issue with them calling it a DBT and also writing their own shootouts using their own employees as the listening panel to declare their speakers sound better or equally good to anything else on the market regardless of price.

With all said and done, I still feel they overall Axiom has a good product line and excellent customer service, but others have come along in the last 4-5 years that IMO outgun them (IE. SVS and Aperion as example). The Aperion Verus line is quite a trendsetter for online speakers now IMO.

The loudspeaker articles we are writing don't focus on Axiom or any other brand. In fact, the first part made an example of a different company with the SEAS driver. You will note we don't even mention brands in these tech articles.

You can continue to make accusations about advertising and question our integrity. This seems to happen a few times/year (mostly by new forum posters) since I started the site over 11 years ago. I will continue to produce the best content my team and I know how to do, including the most accurate and comprehensive test reports. Audioholics will continue to align itself with professional organizations like Electronic House and CE Pro. We will continue to work with test equipment manufacturers to build the most comprehensive test equipment and test procedures any A/V publication can build.

If you don't like the tone of our comments, there are plenty of other websites that give nothing but glowing reviews of ALL products they review ALL the time. Some of them even write reviews without product in hand. I encourage you to read those sites.

However, I don't labor this site daily and pay the bills daily to have either myself or my staff criticized especially when all of the content we provide for you is FREE of charge. I hope you all consider this with any followup posts that are made on this topic.

Moderators, please keep this post bookmarked for a reference for the next time someone posts a similar thread. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
So their subs are crap--they stop advertising--and now, all of a sudden, all of their speakers are crap?

I'm just trying to understand. I bought my original 5.1 system (with a HSU sub) from Axiom mostly based on reviews and glowing recommendations from this site.

Can I believe no internet information?
We don't know if the sub is as you put it. Was it reviewed here? No. The test never happened. Perhaps their sub was not meant to compete with the others in the test, and it seems they have a different opinion of testing protocol of subs.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
.... Life goes on.

... Thanks.
Yep, the universe keeps on marching along;):D
Cannot please everyone all the time or maybe not even some of the time either.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
However, I don't labor this site daily and pay the bills daily to have either myself or my staff criticized. I hope you all consider this with any followup posts that are made on this topic.
Totally understandable, Gene. For another perspective, though, I'd like to mention that I for one respect you and this site more because you allow criticism. I think that it shows a good nature on your part, and I also think that it allows for more open and honest communication. It gets stuff like this topic out in the open, as opposed to people maybe just thinking it to themselves and writing your reviews off as another form of advertising. I think that your above post was excellently written and summarized the situation in a way that is easily understood. I also think that your responses in this thread and in the one about high fidelity speakers are even tempered, which impresses me as I would probably tend to be more defensive in the same situation.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
It's nice to really understand the issue here with Axiom for me anyway. But it's awkward when on the same site you read good reviews about a manufacturer and then you read other unfavorable comments about the same manufacturer. Makes a reader question the validity of the quality from that manufacturer when on other sites the product from that manufacturer get good reviews. :confused:

But life goes on

PS: Excellent post and dialog.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
It's nice to really understand the issue here with Axiom for me anyway. But it's awkward when on the same site you read good reviews about a manufacturer and then you read other unfavorable comments about the same manufacturer. Makes a reader question the validity of the quality from that manufacturer when on other sites the product from that manufacturer get good reviews.
Just b/c Axiom is over sensitive to positive press, doesn't take away the fact that they offer good product and services to their customers. They offer a very generous trial period for their products so if you don't like them its relatively painless to send them back at little to no out of pocket expenses to you.

Just be aware of some of their psuedo-science which can be said about virtually EVERY manufacturer.

It's very challenging to offer detailed and objective reviews that maintain credibility with the readers but also doesn't offend owners of the products or the manufacturers themselves. I can count on both hands (and still have a few fingers left to spare) the manufacturers that advertise with us that really don't beat us up when we give an overly negative review of their products, Yamaha, RBH and Aperion being the most obvious examples that comes to mind.

This is why I am so thrilled when our ad agency sells big ads to companies like Bose, Best Buy, Samsung and Verizon as it takes us completely out of the loop and relieves any such pressures associated with positive press to maintain advertising. All magazines face this hence why most give nothing but positive press all the time regardless of actual product performance.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
It's very challenging to offer detailed and objective reviews that maintain credibility with the readers but also doesn't offend owners of the products or the manufacturers themselves. I can count on both hands (and still have a few fingers left to spare) the manufacturers that advertise with us that really don't beat us up when we give an overly negative review of their products, Yamaha, RBH and Aperion being the most obvious examples that comes to mind.
I know you guys are above board with your reviews.

That all that counts.

Carry on. :)
 
MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
The difference about Audioholics reviews and other review sites is Gene actually discusses design trade-offs and not just regurgitating the manufacturers marketing campaign in the writeup. Axiom is NOT the only products where he discusses poor trade-offs or limitations within a design. Some companies have actually improved their products because of their reviews.

Gene has mentioned many times before based on a review of a product that he has recommended many manufacturer to make changes. Some just don't let there ego get in the way.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top